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RyanH
Dodge Dakota
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1/05/2006
13:24:59
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 Subject: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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Okay, so I went to a local muffler shop and asked about putting true duals on my 99 r/t. The guy said that you really can't do it but I know there are thousands of guys out there running them. Why would this not be possible in the eyes of the muffler guy? I know he mentioned the O2 sensors. Why would those cause a problem?
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RyanH
Dodge Dakota
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1/05/2006
13:28:34
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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Oh, I forgot to mention that he said that headers would be more of a headache, causing pinging sounds and gasket problems. If they are such a headache, why do people run them. This guy didn't make any sense to me.
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93SuperDak
GenII
1/05/2006
18:01:38
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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Muffler shop guys like to do things according to stock. Keep looking - maybe a performance shop.
At first I had true duals w/ no cats with the O2 sensor on the left pipe and it rumbled (blab blab blab) horribly. I added a cross pipe and the rumble turned into a nice mopar roar and even seemed to have more power. My truck has 1 O2 sensor and now that I have a cross pipe the O2 sensor is in the cross pipe.
Gotta love them on ramps!
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Jecht
Dodge Dakota
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1/05/2006
18:30:37
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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just sounds like he didnt want to do the job. went to a local muffler shop to get my oil changed because it was too wet for me to do it. they guy went yo uknow those trucks sounds great with true duals. so just go to another muffler shop.
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Jasonb61
Dodge Dakota
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1/05/2006
21:32:38
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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Unless the cat. converter is defective, they are not supposed to alter anything before it FROM what I hear... But if that convert somehow ends up missing, then its fair game :-D I chopped my entire exhaust off right after the Y-pipe and on monday im getting a new exhaust without converters :-D
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trukguy
Dodge Dakota
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1/05/2006
22:15:43
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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My muffler shop said they couldn't replace my stock cat with a HiFlow cat unless the stock one was damaged. Then he handed me a sledge hammer. 5 minutes later the stock cat is on the floor and he's welding in the HiFlow.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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1/06/2006
22:43:29
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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First off, federal emission regs are very particular about the cat. Although there are other rules (you know how the govt is about verbage), these are the three that affect us the most.
It cannot be removed
It must remain in place and in the stock configuration. If it's a 2 in, 1 out, it has to stay that way. Can't change it to 2 in, 2 out.
At less than a certain mileage (I think it's 50K), the stock cat cannot be changed unless it's damaged or malfunctioning.
Anyone caught violating these rules is subject to some huge fines. So a muffler shop is not about to take the risk for you. True duals on a street driven truck are clearly illegal.
The O2 sensors would not function correctly, and the check engine light would be on. But there are black boxes to fix that. Of course, the computer no longer functions correctly, so you have to facter that in, too.
You have to ask some other questions, too. Will headers really give you more usable power? Doubtfull. Are they a pain in the neck? Probably. Do they leak? The cheap ones do. Do they cause pinging? If the computer isn't tuned, yes it will.
So, here's my advice. (It's free, so take it for what it's worth.) What you're shooting for is decent low end torque, low cost, and good sound. But you don't want to waste a lot of money of stuff that doesn't make a usable and noticable improvement.
Cat: High flow, 2 in, 1 out, with at least a 2.5" outlet. 3" would probably be better.
Cat Back: 2.5-3" single tube. It's inexpensive, works well at less than 5,000 rpm's or so, and doesn't create a lot of clutter. Fitmet is easy, just follow the factory pipes. Not rocket science.
Headers: High quality (expensive) equal length shorties with a ceramic coating. Depending on where you live, heat shield wrapping might also be a good idea - but only in a dry environment. Use a copper gasket.
Y pipe: This is very important, don't scrimp here. The stock piece is not that good. Make it as big as possible, at least 2". I think I read somewhere that an off the shelf piece was available. But a good muffler shop can make one for you.
Now that all that is done, You'll need to reprogram the computer. You'll most likely need a custom chip burned.
You'll most likely spend about $2K, depending on what you choose to do yourself. On a stock engine, you might gain as much as 20hp on the top end. But if you're planning other engine mods, this is a good place to start.
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Slow4x4Dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/07/2006
01:17:37
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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"You'll most likely spend about $2K, depending on what you choose to do yourself. On a stock engine, you might gain as much as 20hp on the top end. But if you're planning other engine mods, this is a good place to start. "
LOL 2k. I bought an X-Pipe off ebay for ~$100, bought a lincoln welder for $299 (I use it for other stuff as well) and 2 flowmaster 40 series off ebay for ~$300. Took a sawzaw to the pipes off came the cat, bought some steel piping for $40 max. Tips were $40 off ebay. A little bit of work and your good to go. If a friend has a welder you just saved yourself some money, but if you go out and buya welder then you can just return it later that week.
All in all you might spend $500 if you Do It Yourself. Plus you can run them out the sides if you want or do anything. Much more power and the sound is amazing. My O2 sensor doesn't throw any codes and the headers are REALLY easy. You can remove the starter to reach the left manifold, it's easier if you take off the driver side tire. The passenger manifold is easily accessible if you take your oil filter off. Just try not to get any rust in your eyes.
