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Rick
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2005
23:15:22
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 Subject: crappy traction
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i have a 98 rt cc and i lined up with a new titan and got smoked off the line due to me still smokin the tires at the line. ive tried to ease off the throttle a bit but then its not responsive enuff for racing its like all or nothing. i have some kuhmo tires 255/17 seems like if you spit on them they will spin. my question is should i try to lower the tire pressure or get some new rubber but the kuhmos are pretty good though taking corners. Thanx if anyone has any suggestions
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toolfan
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2005
23:28:31
| RE: crappy traction
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my buddy has Dunlap's and they grab good.
i have bfgs radial T/As and they grab good.
i hate how you have to baby it that's so annoying.
lower the tires down to 25psi for strait line drags but drags through the canyons air up to 40-45psi.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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10/26/2005
23:51:42
| RE: crappy traction
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The Kumho is an excellent tire, and should grab really well. You might try dropping the pressure to about 20psi. That will give a softer sidewall and a larger contact patch.
The real problem is you have is not enough weight back there to plant the tires. That's always been a problem with pick ups; that's why they all have rear ABS as standard.
You have two choices: 1. Add more weight in the bed. Cheap, but not really a good idea. Weight is the enemy of speed.
2. Shift the weight you already have to the rear of the truck. Change the front suspension to a drag style so it will lift the front on take off (not always a good thing on a street car). Also change the rear suspension a little so it will squat and dig in. This is a little more complicated and expensive, but worth the effort. Do a little research on drag car suspensions.
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rick
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2005
09:11:39
| RE: crappy traction
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thanx guys really appreciate the knowledge gonna go lower the tire pressure and then go huntin for some jap trucks tonight and see if any of them want to line up so i can redeem myself. If that doesnt help me take off then im gonna go for the suspension. Cuz i know ill smoke em if i could hook up. I mean it seems that if you put like anymore than say 300 horse to the rear wheels the truck wouldnt be streetable without an awesome suspension and some slicks to boot. But thanx again for the help
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Mikes99Dakota
GenIII
10/27/2005
09:53:04
| RE: crappy traction
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I have the 275/60/15s BFGs Radial T/As and they grip pretty good. I have my tire pressure always set at 26-27 psi....due for the reason of no weight in the rear and excessive center wheel wear on the tires. I can hook decently but still burn them a bit off the line.
1999 RC Auto 5.2L
Mopar PPH, Magnaflow 3" w/cut-out, 3.90s/Suregrip, 50mm Fastman TB
Track Times:
9.47 @ 72.21mph
14.89 @ 91.33 mph
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stu
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2005
10:35:49
| RE: crappy traction
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I run michlins LTX and so far have been the best tire Ive had over bf goorich and goodyear.
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that guy
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2005
15:41:30
| RE: crappy traction
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go to a larger rim size. 20's are harder to spin than the 17's
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Mopar318
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2005
16:42:02
| RE: crappy traction
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"go to a larger rim size. 20's are harder to spin than the 17's"
Thats the funniest thing I ever heard. The only reason big ass rims dont spin because they wiegh some much more and the tires are bigger in diameter. If big rims didnt spin then why do Most drag cars use 15" rims.
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2005
17:08:01
| RE: crappy traction
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I mostly disagree > Although the weight of the 20's is somewhat heavier the weight isn't the real desiding facture here > It's the size that kills the spin > they change your gear ratio and there fore you lose power and still lose the race > If your going to make a change go with wider tires/wheels and go with soft rubber > Won't last as long but you will get bite
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rick
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2005
22:40:52
| RE: crappy traction
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thats a good suggestion about the twenties but i believe if you go with a bigger rims and a 30 series tire it maintains pretty close to overall stock diameter in tire so wont have to recalibrate the speedo or screw up the gear ratio. But i like the ride quality of the 17s, more sidewall smoother ride. And besides chrome dont get ya home lol.
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Mopar318
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2005
22:55:23
| RE: crappy traction
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OBIO3: Thats what I meant when is said the rims are so much bigger. Thats why them kids that drive around with their 20's tucks in the wheel wells are so slow. They might run a 16 stock but with those news large diamter wheels they could be running 17's. I have 255/60/15 tires on my truck and it will just chirp on take off. With my old 215/75/15 tires I could spin them going 50+ MPH.
Rick: 30 series tires might handle good but they are not good for traction. The side wall is like a steel wall. They are just not soft enough. Also the tire places usually charge an azz loud to put them on if you did not buy them there.
