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pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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5/07/2002
22:11:54
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 Subject: the 4.7...what really works?
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Okay guys I'm looking for a simple intake-exhaust upgrade. No home brews, no custom exhaust work. What bolt-on intake and exhaust create the most power(horsepower and torque)? Any one have dyno #s to back up their claims? I've heard the single in single out gibson is making the most, does anyone refute this? How about intake though, what are your thoughts on the Airaid, or should I just keep holding on for the Fipk? These are pretty much the only engine mods I'm planning on so getting the most power out of each of these two mods is very important to me.
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rtdkota
Dodge Dakota
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5/07/2002
23:59:49
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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Any 3" Cat back exhaust will improve performance.. it comes down to sound/price really. I prefer the flowmaster 40 series.
As far as intakes-- the Z-tube seems to be a good item.
Why not a TB? Could offer you 10 day money back guarantee. 68 or 70mm... Buy it, try it, don't like it, let me know within 10 days. No strings. I stand behind the product 110%.
www.socaldakota.com
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B1llyw
GenIII
5/08/2002
09:21:38
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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I've had the intake and exhaust on from Day 1 so it's hard for me to say how big a difference they made. The trucks certainly pulls well. I can tell you that I definitely noticed a difference in power when I started running 93 octane. The 180 t-stat has not made a difference that I can tell. I did it because I think it's better for the engine in the long term to run a little cooler and in preparation for other mods - i.e. custom flash, Jet chip, etc. I also have a set of HO cams that I'm going to get around to installing.
Bill White - 2002 QC 4x4, SLT , 4.7, 5 spd, 3.92's, Airaid, MBRP Super Single, Hurst T-Handle, BFG A/T's, IAS Shocks, 180 t-stat
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pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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5/08/2002
12:26:14
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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does anyone know if installing the HO cams void warranty?
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B1llyw
GenIII
5/08/2002
12:35:39
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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I would guess that installing HO cams would void the warranty - if they could figure it out. From what I understand, the HO cams look physically like the standard cams. Even the paint marks are the same. I don't think a dealer would know they are not the stock cams.
Bill White - 2002 QC 4x4, SLT , 4.7, 5 spd, 3.92's, Airaid, MBRP Super Single, Hurst T-Handle, BFG A/T's, IAS Shocks, 180 t-stat
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bernd
*GenIII*
5/08/2002
22:08:58
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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I totally agree with Sam. The TB is really a big "key" to the power in the 4.7's.
On the HO cams, no...they won't void the warranty...unless you tell them (the dealer). Then, the warranty is voided on the valvetrain (they can't void the warranty on the truck as the cams have nothing to do with the suspension, tires, brakes, driveline (most of it), steering, interior, etc. ;)
Uhhhhh....Sam. We offer a 30-Day. (This works out much better as the 4.7's need a really LONG learn cycle. 200 miles will do it for most cases...but they really need 400+ as the adaptive idle and long-term fuel trim take much longer than the standard Magnum engines.)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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rtdkota
Dodge Dakota
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5/08/2002
23:57:29
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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Yep, it's 30 days... My bad.
I've never had one come back, so I've never dealt with it. LOL.
So change that to 30days.
:P
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
00:52:17
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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not to burst anyones bubble but the Throttle body has little effect on 4.7s.
The best mod for the 4.7 is PCM upgrade.
Just ask Conig, Duner, and anyone else who has one.
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Justin_NTFS
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
01:03:47
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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I'm just running the factory intake and using glass-packs, it produces all of the power I need.
Justin's
Red 1991 Dodge Dakota Sport
5.2L, 318 Cubic Inch, V8
4-Speed-Automatic
Current Modifications:
18 Inch Glass Pack w/ 3 Inch Tips
K&N Airfilter
Mobil 1 15W50 and Mobil 1 Oil Filter
HD Radiator
HD Fan Clutch
Big Dodge Sticker on Back Glass
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pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
02:43:35
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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anyone know the real deal on when or if the the K&N fipk is coming out for the 4.7? Is it worth the wait, are the fipk that far superior to most/all other aftermarket intake kits?
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rtdkota
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
04:45:37
|  RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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Really? Wow... Guess all the phone calls from people with 4.7s that have called me to tell me the TB worked great were pulling my leg. ;)
Have you run one? (if yes, and had problems-- Let me know-- we take that info and try to make sure it is resolved.)
Sure I agree the PCM mod works... if you can still get it done-- I know there's a few sources now. Duner runs a Leach program that you might not be able to get anymore (from what I've heard, no concrete info on that). Duner runs a 70mm on his 4.7L-Turbo... Good feedback from him, plus I drove it NA with the 70mm last year. Damn truck is FAST even without the Turbo.
30 day return policy speaks volumes...
