1992 dodge dakota 318 mods - Dodge Dakota Forum

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kyle Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/04/2005 17:54:42	Subject: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: I have a 1992 dakota w/ 318 4x4 w/ 3.55 gears. I am wanting to do some modifications to it but not sure which road to take. I have a flowmaster exhaust and K&N air filter currently. I want more than that. I was thinking of upgrading to the K&N FIPK, M-1 intake, thorley headers, fastman tb. Needing suggestions or comments. I was told by someone at summitt racing that most people with M-1 intake is going to carbs instead of fuel injected?? Thanks for the help!
gen1dak Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/05/2005 12:19:09	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: First advice.....don't listen to Summit. You're in a situation where you really need to look at low and midrange power. Despite the fact that your engine has a slightly more aggressive cam than later 318's, if you're gonna go M1, you need more cam to really take advantage of the upper rpm performance. The 92's had better exhaust (the manifolds are 2 1/4" inside diameter, later units were 1 7/8"...with matching h-pipe), so headers would be the last thing I'd go for. Your stockers are a good 10hp better than later units. A good performance H-pipe (remember 2 1/4") back exhaust with all mandrel bends is the way to go. If you just have to have headers, those stockers are worth some $$$. The FIPK will help, but a larger TB is useless, again, til you make it possible for the engine to actually use more air, so you at least need to increase the cam specs. Either go with higher ratio rockers, of do a cam swap. Keep in mind that the 5.2 and 5.9 use the same intake setup, so you have more room to grow with the 318 before maxing out the stock setup. Don't go nuts on add-ons til you increase the engine's ability to make use of it all.
kyle Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/05/2005 14:15:43	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: In your last paragraph you talk about making it possible for the engine to actually use more air and increasing the engines ability to make use. What do you mean by all that? Also, If I were to go w/ headers what do you think about thorley? and when you say my old ones are worth $$, from who? Thanks for the help and advice.
b1llyw DakotaEnthusiast 11/05/2005 20:30:56	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: Mopar Performance computer should be your first mod. Bill White - KRC Performance '03 SRT-4 w/goodies
gen1dak Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/05/2005 22:51:56	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: Performance pcm? Why? You get a quicker ignition curve, and it can feed higher HP that's not being made. Without cam, exhaust, intake manifold it's only worth about 7 hp. The computer should be after the other add-ons. But it will immediately require premium fuel in most cases (some get lucky and don't need premium, others get by on 89 octane by running cooler thermostats, but most need it, and I've yet to read where they could still run 87 octane). Also, since it's a 4x4, and is already lugging more weight, I'd hold off on the performance PCM for that reason....(not recommended for towing...4x4 is heavier...see where I'm headed?). So much for my opinion on that. Making the engine able to use more airflow.... Engines run on air, not gas, so it stands to reason that the more air you can get into the engine, the more power it'll make. An engine with no mods will easily generate 30% more HP with 7psi boost....more air via supercharger or turbo. Now, to make an engine use more air, you make it easier for the air/gas mixture to get into the cylinders. You really have to start at the core. The cam. A quick way to open the valves further, and keep them open just a bit longer is to go to a higher ratio rocker. Stock is 1.6:1. Stepping up to 1.7:1 will help. However, swapping in a better camshaft will do more since you can go with a much better cam profile...not just lift, but duration and overlap as well, etc. Doing the rocker swap will net 15hp, give-or-take. Cam swaps can net considerably more....double, even triple that, and still remain streetable.If you go with the rocker swap first, and later on decide you want more, you must remember the higher rocker ratio when picking a new cam. Anyway, keeping the valves open longer will let more air into the cylinders, thus making more power. Now, this is a very simplistic explanation. Everything is relative and there are no absolutes. For example, keeping the valves open longer is good to a point. Beyond that point, you actually lose cylinder pressure, and must spin the engine faster to make power. Too much duration will kill low-end power. This, and many other variables must be considered when deciding on a cam. Until the cam or rocker decision is made, it's not gonna use all that extra airflow capacity that an M1 and better throttle body can supply. Doug Thorley has been in the header business for, I'd guess, 40 years or more. You can't go wrong with his products. You don't stay in business that long without making excellent products. Regarding your stock exhaust manifold, the larger ones were only on the 1992 and early 1993 models, so they're kinda rare. Ultimate performance belongs to the headers, but those early stockers are not far behind, and are better than later units. They won't make you rich, but you could fetch a few bucks for them. Wanna sell 'em?
