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PlowinDak47
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2006
21:35:20
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 Subject: Bad Runnin 4.7
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Hey guys! I just had a major issue with my 4.7L! The truck has 115,000kms on it, fairly low miles for a 2000 Dakota.. I went to leave my driveway today and it stalled.... It started back up but it was running very poor.. Like it was only hitting on 4 cylinders... I drove it a bit thinking it was fuel flooding (it used to do that alot before I changed the plugs) and it didn't get any better... I got a service engine code, PO202, injector 2 malf. I checked fuel pressure and flow and its all good.. I'm thinking it skipped a chain or something but it really doesn't seem logical? Is this the sort of thing that could or might happen to a 4.7L or am I just thinking weird? I just want some possible insight before I go yanking the rocker covers off it and start checking things out...
Also.. I'll be honest with yous, I pound the living snot out of this truck, 400 foot burnouts and dry pavement donuts at 5500rpm aren't uncommon.. I know that doesn't help the cause but I'm not too concerned... THanks for the help in advance guys!
Mark
00 Dakota Sport 4x4, 4.7L Gibson headers, Flowmaster catback, K&N FIPK
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
5/16/2006
23:18:27
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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Maybe one of the injectors got plugged.
It can happen.
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PlowinDak47
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2006
23:20:04
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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nope, they're all intact and hooked up... I heard these things are bad for blowing cracks into the intake maniflds?
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Kowalski
GenIII
5/17/2006
15:29:00
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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Did you take it out and test it ? I've never heard of a 4.7 intake manifold failing. Might want to check the cat, could have been fouled when you were "fuel flooding".
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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PlowinDak47
Dodge Dakota
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5/17/2006
18:31:51
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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It has too much zing to have a plugged cat I think.... but I still think its running on 4 cylinders.. I just took the fuel pump out and checked the sock and filte ad it seems okay...
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
5/17/2006
19:57:03
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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When I meant a plugge dinjector, I didn't mean it becoming unPLUGGED like electrically.
Injectors can like plug up inside them without any warning.
Does it miss at an idle, like the engine is vibrating?
If so unplug one injector at a time while it is running. Whichever one does NOT make a difference in idle is either PLUGGED, or the spark plug is fouled.
Anyway. Although I was told that it can't be done, I have removed and cleaned injectors on more than one vehicle. Using high pressure air form the compressor and pulsing 12VDC to the injectors. It has worked each time and ran liek new after cleaning.
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PlowinDak47
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2006
00:13:17
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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The engine is running VERY poor, it won't even stay idled, I just did some diagnostics with my OTC genisys and got a PO202 (Malf 2nd injector) It also is reading rich on the exhaust though there is no black smoke, until I really watched it while mashing the loud pedal... Its really quite odd.. The TPS and IAC both read fine, the AIT reads fine, the map sensor, fine, all voltages within spec according to my scan tool... The only other thing I can think is a malf. temperature sensor, but it reads extremely close to the gauge...Its like a massive vacuum leak, thats what I keep coming back to.. I have a K&N FIPK on it and I can't hear if there might be a leak due to the loud nature of the FIPK... It almost sounds like a burnt or cracked valve, the way its running in the intake port.. but I can't say for sure... I'm about stumped and ready to take it to the dealer :(
Thanks a ton guys!
00 Dakota Sport 4x4, 4.7L Gibson headers, Flowmaster catback, K&N FIPK
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
5/19/2006
00:01:48
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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Hmm... well if one cyclinder is lean (no fuel) it will make the O2 sensor freak a little and maybe add too much to the other injectors.
If it's got no spark, fouled plug, etc that could do it as well.
The easiest thing I ever do is unplug either an injector, or coil pack while the engine is running.
Each GOOD cylinder will make a difference when you unplug a coil or injector and miss even worse.
The one cylinder that does NOT make any difference is your dead one!
Then it's up to 3 things.
1) Compression. Burnt valve, broken rocker, bad lifter, etc...
-Can use a compression gauge to test that.
2) No Spark. Since this is not old school, you can't pull a wire and see if it has spark to ground. But you COULD pull the plug and look at it and make sure it is not fouled or damaged.
You could also easily swap a plug and coil pack with another one and see if ther same one misses, or if the OTHER cylinder now misses.
3) Do the same test for the injector. Switch it with another one. Repeat test to see which cyclinder is dead.
You could diagnose the problem with no new parts, scan tool, etc.
I've fixed several fuel injected engines for bad coils, injectors doing logic tests like that.
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PlowinDak47
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2006
01:39:45
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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I'll run through it again in the morning but everything seems to check out on the scan tool, you can monitor each individual injector and with the chrysler 2.0 chip in the OTC unit you can kill each coil separately and theres 4 dead cylinders.. so I haven't checked the the compression, but it doesn't sound loose when cranking it over.. usually you can pick out a dead or low cylinder just by the way it sounds when it cranks...
by the way, graphitedak, I wanted to ask how you like your 4.56 gears.. I think I'm gonna swap some into mine.. The 3.55 gears with the 31x10.5's seems like a bit of a dog compared to with a 28 inch tire on it like my buddys R/T.. Though my truck will ruin his R/T in the 1/4, his has a better 60 foot..
I just am concnerned that I might have too much of a traction problem since mine already has trouble staying hard planted shifting into 2nd gear...
Thanks a ton
Mark
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
5/19/2006
22:38:41
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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If you have 31's, the 4.56's will be AWESOME!
I LOVE them. Kind of cool to hear some revs going through parking lots and all that. Makes setting off alarms even better!