Sam
www.socaldakota.com
Quote--
Message:
not to burst anyones bubble but the Throttle body has little effect on 4.7s.
The best mod for the 4.7 is PCM upgrade.
Just ask Conig, Duner, and anyone else who has one.
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John925
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
06:02:41
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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What about the ASE ECU Upgrade?
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bernd
*GenIII*
5/09/2002
12:45:32
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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I don't agree with the TB statement either Sam. Folks...the 4.7L takes much longer to "learn" the new mods (especially the throttle body) than the standard Magnum engines. You can expect anywhere from 400-800 miles before the 4.7L really knows what's going on. Adaptive idle is a big problem (learning curve/time). As for the TB's not doing anything...not true at all.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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B1llyw
GenIII
5/09/2002
13:06:45
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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Bernd, this is a quote from your website:
"The F&B 70mm produced approx 5hp and 6 ft lbs of torque over stock and 1 hp and 5.5 ft lbs of torque more than a fully ported 68mm TB. This data is conservative and was taken on a truck with stock manifolds, pre-cats and main cat."
Those are very minimal gains. IMHO, not a worthwhile mod on a 4.7 if you are paying for a throttle body. It might be worth it if you port your own and don't have to spend any money.
Bill White - 2002 QC 4x4, SLT , 4.7, 5 spd, 3.92's, Airaid, MBRP Super Single, Hurst T-Handle, BFG A/T's, IAS Shocks, 180 T-Stat, Jet Chip - Stage II
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
13:11:18
|  RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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Have any of you nay-sayers tried the 70mm TB??
I have..... it really makes the 4.7 scream. Until you've tried it and determined that it really didn't offer any gains, I don't wanna hear it.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
13:18:34
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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hey Alex, I'm now considering one, do you have any other mods?
I have a home-brew intake and this Sat I'm getting an exhaust put on?
along with these ya think I'll get more than just 5 hp? Because like B1llyw said it's not really worth the cost?
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
14:06:28
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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I have:
The cold-air intake from Volant. Gave me a nice roar when i hit the pedal, better mpg, slight hp increase.
The 70 mm TB. There are some idisyncrasies with the idle but huge power gain from 2000-5000.
The 3" Dynomax cat-back kit. Lost some bottom end torque, but gained the ability to rev to 5500. Can't help but bark the tires going into second gear at any rpm over 3000 (it's a 5-spd).
I would stick with the Dynomax muffler welded into the stock pipe for more bottom end torque for around town driving. I drag race a good bit, so the top end chrage is okay with me.
Other than some Lakewood bars and taking off the clutch fan, it's bone stock. That combo runs 15.1 @ 90 mph on street tires with a 3.55 rear ratio at 4150 lbs (that's my 300 lb a$$ in a loaded clubcab sport). I have yet to try the new set of Mickey ET Streets I just bought, but that should get me a 14.9 pretty soon here.
Next month..... Mike Leach PCM, HO cams and a 3" catalytic converter. Hopefully 14.50's.....
Think of it this way. The TB by itself got a gain of only 5 hp. But without it, future mods won't do you much good at all. If I had gotten the 3" cat-back and no TB, it would just be a noisy slug. But with the TB and the exhaust, it picked up .35 in the quarter mile.
More air in, more air out. Just add some gasoline and traction and you're haulin' a$$
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
14:52:38
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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thanks for the incite Alex,
this is what my exhaust will consist of
Stock Exhaust from the manifolds to the second set of 02's, the third cat will be eliminated, after that a hi-p muffler, than ran out to dual rear exhaust.
Now, you said more air in more air out, Logically speaking wouldn't the 72mm be a little batter for my exhaust setup?
Bernd what do you think or anybody for that matter
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
15:09:51
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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There's also kind of another trick with that air-in/air-out rule. Some mods will raise the power up in the rpm band. The 72 mm TB will give you the most power gain from about 3000 to 6000 rpm. The motor won't rev that high with the stock computer, and you will want to be at 3000 to pass someone on the two-lanes, and that's a lot of revving to get the power. So, I would stick with a 70 mm TB and a single exhaust. If you NEED duals to be happy, don't go nay larger than twin 2.5" pipes.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
15:27:16
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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dohhh forgot to mention I drive about 80% freeway, I have 3.92's 4x4 auto so actually I'm hovering around 2650rpms. I need more power around 50-90mph.
these little fu*king cars like to cut in front of me and it's like if I only had a little more power they wouldn't be able to cut in front of me.
I am asking for your opinion, I don't mean to sound like I'm arguing with ya, I just forgot to mention my driving style and if that would change things. btw I think the truck has more than enough low end. Will the increased power in the higher R's make up for the loss in the lower rpm band?
Sorry for all the ???????