kyle Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/05/2005 23:45:57	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: If i were to upgrade to the 1.7:1 roller rockers which brand do you recommend? or if I were to upgrade the cam which do you recommend? and if i decide to upgrade the cam would adding the m1 intake and bigger tb be something i would have to do as well to get more outta the things im putting in? I would definetly consider selling them once I added the new intake manifold. the only thing is how much could i get out of them which i have no clue and would probably get ripped off. Can you give me an honest answer what you think it would be worth? also how big or what brand of tb should i get? im thinking stock is 50mm for my truck but im not sure. I guess you can already figure i am somewhat of a newbie but i really enjoy working on my truck and making it perform better. Just trying to gain some knowledge. I guess you have to start somewhere. Thanks again to everyone who is helping me with my questions and whole project for that matter! I greatly appreciate it!
b1llyw DakotaEnthusiast 11/06/2005 06:35:02	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: You can see gains with the PCM immediately, the cost of running premium fuel vs regular is only few dollars a week for the average driver. 7 hp? More than that. The key number is that you're going to see 20 to 25 lb/ft of torque which is exactly what you need on a heavier truck. It will also help the all the other mods you do thereafter work better. Bill White - KRC Performance '03 SRT-4 w/goodies
gen1dak Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2005 01:20:37	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: Agreed, it'll help the other mods, but others with dyno access, clain only about 7hp, 8-10 lbs torque with a stock engine. Naturally, with other performance issues addressed, net power increases are considerably greater, but hey, as long as you're buyin'.....what's a few extra bucks for premium? My angle with Kyle is that as he's admitted, he's a newbie. Now how many newbies jump in with a performance PCM, then get a rattle-trap detonation response, and get totally miffed about the whole deal, and just walk away? It's not like when a quicker ignition curve cost a couple bucks for a spring swap in the distributor. I mean, those computers are over $300 last time I looked. Kyle, your exhaust go for over $100 each new, and if yours are in good shape, I dunno, $150ish? That's including the matching H-pipe that connects the two to the single pipe ahead of the cat. converter. Man, somebody is cursing me right now for saying that. The beauty of starting at the core of an engine build-up is that you start with the cam, and add mods as you go. Each add-on, makes more of what you've already done. The key is to not get drawn into all the glitter and wild stuff. You have to consider the package you're working with. Don't fall in love with all those screaming horsepower numbers. Geeezzzz, I'm starting to sound like Obi-Wan and Yoda. Just remember the worst thing you can do is over-cam it. The Mopar Performance Magnum RT cam (not to be confused with the stock cam in the 360 Magnum R/T Dakota) is a good cam that delivers, even with the other stock components in place. In fact, Mopar introduced that cam before there even was an M1 for the Magnum. Suffice it to say, it's been around for a while and is a proven design. Going to a 50mm TB and an M1 simply build on what a hotter cam can do. I like the CompCams line. The XR258R-12 would do well with stock PCM, just like the Mopar unit. The beauty of it is that if you feel the need for more HP in the upper rpm range, upgrading to 1.7:1 rockers will do just that. Keep in mind that doing so puts you in a grey area where you probably would need computer mods (with either cam). Also, remember that going with a better cam means you typically need the matching valvesprings to properly control the valves because of the hotter cam. Failing to use them can reduce performance, and the overstressed stock springs can (and will) break, leading to bigger problems. On rockers, I think I'd go with Harland Sharp, but Crane makes good stuff too. Fastman? It appears many use that brand. Even your stocker with some cleanup will improve things. Some good info for comparison and what can be done with them: http://www.fastdodge.com/tbi.html Get familiar with the Magnum engine. Get some literature on it and read. It's the best way to cut through the crap and sales pitches. http://www,manciniracing.com has some good Magnum parts. There are others as well.