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rick
Dodge Dakota
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10/27/2005
23:10:33
| RE: crappy traction
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yeah believe me i would def never get twenties maybe 18s but thats it. those twenties are meant for show purposes only anyways and provide no performance enhancement to the vehicle at all. Twenties and up are only to impress the homeboys in the hood anyways. Ha ha ha Needless to say i just got my 98 rt cc about a few weeks ago the thing is cherry i only paid 7 for it with 80,000 on it i think i got a good deal the only problem is the headers are cracked at the collector but just bought some good ole gibsons to take care of that issue.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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10/28/2005
10:25:29
| RE: crappy traction
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Changing to a larger wheel won't help you. As has been said, they are heavier and would be more difficult to get moving, so would probably slow you down. They are also more difficult to make them stop. All that spinning mass takes energy to change.
Changing to a larger diameter TIRE would change your final drive ratio for the worse. A smaller diameter tire would improve your 1/4 mile times slightly. But would probably increase your traction problems by increasing torque application.
Changing to a wider tire on a smaller rim would make the most improvement. Like Mopar318 said, thee's a reason drag racers use a 15" tire.
You already have good tires and rims. Don't waste money replacing them. Spend your time and money making them work better.
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.DOC.
Dodge Dakota
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10/28/2005
23:39:25
|  RE: crappy traction
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Rick,
I found two items I've employed that might help your traction woes:
1) Roadmaster Active Suspension.
This will help reduce axle-wrap and keep your tires on the road; cost was about $169 from Summitt. Does other neat stuff as well-check their web site.
2) Have your tires sieped (pardon the spelling-I'm away from my dictionary) at a good tire shop.
The cuts to the face of the tire's tread really improve the 'bite' of the tires on dry pavement and also improve wet traction.
Relatively inexpensive, and should help,...
Doc
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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10/28/2005
23:43:49
| RE: crappy traction
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Doc, did you really notice an improvement with siping? I've only heard of that for ice and snow, never dry traction. Do you have problems with chunking?
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.DOC.
Dodge Dakota
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10/31/2005
11:32:55
| RE: crappy traction
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.boB,
Mo chunking, improved dry traction as well as water shed improvement.
Dry traction was so improved with both the RAS and siping that, prior to installation on the KB, it was near always hook-up with no tire spin.
With the KB, it is a different matter. ;-})
Rick's problem is not unusual. Weight transfer in a truck is a very tricky thing. If you build the suspension to give track-like performance, the daily driving bites the big wet weenie, and you can also forget any 'truck-like' use.
I think Rick's biggest challenge is getting a tire that has a good enough contact patch and learning how to put power down as efficiently as possible to minimize tire spin.
While some think 18" and 20" rims look hot, it isn't going to be the rim that makes contact with the street, but the tire. For street use, big rims are for looks, and not performance. Reduction in sidewall flex improves cornering, but out trucks never see driving that would benefit from low profile tires.
Sorry for the digression.
.boB, I'm happy with the siping-no problems, no apparent 'extra' wear, no noise (TOYO All Terrain).
Doc
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toolfan
Dodge Dakota
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10/31/2005
12:13:21
| RE: crappy traction
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the bfgs radail T/As i have are great for high speed corning and the dak in it's self handles like a sports car.
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Mopar318
Dodge Dakota
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10/31/2005
18:09:01
| RE: crappy traction
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Here is what propels my 96 dakota down the track in 14.9 seconds with a 3.55 open diff.
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toolfan
Dodge Dakota
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10/31/2005
19:28:45
| RE: crappy traction
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Kelly charger? i have never heard of that brand of tire, but if your pulling 14.9s down the 1/4 with an open diff. than that means those tires are grabbing for their life.:0
Mikes99Dakota
how much did you get your BFGoodrich Radail T/A's for?
i paid $435 for 4 mounted and balanced
Big O Tires.
size p275/60/15r
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Mopar318
Dodge Dakota
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10/31/2005
20:21:22
| RE: crappy traction
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I got the tires at tire barn for $74 a piece and put them at school. They hook up much better than the 235/75/15's on 15X6 rims but I still get some wheel spin. I pulled a 14.9 @ 91 MPH on the dyno with horrible traction or so it seemed. when I went to the track It pulled the same time but it was also a lot hotter out that day.
Mikes99dakota: Im pulling almost the exact time as you. I think im going to go with TB next. Did you gain much with the throttle body? Or should I gear it.
1996 dakota, 318, auto, 3.55 open diff
Gibson headers, JBA Y-pipe, Carsound cat, Custom dual exhaust, K&N intake, home built IAT adjuster, 3923 plugs, and a 180 stat, new style 15X8 rims with 255/60/15 Kelly chargers
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toolfan
Dodge Dakota
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10/31/2005
22:30:22
| RE: crappy traction
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Message:
auto class is awesome but are Ta got made at me for using the tire machine to much.
i was going to get my gears out of a jeep with lsd and hopefully 3.90 gears.
it suck being LSDless
nice truck bytheway.
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