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V8 Dakotas
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jclaus98
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/26/2006
06:57:16
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 Subject: Dakota 6speed???
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I've got a '98 Dak, 4x4, cc, 5.2L, 5speed, and I've got a 5.9L that I'm rebuilding that will end up in my truck. My question is if anyone has heard of anybody mating the new Dakota 6speeds to the 5.9L? I know the genIII's come with them behind the 4.7L, but would like to know if anyone has made it work behind a 5.9L. Also, if it is possible to somehow mate the 6speed from the vipers to a 5.9L and still use a t-case behind it??? Anybody?
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modain
GenIII
6/27/2006
19:48:28
|  RE: Dakota 6speed???
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My understanding is the 5.2L and 5.9L engines are balanced externally (via the flywheel) and internally, respectively. You'd need the flywheel from a 5.9L engine that came with a stick - something off of a Ram 1500 from earler years. Search around the various websites for the specifics of what you'd need.
I'm pretty sure you could make the new Getrag-238 work on your truck if it has the same bellhousing pattern as the 5.9L engine. But you'll probably need a lot of time and fabrication to get everything right.
Parts (not the complete list) that would need to be found are flywheel, clutch disk/pressure plate, throwout bearing, pilot bearing, clutch fork, slave cylinder, start, mounts, shift lever, yoke, driveshaft, neutral and backup sensors. There is most likely more, but this is enough to start with.
For giggles I have looked into what it would be to change out my NV3500 for this tranny (in the event mine dies) and found that a lot of the parts are common. I could do it for not too much fabrication.
What's your left foot doing?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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Kowalski
GenIII
6/28/2006
15:56:09
|  RE: Dakota 6speed???
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I believe you have that backwards - the 5.2 is balanced internally; 5.9 externally.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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modain
GenIII
6/28/2006
16:16:01
|  RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Yeah, I was wrong about which was interally balanced (I wasn't too sure). But at least I was right regarding the flywheel. :-)
What's your left foot doing?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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jclaus98
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/28/2006
17:58:29
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Guys, thank you very much for your response, I appriciate all the feedback, I will continue to research the topic and see what I can find out. One last thing if you would though, does anybody here know where I can get a Getrag 238??? Aside from ordering one direct from the dealership, there are none on ebay, and my local recycler doesn't have any yet, I'm assuming they are too new? Does anyone know where I can get one? Also, I've noticed alot of posts, primarily on other formus, bashing the new tranny. So posts are rediculous, stupid people posting stupid things. But, others concern me, most of all people talking about it being "sticky" between 1st and 2nd. Anybody here experience anything like that? Sure would appriciate anything anybody wants to contribute. Thanks.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2006
18:50:10
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Message:
i found one on www.car-part.com at a yard in Arkansas for $900.00 and there were a few.
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modain
GenIII
6/28/2006
21:44:33
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Message:
Depending on your tire size and rear axle gearing you may not even need to use 1st gear under "normal" circumstances. 1st has a 4.23:1 ratio, second is 2.53:1. This might mitigate the "sticky" 1-2 shift you mention (if it's accurate).
As for as strength, both trannies are rated by the vendors to support 300ft/lb input torque. I'm sure they can handle more torque, but just how much more safely (read: not blowing up) is not absolutely known. A number of folks run more than 300TQ through their NV-3500s without problems.
3.55++++3.92++++GR-238++NV-3500+3.55++++3.92
15.0165+16.5816+4.23++++4.01+++14.2355++15.7192
8.9815++9.9176++2.53++++2.32++++8.236+++9.0944
5.9285++6.5464++1.67++++1.4+++++4.97++++5.488
4.3665++4.8216++1.23++++1+++++++3.55++++3.92
3.55++++3.92++++1+++++++0.73++++2.5915++2.8616
2.8045++3.0968++0.79
What's your left foot doing?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2006
22:51:06
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Message:
Dont forget there's 2 types of nv-3500, a regular version rated at (300ft lbs) and a heavy duty version rated at (340ft lbs)
If you look at the gearing of the getrag 238 even in 6th gear the overdrive gear doesn't go as low as the nv-3500 in 5th gear. That to me makes the getrag useless!!!
Anthony
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modain
GenIII
6/29/2006
00:59:09
|  RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Message:
(I wish the "blockquote" html directive worked properly so I wouldn't have had to put in those + to space out the numbers...)
Yeah, I don't like that about the overdrive either. But, I do like the gear splits before direct drive a little better for towing than what the NV-3500 gives.
Both of tranny's 2nd and 3rd gears are pretty close together. But the GR-238 slips another gear in between my 3rd and 4th that I'd like to have.
Sometimes when towing my toy hauler my 4th gear (1:1) is not enough gear for more than a slight grade unless I am running 3200RPM or more. That puts me at 70MPH which I'm not aways able to do because of traffic. So to keep the speed I drop to 3rd. I run aroung 4000RPM (62ish MPH) which really eats the gas considering the weight, speed, drag, and gravity. 4500RPM gets me to 70MPH. It runs like a raped ape, but my fuel consumption must be around 4MPG. But, pretty much nothing slows me down at that speed because I am well into the powerband.
*If* I had the GR-238 gearing I could be turning 3500RPM (just past peak torque) and be doing 62ish MPH. Right where I'd like to be on those hill climbs...
