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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2005
19:22:51
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 Subject: 318 Running rough
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I just put a new computer in my 318 to get it running again. Short story is I drove it the night previous, the next day it would not start. Replaced a bunch of parts, eventually the computer and now it's running again.
When I start the engine it revs up to about 1500 RPM and then works itself down to around 400 or 500. If you try driving it, it 'coughs' or 'hiccups' (carb backfire?). The truck was down for about a month and a half and probably about 1/10th a tank of gas. Could it be bad fuel, or should I be looking for something else. Everything I've read says bad fuel just causes low performance and hard starting.
Thanks, I'd eventually like to drive my Dakota again.
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2005
21:56:55
| RE: 318 Running rough
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Forum diagnosis isn't always the best, but you COULD have some bad fuel- maybe some water or sediment in the bottem of the tank. Replacing the "sock" on your fuel pump isn't easy, but most Chryslers have a tendency to do that, especially when they're older. Check aftermarket for a sock- I think they're avaialbe seperate from the pump. A new fuel filter would be relatively cheap insurance.
Otherwise, rough running can be caused by a vaccum leak somewhere, (look for split hoses/fittings), or an EGR valve starting to go (not uncommon for the 3.9 anyway).
How about spark plugs- do they tell you anything? Are they sooty, bright white, or are the insulators cracked on them? Plugs would be a good thing to check as they can tell you things about what your engine is doing sometimes.
Approximately what year/mileage is this truck?
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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2005
22:08:37
| RE: 318 Running rough
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Truck is a 91 with about 130,000 miles on it. I put 2 gallons of fresh fuel in it and some fuel stabilizer, but I will run it tomorrow. I also picked up some new plugs just in case and also a fuel filter. I need to get this running at least good enough to get out of the apt. complex to some place where I can work on it more agressively. I'll look at the plugs tomorrow when I have the daylight back.
Out of curiosity, if the guy sent me a computer for a V6 instead of a V8, would it run like this? The computer isn't throwing any codes either.
As a side note, I'm trying to keep this thing running since I don't have a lot of options right now, do you know of anyone who sells a helicoil kit for the brake calipers slider pins? :)
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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/22/2005
22:11:15
| RE: 318 Running rough
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I did have an massive backfire when I was trying to get this running with the old computer, all the old folks thought a transformer had blown :P Could that damage the EGR?
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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
10:26:34
| RE: 318 Running rough
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Well the computer is the right computer. I went out this morning and it wouldn't fire, just cranked. I don't get it.
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davec
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
11:06:42
| RE: 318 Running rough
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After all you've mentioned I would definately look at the spark plugs. I'm willing to bet you've been cranking it like crazy trying to get it started. The plugs are sure to be fouled out. If that is the case, it most likely will cause the truck to not start. Check the plugs before you waste anymore time.
No offense, but too many times guys just start replacing things. You are better off to take a little time, do some research, and find out what the problem is. Start with the basics. Air, fuel, spark. If one is missing (or is not good enough) the truck just won't work properly. And when you are replacing computers, and the like, you are much better off to use the RIGHT parts. There's just too many IF's when you use different parts. It's like comparing apples to oranges, they're just not the same. Hope you figure it out.
dave
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01Motorsport
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
11:12:35
| RE: 318 Running rough
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I had a '92 5.2 Dak once. Spray some carb cleaner into the throttle body, and reach in with a rag as far as you can and swab the throat. Have you replaced the PCV valve? How old are the plug wires, and are they in the right location? Have you replaced the distributor cap and rotor? If you left the truck sitting with only 1/10th tank level, you will have considerable water in the fuel from condensation. Try a gas treatment like STP, or STP concentrated (black bottle) injector cleaner. Ditto on the fuel filter and spark plug checks. Check to see if the plug wires are connected well, and that one of the spark plugs is not cracked or broken. I am assuming that the timing/ distibutor position hasn't changed. Good luck...
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01Motorsport
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
11:18:50
| RE: 318 Running rough
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Don't let the backfire issue continue, as this can ruin the catalytic converter. Since you truck has 130K, the converter itself could be partially plugged. I had to replace the one on my '92 around 150K, because the of a rattle from the insides breaking apart. A good aftermarket cat. runs about $130 installed.