The true dual 2 1/2" exhaust helps there too.
Well, if you have more than one dead cylinder, I'd be blaming the injectors.
Every time I've had a vehicle plug up, it was more than one injector by time i noticed it a lot.
It should be easy to pull them injectors.
Then use a trigger nozzle on your air compressor and shoot a good 125PSI of air into the inlet.
Take some small allegator test clip type wires and connect one pin of the injector to the + of your 12V batter. Connect the other pin to a test lead and leave hanging.
Here is where the SKILL comes into play :)
While holing the air into the inlet, with ONE HAND take that loose test lead and momentarily touch it to ground which will open the injector.
Only hold it on for a quick pulse. But do it over and over just tapping the lead to ground pulsing the injector.
Some times I will spray some cleaner in the injector and repeat.
Every time I have done this I watched the spray pattern out of the injectors open back up and the injectors worked like new.
You have nothing to loose.
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PlowinDak47
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2006
00:28:01
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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Goofy Dodge doesn't put a fuel filter inline on these trucks that I can see.. Am I missing it somewhere along the lines?? Its so rich.. I put new plugs in it just for sh*ts and giggles, the plugs were black as hell..
I can hear a weird noise coming from the front of the engine.. Are these bad for spitting timing chain tensioners or anything goofy like that??
Thanks alot I appreciate your input graphitedak and Kowalski..
I am going to run a GSM spintech true dual system I think as soon as I figure out whats wrong with the truck, and definitely 4.56 gears.. I'd hate to have to go back to Chevy over something simple like a PCM or a bad ground or something stupid!
:)
Mark
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Kowalski
GenIII
5/22/2006
17:31:21
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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Fuel filter is at the start of the line - in the tank. A dirty fuel filter wouldn't make you run rich though...
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
5/22/2006
20:20:17
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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I'd STILL find which cyclinders are dead at idle. Switcht he injectors around and see if them are the culprit.
Plugged injhectors WILL cause the PCM to wig out, over rich the working ones, etc...
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Plowindak47
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2006
20:56:07
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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But wouldn't the cylinders with plugged injectors be leaned out?? The thing is rich on all of them.. And there seems to be like 5 or 6 cylinders dead at idle
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
5/23/2006
02:07:57
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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I don't think it would idle with 5 or 6 dead.
Maybe some are completely dead, and a few others just weak.
That is how it has been when I found plugged injectors on vehicles. Maybe one is completely plugged, a few others partially.
Try ignoring the scan tool. And have the truck idling on it's own and unplug each coil pack or injector, whichever is easier, to see which cyclinder make little or no difference. Then pull them injectors.
Once you find a DEAD cyclinder, swap an injector with a known GOOD cyclinder and see if the dead one is now the one that used to be good, and vice versa. Then you will know for sure.
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Lurkin
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
10:02:33
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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You'd be surprised had bad an engine idles/runs with one dead/dying cylinder. I had one cam follower off on the HO cam install, and I thought that the timing had been knocked a few teeth off.
Start checking the simple shi-tuff before you look at the difficult things. Most of the time, it's not the complex answer you'd expect.
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Plowindak47
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2006
17:32:22
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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I can shut down 5 cylinders by unplugging the coils with no change in idle quality... Also with the gibson headers, on cold startup only 3 of the tubes get hot righ off the start.. I'm starting to wonder if maybe I have a bad PCM?
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runninamuk
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2006
15:33:32
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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I had the same problem. I had a coil that went bad.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
5/25/2006
21:41:50
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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The 4.7 has EIGHT coils.
Well. Now that you KNOW which 3 run GOOD for sure.
Take and swap injectors form the THREE WORKING ones to THREE that you know do NOT work.
If the the THREE that work are now a different THREE, then you know it was injectors.
I have actually had a guy run a scanner on a Chevy with it running telling all sorts of cyclinder misfires, etc.
It was a work truck. i had no time to leave it for repairs yet.
I took it home and did the unplug of injector trick to test bad cyclinders.
Removed and cleaned those injectors.
Truck ran like brand new until I got rid of the truck (was a company truck too).
It is weird, how a few injectors will plug up badly in a short times notice.
If it isn't somehting that simple, then maybe you have a PCM problem.
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Plowindak47
Dodge Dakota
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6/02/2006
00:08:14
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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I figured out what it was!!! The tone ring for the crank sensor had broken and smashed the sensor knocking it all out of whack, the whole thing let go the other day.. Basically it was giving it a late timing condition...
Unfortunately I just finished fixing it up, on monday, and it ran better than it ever has before.. I took it out and pounded it a bit, laid down some black marks and on my way up to Elmvale last night I got sideswiped at about 100km/h (60mph) by a ford focus.. Now let me tell you.. What an accident..!!! My truck ended up on the roof of the car, totalling the left front corner of my truck and definitely totalling the other car... Worst of all, my dad who holds my insurance policy let the insurance on my truck lapse... SO now my truck is totalled with about $3500 damage, and no insurance! What luck is that eh!?
I'll probably be parting it out, its got gibson headers, an FIPK, and some other doodads if anyone is interested....
Hope you guys are having better luck than I am!
Thanks a ton for your input guys
Mark
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
6/03/2006
01:02:20
| RE: Bad Runnin 4.7
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OMG you are kidding????!!!!!
That sucks sh*t! You got it fixed and now you can't drive it???
Anyway, how did you replace the tone ring?
Doesn't the entire crank need to be removed???
Maybe you can fix it. But if you don't, give me a sweet deal on them headers :p
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