So if it had the same overdrive gearing it could be just about perfect.
What's your left foot doing?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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jclaus98
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/29/2006
02:12:35
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Message:
All excellent input guys, again thank you very much. I sure wish we could get somebody here who has done it to comment. As far as the "sticky" between 1st and 2nd, I mean that people have posted that the tranny is actually difficult to shift from 1st to 2nd. I've seen people post that it is slow, difficult and "notchy" between 1st/2nd. That is what really concerns me most. I mean, when I wanna get on it in mine, it takes a while to get from 1st to 2nd, but that's just because the stick is 2ft long, but from what other people are posting about the 238, it sounds almost as if it wants to grind or something between those two? I dunno, just really would like to hear from someone who has one and has used it, somebody who really knows trucks and maybe even someone who has driven and used both trannies and knows what they both feel like driving them.
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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6/29/2006
08:38:51
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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a lot of people claimed the NV3500 was tough to go from 1st to 2nd. but i have no trouble at all with mine. been shifting it for over 3yrs.
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
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6/29/2006
19:44:32
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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I agree with Daddio, I had no problems with 1st to 2nd or any gear shifting wise. And I've had my Dak for 6.5yrs.
Only thing that pisses me off sometimes when I'm sitting at a light and try to shift into first gear but it's locked out. Then I have to shift into 2nd or 3rd and then back to 1st for it to go into gear.
If I were to do a tranny swap I'm going with a T-56 viper tranny!!!
Anthony
www.geocities.com/dak2nv/
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modain
GenIII
6/29/2006
20:31:45
|  RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Message:
Isn't a "problem" with the T-56 something like it has a low GVWR, but high input power (not that high input power is a problem). This would make it unsuitable to use the truck as anything other than a racer, right?
What's your left foot doing?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/29/2006
21:27:01
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Message:
I dont tow anything so the tranny would be perfect for me as a street and track truck.
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jclaus98
Dodge Dakota
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6/29/2006
21:27:02
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Yeah, I'm with modain, I think as far as practicality for a 4wheel drive truck, the Viper tranny would be a bit much. Now, if you had a 2wd Dakota and wanted it to scream, that's when I'd use a Viper tranny. I'm looking for something with a bit more versatility, something that will get up and go, not leave me in the dust of a corolla or something like that, but that will also pull a trailer, climb up a mountain and get some decent gas milage while its at it. I've just got some deciding to do on whether I wanna stick with my trusty old NV3500, or venture into new uncharted waters with a Getrag 238. At any rate, thanks for all the input guys.
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Anthony
Dodge Dakota
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6/29/2006
22:54:01
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Good luck on what you decide!!! Keep us posted as how it works out if you go with the getrag
Anthony
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modain
GenIII
6/30/2006
02:07:40
|  RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Message:
I second the motion! Given the right combination of time, money, and need I'd like to go this route if it's feasible. Maybe I'll go test drive a 6 speed Dakota (probably won't find one with a V8 though) to see just how the tranny behaves.
Don't worry. I'm not gonna jump from my beloved GenIII to a GenIV. I have 19 more payments and it's all mine!
What's your left foot doing?
=========================================
2002 Graphite QC SLT Plus, 4.7L, NV3500, Superchips 3715, 3.92 LSD, loads o'fun...
2001 Patriot Blue Durango SLT, 4.7L, 45RFE, Superchips 3715, 3.55 Open (for now)
1999 Forest Green Dakota RC Sport, 2.5L, NV1500, 3.55 Open
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V8 MANual
GenIV
6/30/2006
08:46:33
|  RE: Dakota 6speed???
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When I test drove my '05 with six-speed it was like a totally different truck than my '02 5-speed. I love the notchiness and more direct feel. I've never had a missed or difficult shift between first and second. However, fifth & sixth are different stories. You have to put a bit of pressure on the shifter to the right to find those gears; they don't come naturally like the first four. And WHAT IS WITH REVERSE NEXT TO OVERDRIVE? This tranny was built in Germany, but they couldn't follow VW's simple reverse next to first. From reverse the next gear selection is first - they should always be together. I'm always embarressed when I show my backup lights to somebody while attempting to speed shift at 120mph from fifth to sixth!
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jclaus98
Dodge Dakota
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6/30/2006
14:39:26
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Message:
Finally! Somebody who has used both of them! Thank you V8manual! So, you don't have any problems getting from first to second, how is first? Is it more of a granny gear, how often do you use it? How is your 0-60 time with this tranny? How is the RPM drop between gears 1-5 and how is 6th gear as far as RPM when your cruising on the freeway compared to your old 5speed? That is probably my biggest concern, I wanna be tachin like 1200 when I'm barrelling down the freeway at 90mph. So many questions for you, so glad you jumped in here!
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PB
Dodge Dakota
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6/30/2006
18:14:51
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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i think maybe you guys should think about an nv 5600 its a little heavy but heavy never hurt anything
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jclaus98
Dodge Dakota
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6/30/2006
18:20:32
| RE: Dakota 6speed???
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Yeah, NO, see I'm looking for something that will fit in my truck! I would have to cut out the floorboard to fit and NV5600 underneath my truck! Thanks but I'm looking for a direct replacement tranny, something that won't need a crapload of fabrication to fit. I'm really hoping V8MANual is able to respond with some feedback to my questions, cause I think that's the route I will eventually take.
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