I appreciate it
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
16:01:02
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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So, here's something to think about..... if you're hovering at about 2650, I figure roughlly that you're rolling at about 70-75, right? If some dude comes up trying to pass you and you've got the 72 mm TB and the duals, and you stomp it, you'll get power. But it will take from 2600 to 3000 until it really throws you back in the seat. See how long that might take? That's a 1-2-3 count before that motor is really singing. On my set-up, I have the power band RIGHT THERE at about 2200-2500. So when I'm doing 75 or 80 (at about 2500), all I have to do is tap it and I've got 90 mph. If I really want to scorch the punk, I pull it back into fourth and stand on it. By the time I shove it back up into 5th (about 5000 rpm), the speed limiter is waiting for me at 117 mph. That's the Leach flash..... no more speed limiter.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
16:19:18
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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ahhhh but I have an auto, as soon as I nail it, it downshifts into the (second) 2nd gear (passing gear, and I'm at 4500 rmps (about)
and yea your right it is 70-75
but there have been times when I'm cruising at over 90mph miles an hour.
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Alberto
Dodge Dakota
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5/09/2002
21:01:49
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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I have a 2001 4.7 5 speed and I install a volant intake, JBA headers , and Magnaflow 3" stainless cat back exhaust and I notice improvement in power. I haven't dyno the truck get.
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pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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5/11/2002
05:23:19
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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do they make crower camshafts for the 4.7? Has anyone tried these?
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CW
GenIII
5/11/2002
10:34:15
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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The TB with a high flow cat would be a good combo. This HO intake manifold I think would go well with those.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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5/11/2002
16:34:52
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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D@mn mods are driving me broke... hehe but I love it
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2002
01:03:38
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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I have a 2000 2wd RC 4.7 5-speed, 3.92 SG, Leach PCM, Removed CAT, MBRP w/cuda tips, IAT adjuster, TPS @.75, IP Z-Tube, Autolights, synthetic oil. I am running the stock-unported throttle body. I tried a ported 68mm and I drove it for over a thousand miles. I lost low-end power and had zero gains on top end. The pedal response was jumpier and the idle erratic.
I have read about multiple complaits and glitches with the 70mm and 72mm. My main concern is drivability. The PCM flash HELPED the idle, and was a MAJOR improvement in power. I mean you notice a HUGE difference almost instantly. It only took about 100 miles before my truck was running absolutly FLAWLESS with now a PERFECT 600 RPM idle irregaurdless if the A/C is on or not!!!
The PCM upgrade is the same money as the 70 and 72 throttle bodies. To me, it makes much more sense to get your PCM done before ANY thing else.
Guys I shift at 6000 RPMS. I make good power ALL the way there from start to finish.
Duner, Conig, or any one else with a PCM upgrade answer me this - Was it not the best upgrade you did? (leaving your turbo out Duner!)
Remeber my truck idles at 600 perfectly, and makes power to 6000 RPMS. I will be at the Chrysler Classic next week-end in Columbus if anybody wants to come see for yourselves. My truck is Intense Blue with the AAR Cuda hood.
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2002
01:04:28
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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Now granted these cams and intake put a whole new slant to the idea......
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cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2002
02:21:10
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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Oh and the reason why I believe is simple - When you increase TB size,you increase the volume of air BUT you DECREASE the velocity.
The main element of the PCM flash is the timing advance. This is the "key" to 4.7 performance.
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CW
GenIII
5/12/2002
10:34:37
| RE: the 4.7...what really works?
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Mine loves the home porting I did on the 68mm TB. Have you tried the throttle body with the PCM? The intake I am not sure about right now seems I have lost some torque but my MPH is higher by about 2mph in the quarter. I haven't let the PCM adjust yet though.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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5/12/2002
11:58:29
| Airflow Works!
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I think the PCM is the absolute best thing you can do with a 4.7! Unfortunately the place I had mine done no longer does them... but the Leach appears to be nearly identical. The difference to me is like night and day. Better drivability, throttle response, torque and also higher rpm capability with more power all the way thru the entire power band. I think it's an absolute shame that these trucks didn't come with this programming from the factory!
After you have the PCM - you need to allow the engine to breathe better. I tested TBs at the track when I was running NA. The difference between a stock 65mm and a ported 68mm was 2 tenths. The difference between the ported 68mm and the F&B 72mm was another 2 tenths. That's 4 tenths from the stock 65mm! Keep in mind that I was running a larger 3" CAT and also a full 3" exhaust system after the Y-pipe. Once you open it up for more airflow, you can really feel how it all works together. I can't wait to try the HO cams and intake.
On a side note - I read an email today about a 4.7 Dakota with a sheet metal tunnel ram intake running at Milan...... 13.30s NA! Maybe I need to get working on my intake idea? ;>)
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