kyle Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2005 03:34:14	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: So you are basically saying start with the cam and work up. after the cam add the m1 intake and 50 mm tb as well as headers. because i will get the most out of the intake, tb, and headers bc of the hotrod cam? i looked around for cams and found this.... http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3300/products/142590/272-278-52L-59L-Magnum-R-T-Hydraulic-Roller-Camshaft-Kit-10-HP.htm....what do you think? if i were to go with this cam would i have to get 1.7 rockers? Thanks again for taking the time to help out a newbie like me to better understand all of this. I greatly appreciate it
b1llyw DakotaEnthusiast 11/07/2005 06:05:40	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: "Now how many newbies jump in with a performance PCM, then get a rattle-trap detonation response, and get totally miffed about the whole deal, and just walk away?" Very few from my experience. I don't disagree with the mods you are suggesting but I don't think they are as effective without the computer. The stock controller is designed to run the stock package with a fairly minimal degree of adaptation to anything more aggressive. Bill White - KRC Performance '03 SRT-4 w/goodies
Sneezer Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2005 14:05:58	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: FWIW I put a MP PCM on my truck, 92 2wd 318, and noticed a difference. High miles on the engine at the time, somewhere around 170k I think. I also put the M1 on about the same time, and ported my own TB. Combined I got a pretty good increase, and it pulled much stronger at higher rpms. Highway speed was a blast. I ran 92/93 octane when I could, but when gas prices spiked I dropped down to 87. I noticed no more pinging at 87 than I had when the truck was stock, and as long as I did not get on the gas hard it was fine. Since gas prices were so high anyway, that was fine as I was doing everything I could to keep consumption to a minimum. Also, keep in mind that you don't have to buy a new PCM. I bought my last MP PCM for $100 used, and was money well spent IMO. The Thorley headers are about the only good ones available for the 92-94 trucks. I know a couple people who put them on and got good gains. I think it is mainly due to the overall size of the pipe and the tri-y design that is used. Now I am almost finished with the 360 I have been building, and will be swapping it by the end of the year. If all goes well I might decide to sell my old 318 PCM.
kyle Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2005 14:36:26	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: i know there is more than one option when choosing an m1 intake. Which one do you have sneezer? i know there is single and dual plane. can anyone answer the questions i asked on 11/7 at 3:34? Thanks again anyone who has helped me out!
b1llyw DakotaEnthusiast 11/07/2005 14:38:34	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: M1 two-barrel, single plane MPI manifold with EGR is what you need. Bill White - KRC Performance '03 SRT-4 w/goodies
kyle Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2005 14:44:52	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: hey bill, Does KRC have what you are talking about?
b1llyw DakotaEnthusiast 11/07/2005 14:49:39	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: We certainly do. :) Bill White - KRC Performance '03 SRT-4 w/goodies
Sneezer Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2005 17:53:29	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: KRC will treat you right. I have the 2bbl one, straight drop in replacement. I bought mine from www.mopartsracing.com last year I think. If you are patient you might run across a used one on the boards, but it doesn't last long. People usually descend on them like vultures. $400-450 for a complete M1 and install kit is still a good chunk of change for most people. As far as cams and such go, many people have been quite happy with 1.7 rockers on a stock camshaft. Would do even better in a 92/93 truck. And you don't have to get that deep into the engine. If it were me, I would get the 1.7 rockers, MP PCM, air filter and TB done. Maybe try to mod your existing intake manifold instead of buying an M1, but I don't know how well that would work on an EGR truck. Later when you can afford it and are more comfortable working on the engine, you can get a cam that will work well with 1.7 rockers for some more power. There are several ways to mod these engines, it really depends on how much money you are willing to spend and what kind of goals you have in mind.