Honestly people, what happened to modifying stuff on your own? Who cares about the laws? Cops don't look underneath for cat's and if they do they probably mod their own cars. But I don't have any emission tests where I live. If you do, I've heard of people that can pass the test with no cats on dakotas.
Quit being a sissy and work on it yourself. It might take you a weekend max, just drink some beer and get a buddy to help.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
1/07/2006
04:25:51
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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Slow4x4Dak, I hear that!
Funny how some ppl repeat STUPID a$$ rumors to scare people from doing something cool.
(Yet the same person would most likely buy a tb spacer LOL!)
I have ran my TRUE 2 1/2" dual exhaust, dual universal cats, O2 sensors ONLY in one bank for a week now. No code and it rips a$$ at LEAST as good. No notice of torque loss what so ever!
And it has more power in the 6200 to 6500 RPM range too than the stock single exhaust!
I had a biatch of a time cutting and welding (before I bought the chop saw a little too late) but I got it all on myself for no more than $250 including pipe, glass packs, and converters.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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1/07/2006
23:28:18
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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<<Funny how some ppl repeat STUPID a$$ rumors to scare people from doing something cool. >>
Not sure what stupid rumor you're referring to. If it's about the cats and federal regs, look it up yourself. In some areas, it's very strictly enforced. In others not at all. Even though Graphite is running cats, they are not legal under federal law. It's stupid, I know, but there it is.
<< And it has more power in the 6200 to 6500 RPM range too than the stock single exhaust! >>
For most people (me included) this is not usable power. I don't think I've ever run my truck that hard. I have other vehicles for that sort of thing.
<< LOL 2k. >>
Do the math. Headers, pipes, mufflers, cats, tuning, labor to make and install it all. That's probably pushing $2k. Remember, Ryan asked about a local muffler shop doing the work. You spent about $800 and did it yourself; and that doesn't apppear to include headers or cats.
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Slow4x4Dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2006
14:07:03
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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Headers: $230 off ebay
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=dakota+headers
Mufflers: $150 off ebay for BOTH
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&fstype=1&from=R10&satitle=flowmaster+40&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fmmk=&fmmd=&fylo=&fyhi=&mppfQy=dakota+headers&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=21015&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=
Glasspacks if you want: $40 for BOTH at Surplus City in my town.
Another $40 in piping and you're good to go. That's less than what I paid to even do it. Around $500. You can even get bendable tubing and clamp it if you don't want to weld.
Don't go the stupid route and pay for all your stuff through a muffler shop. If you want them to install all of it, then you might pay $300 for labor and they will slap it in within 2 hours (more than like 1/2 hr if they are any good).
Again. When is the last time you heard about somebody who got in trouble for a catalytic converter other than at inspection? Cops might harass kids in camero's with glasspacks, but trucks yeah right. Don't be scared by stupid laws and you more than likely won't throw any O2 codes. Plus you're truck WILL sound like a beast.
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Slow4x4Dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2006
14:12:37
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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Sorry, looks like I ruined the format of the page with my ebay links...
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2006
16:56:10
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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99 4x4 QC 5.2L > Cat plugged > Under warrenty I took it to the dealer for replacement which they did > Truck did not feel right so I took it up our test hill going up the Rocky Mountains > All I could get was 70 something MPH out of it soooooooo I took it to our local muffler shop > They put one of there's on it > 145 bucks total > Took it back up the hill and backed off at 95MPH still pulling strong > Bottom line >>> I had no problem doing this at all >
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RyanH
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2006
21:25:46
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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Well, my friend said he could do it all for me. I was just wandering about the O2 sensors location and if I would throw any codes. I know from jegs I can get the two flowmaster 40's for 70 each and the x-pipe for 120 and the two hi flow cats for about 150 each. I guess that is around $560 total. I would prefer to run hi flow cats than no cats. Where are the O2 sensors located? Also, another friend told me about something that can trick the computer into thinking there is no O2 sensor behind the cat if there is one there. Thanks guys for the encouragement. I was beginning to feel a little disappointed when the guy at the shop said it can't be done. I will hopefully be ordering some of the parts soon and getting it all put together. I may wait until I get my bonus in March, not sure if I can wait that long. Thanks for the help guys.
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Dan
Dodge Dakota
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1/09/2006
22:22:19
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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My cat is on my garage floor and my Dakota runs great. I have both up and down stream o2s. I had a muffler shop run my headers into a 2.5" pipe along the right side than split into two 1.5" dual pipes for a dual exast. The truck runs great and sounds good. If you have a two foot wood drill bit you can fix those cat converters and they would still be on your truck for inspection. Oh and by the way it still passes emissions.
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RyanH
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2006
10:10:01
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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When looking for high flow cats, I ran across another question. What is the difference with 2-way or 3-way or 3-way plus air converter? What does that mean? What would I need for my dakota if I were to run true duals?
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bigdave
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2006
01:01:26
| RE: Local muffler shop said can't do it.
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I dont know about the 2 or 3 way, but the + air means it has an air tube, You dont need that, some cars do(they pump fresh air into the cat to make the exhaust more diluted AKA seem cleaner).
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