| From | Message |
cowboy bob
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/04/2006
16:09:05
|
 Subject: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
any body know why they stoped making the 318, is it just because they came out with the 4.7?
|
davec
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/04/2006
16:14:19
|  RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
The 4.7l is a much more efficient running engine. Especially as far as emmisions concerns go. The 5.9l and 5.2l were workhorses and are hard to beat when it comes to durability. But they were just simply old. There was nothing more they could do to make them cleaner burning and more efficient. The 4.7l is also lighter due to aluminum and composite materials being used. Both of which add to efficiency and fuel economy.
Hope this helps...
dave
|
So
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/04/2006
16:39:59
|  RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
Yup, they came out with the 4.7 to replace the 318; rather than deciding to replace the 318 because they came out with the 4.7.
|
crow318
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/05/2006
08:13:27
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
Dave is right, they wanted a more efficient engine.
As for the "nothing to do to make them cleaner", its a valid point, but not entirely true. The biggest reason is the governemnt restrictions on size.
Note that ford and chevy did the same thing around the same time. Ford introduced the 4.6 to replace the 5.0 and chevy introduced the 4.8 and 5.3 to replace the 5.0 and 5.7.
All of those engines have been used forever and were all time tested to be powerful and reliable.
|
davec
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/05/2006
15:03:12
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
Restrictions on size? They put V10's in trucks...I don't think size is an issue. Chevy 5.3l have been around longer than all of them. (327 c.i. small block) They simply changed the design to make it more efficient and...lighter.
I was told by Chrysler themselves that they couldn't get the 318 and 360's any cleaner than they were when they stopped producing them. The engine design just doesn't support as efficient combustion. Don't get me wrong...they were pretty darn clean, but I guess not clean enough. Plus the standards get more strict every year.
|
cowboy bob
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/05/2006
16:31:50
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
thanks guys for all your info, now i have a 95 dakota with the 318 magnum and am thinking about trading it in for a new dakota, but i love the power of the 318, is ther a big diffrence
|
davec
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/05/2006
16:38:20
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
I think the 4.7l performs much better than a 318 and close to the 5.9l with a little less seat of you pants torque. But, everyone has their own opinion, you'd have to drive em' and see for yourself. There are many more performance parts for the 318/360...something to think about.
dave
|
318 4x4
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/05/2006
17:35:10
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
The chevy 5.3 has as much in common with the 327 small block as the dodge 4.7 has in common witht the toyota 4.7--engine size--nothing else
|
gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/05/2006
19:54:38
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
The "not any cleaner" claim is a convenient excuse. It was claimed for decades that the Hemi design could never pass emissions, but what did they do? Made some mods (it's not a true hemi by most accounts, but the valve layout is still there, so marketing can have a field day, and the general public hasn't a clue) and now it passes the toughest standards yet. The changes are influenced by marketing, internal costs, and aftermarket concerns.
1. Marketing. People are nearly always taken in by something new. Especially with the Hemi. The other products get in on the deal by association.
2. Internal costs. Despite some re-tooling when the 318 and 360 were Magnum-ized, the overall tooling is very old. Sooner-or-later, new tooling is necessary. This takes mondo cash. By going with a new design, they will be buying new tooling for an engine that can be produced at less cost, while incorporating some new features. Basically, re-tool for an older engine design, or re-tool for a new one. Also, the new design allows for a somewhat more compact design allowing for lower hoodlines, etc.
3. Aftermarket concerns. The 318 (my sentimental favorite, by the way) had been in production as an LA smallblock and Magnum variant for roughly 35 years. Add that to the fact that so much of the 318/340/360 is a swappers delight, and there's virtually no money made on these engines from an aftermarket standpoint, especially for Mopar Performance. With the new engine, they are holding the cards again, and for a few years, nearly all the cash will go to Mopar, either directly, or through other companies that will have to pay some serious fees to Mopar on each product they sell. Look at how it was for the Magnum engines of the 90's. Edelbrock was just finally able to offer heads and intake for the Magnums in 2004, and the 318 Magnum was introduced in 1992! Some of it is due to demand and gear-up time for production (but not 12 years!!!), but mostly, it's due to Mopar holding tight to their control of the product. Is it a coincidence that the 4.7 and 5.7 were introduced when they were. Not on a bet. It's all about the money.
|
jayb
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/05/2006
21:25:14
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
davec, the 5.2 and 4.7 have the same torque, but the 4.7 has 5 more hp. however your newer dak weighs alot more. what your feeling is a new engine compared to a more worn out older engine. common sense applies that it will have more balls. if you take a brand new 318 mag vs the newer 287 you wouldnt even notice a difference if in the same truck.
|
shannon
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/06/2006
01:27:55
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
The main reason the 4.7 is cleaner is because of its small bore size. Small bores = low emissions. ALL newer moters have smaller bores (even the hemi and the Ls1, which has a smaller bore than a 318). With the wedge head design (inline valves inclined) of the 318, a smaller bore would kill performance (and it would not be a 318 anymore, it would be something smaller). Hemi's and 4.7's can get away with smaller bores because of the valve arangment.