gen1dak Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2005 23:40:44	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: By all means, if you can manage the $$$, get the performance computer. But I'm not the only one looking at it from the standpoint of "affording it." Kyle, the link to the cam kit. $475? Find out what all it includes. http://store.yahoo.com/chucker54/mag52l59lhyd.html Cam only for $375. CompCams units like the one I mentioned are about $285 for just the cam. Look around and price compare. You don't have to get 1.7:1 rockers if you get the cam you listed, or the one I referred to (or others for that matter). If, after going with a hotter cam, you find you want a bit more, THEN step up to the higher ratio rockers. At least, that's my approach. Adding them to a stock cam is better than nothing, but not like replacing the stock cam with a much better one. One final note on stock PCM's. They are actually preferred on stock engine supercharger applications since the performance units are too aggressive with ignition timing. They easily support 300+hp in these applications, so they're not so bad, especially the early 90's Magnum PCM's. Once hotter cams and higher redlines are sought (on those blower applications), the performance pcm is needed for the higher redline ceiling and fatter fuel curves, but it is usually still necessary to limit ignition timing with an add-on limiter. Sneezer makes my point, "I ran 92/93 octane when I could, but when gas prices spiked I dropped down to 87. I noticed no more pinging at 87 than I had when the truck was stock, and as long as I did not get on the gas hard it was fine." What's the point of having if you can't romp anytime, anywhere? "Wait, I gotta run this cheap gas out and get premium before I can play. Dang, I just filled up too." Now, if ya got the coin and don't mind an instant 20-cent/gallon increase, go for it. I just tend to ride the more cautious side of things. Recently, when there was a very limited gas supply because of Katrina. It was 95 degrees and humidity was classic summertime Southern Mississippi - thick and heavy. Not much room to run a high advance ignition on 87 octane before rattles kicked in. But, for a while, all we could get was regular. I had 45 gallons of regular stored, and everything I have runs on 87, so it wasn't a problem for me, but it has been a concern of mine, and there it was, happening all around to everyone else. They sat in lines for several hours for $20 max. of 87 octane gas. I just don't feel like that nth degree of power is justified by the cost, and possible handicaps (supply issues, etc) for any sort of street-driven vehicle (a personal thing, not saying anyone else should feel that way). In a legitimate racing effort, that's another matter. Remember, an auto tuned to run on 87, can run on 89-93, but something tuned to run best on premium will be less than its best on lower grades, and could actually suffer damage from detonation. And then there's that potential issue with towing........ Hey b1llyw. I appreciate your mature, controlled replies. What I mean is, it's good to have a healthy discussion, and in some cases, disagreement, where we are basically going down the same path, but with varying methods and opinions....without the hostility.
gen1dak Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/07/2005 23:42:36	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: Kyle, the dual-plane M1's you mentioned are for carbureted applications, not yours.
kyle Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/08/2005 00:28:28	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: I really like KRC performance, I have heard nothing but positive feedback about them. I was wondering from Bill which cam he recommended from KRC? There arent any descriptions in the cams section so im kinda out in left field. Also I'm not sure what is needed when purchasing a cam or if all the parts come with the cam from KRC? just an fyi i dont mind running the higher octane if necessary.
kyle Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/08/2005 00:46:29	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: whats anybody take on changing to higher gears. Currently I have 3.55 would like going to 4.10 be any advantage or help?
kyle Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/08/2005 00:53:43	RE: 1992 dodge dakota 318 mods IP: Logged Message: whats anybody take on changing to higher gears. Currently I have 3.55 would like going to 4.10 be any advantage or help?
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