|
gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/06/2006
03:20:07
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
Well, yes and no. While there's no disputing the breathing capacity of the Hemi (in particular) the wedge 273 of the 60's had a slightly smaller bore than the 4.7 (3.63 vs 3.66) and it never had a breathing issue. In fact, the valve arrangement of the Mopar smallblock is noted for allowing the use of larger valves than their contemporaries without the same cylinder wall/valve shrouding issues, and better flow regardless of valve size. That being said, smaller bores are the trend, but that doesn't hold true for the 6.1 Hemi which has even a larger bore than the old 340 (4.04 vs 4.06), while retaining the same stroke as the 360 and still passes emissions.
From the ALLPAR website:
"The 4.7 has a cast iron block and two cast aluminum cylinder heads with a single overhead camshaft per bank and two valves per cylinder. It displaces 4701 cm3 (287 cu in.). A relatively small bore of 3.66 inches (93 mm) helped reduce overall length of the engine, packaging it for the compact engine bay of the Grand Cherokee. The stroke is 3.4 inches (86.5 mm)."
That being said, there are no absolutes. I mean, the V10 still passes emissions and it's a wedge of the same lineage as the 5.2/5.9 Magnums. Go figure.
|
cowboy bob
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/08/2006
22:25:35
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
see me friend had a 2000 dakota with the 4.7 and my 318 95 dakota beast the pants off his, nnow i just got my bottom end redone due to aq small knocking in the main gears, and replaced all the conecting rod and mains with performance parts, do you think that this has boosted my 318 magnum, because i feel a big diffrence in the tak off and all out power, or just because it has a brand new bottom end??, thanks for all the replies,
|
318 4x4
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/09/2006
15:04:45
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
In defense of the 318, it had 230hp and 300tq. 1997-1999 dakotas. In 2000 the 4.7 had 235hp and 295tq. 2001-2004 dakotas 4.7 had 230hp 295 tq. due to the extra cats. put on. The 4.7 doesn't have the same torque as the 5.2. it has less. Just to clear that up.
|
340party
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/09/2006
15:23:30
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
I think the 4.7s are underated. I ran a 14.7 with my 2001 4.7 std and my friends 98 318 auto ran a best 15.7 on the same day. Both trucks are stock regular cabs.
|
318 4x4
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/09/2006
19:32:02
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
I'm not saying you're wrong, but you're comparing a 5-speed to an automatic, and the rear end gears could have been different.
Don't think I don't like the 4.7 though, I just don't like people saying the 318/360's are crap; They aren't.
|
340party
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/09/2006
23:46:45
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
I love the 318 and 360's with a aftermarket carb. But I think they are severly detuned from the factory because of emissions. I had a dart with a junkyard 318 with way crappier heads than magnum heads and crappy compression run a 14.0 at 96mph. If it would have been a magnum 318 with the same parts it would have easliy ran 13's at over 100mph. I also seen a gen 2 with a 360 run 11.8's with the stock intake (Im shure he ported the crap out of it) and small headers with no spray or power adder. I just knew it was a 13 second truck until I seen him run. I almost crapped my pants.
|
Allpar
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/10/2006
13:17:10
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
The 318/360 will always be notorious for its work ethics, no matter how fast it runs the 1/4 mile. A motor that has been around 35+ years and has shown itself well capable of tremendous abuse and is a work horse. 150,000 on a 318 is just warming up, Id like to see the 4.7 last as long as a 318 would! Sry the 318 is probabley the longest lasting gas motor next to the 225 slant six.
|
318 4x4
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/10/2006
19:29:27
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
I think Chrysler just wanted a new "high tech" SOHC engine to compete with the ford 4.6 triton. I know the 360 was replaced with the "hemi." People think it's also hi-tech yet it is still a pushrod engine. Yes, it does have fly by wire throttle control, and torque management, etc(I hate all of that crap)
As mentioned on a previous thread from a couple years ago: Having new technology for the sake of having new technology isn't good
just my $.02
|
DrJ
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/12/2006
23:38:22
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
The 318 is ancient and by far the best engine on the market. You could take it into hell and back, and it'd still run great. It's virtually indestructible.
I love my 99' dakota with my 5.2L and wouldn't trade it for nothing. I've driven the brand new dakota's with the 4.7L. They run as smooth and move as fast the 5.2L, but take a look under the hood. It's a real pain to work on anything. The 5.2L is much more simplistic and gets the same fuel economy.
They could have improved on the 5.2L. I think they scraped it so they could put a newer engine on the market that wouldn't last. All about greed.
|
03 QC Sport +
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/13/2006
12:45:08
| RE: no more 318why?
IP: Logged
Message:
What is a pain to work on on the 4.7???? Ever look at a 4.6 or 5.4 triton v/8???
everything is well laid out on the 4.7.
|
| | P 1 Next Page>> |