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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
14:00:38
| RE: 318 Running rough
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I replaced the computer because the power to the fuel pump and ignition coil was good, the magnetic pickup was replaced, fuel was comming out the injectors and everything else seemed fine. But when I put a spark tester on the ignition lead, I would only get one single spark off the coil when I tried to start the truck. I had some problems a couple of weeks earlier where the ignition wire came loose from the ignition coil(spring clip broke) and I think that the HV might have arced over to the primary termals and damaged the computer.
It was a last ditch effort. When I plugged the new computer in, it fired right up but ran lousy, now it won't even start again. I'll do some more work on it this afternoon and check the plugs.
New distributor pickup, new wires, new TPS, new distributor cap/rotor, ASD relay, ignition coil and of course, computer. As for the computer, I told the guy what I needed, he shipped it to me, I installed it, so I don't know where you're comming on from that, it's not like I pulled it out of a Pinto or something :D
I'll admit I'm no mechanic, I've replaced the hubs, rear axel bearings, transfer case, etc but I don't do this for a living and don't have 20 years of experience, which is why I ask here :)
Plug wires are in the right locations.. They sold me EMI reducing wires, I know they're also know as resistor wires, could those be a problem as well? The old ones were as well, but maybe these are high resistance?
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davec
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
14:16:23
| RE: 318 Running rough
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Take it easy man, like I said, no offense. I wasn't bashing you and your efforts, but simply making a general point. I hate to see guys spend all kinds of cash trying to fix their rides by throwing parts at them. You seem to have done your homework and performed some good diagnostics yourself. You don't have to be a mechanic or have 20 years experience, normally some common sense goes a long way. I'm sure it's something stupid, it usually is. Sorry for stepping on your toes. Good luck man...
Dave
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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
14:25:09
| RE: 318 Running rough
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No worries man, I'm just really getting bent out of shape over this truck, it's my only wheels and it's gonna cost me my job(thus everything else) if I don't get it going soon.
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davec
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
14:45:33
| RE: 318 Running rough
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I'm thinking that even if your plugs wires were bad, they would not likely cause a no start. Unless they were really really bad. I have a feeling that the plugs are fouled. Only because I went through the same thing once before. Let us know what you find.
dave
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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
18:10:06
| RE: 318 Running rough
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Plugs were not too bad, just black on the insulator from running rich, replaced them anwyays and still no fire.
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
18:26:49
| RE: 318 Running rough
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Forgive me if you already said so, but did you put a crank position sensor in it? Could be the cause of your problems. If it failed, it would cause the car to not start, or crarnk for an extended interval. Other than that, did you actually do a pressure test at the fuel rail for fuel PSI? Sounds like your truck was running rich if your insulators were blackened. Backfire is probably occuring in the exhaust where gas is pooling up and igniting when you open the throttle a bit.
It is possible that you have the wrong computer...Why not check your local junkyard? They're (almost) all tied together by the EDEN network, they can probably get you the computer for the exact year you're looking for, even if they don't have it on site.
Also, check for any broken vaccum lines or or fittings. One last thing, which is a dumb question, but it happens to the best of us. Are the sparkplug wires on in the right order? I know, I know, but I've seen my Dad do it before, especially if you're a little bit tired, or if the ink you marked the distributor cap with gets a little smudged...
Good luck
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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
19:00:37
| RE: 318 Running rough
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I checked the wiring with the haynes manual, it says I did it right. I just noticed after cranking it tonight it's NOW throwing a code which is..
"11 No ignition reference signal detected during cranking (bad Hall effect) OR timing belt skipped one or more teeth; OR loss of either camshaft or crankshaft position sensor. Can cause the engine to stop working entirely with no limp-home mode. "
I did replace the crank sensor, but maybe it has gone bad/was defective or I didn't get the distributor back in the right place after replacing the crank sensor. I'll check more tomorrow.
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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
19:07:47
| RE: 318 Running rough
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BTW: I replaced the timing chains 6 months ago so it should be nice and tight.
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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
19:20:35
| RE: 318 Running rough
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Here are the plugs
http://www.thaltech.com/plugs.jpg (big picture)
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2005
21:44:27
| RE: 318 Running rough
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well, those plugs are done I think, so you did well replacing 'em. Definately richness going on there. Maybe a valve seal going bad, or leaking PCV valve somewhere by the looks of the one plug, but that's not your problem obviously.
I am doubting that your timing chain skipped a tooth, although anything is possible. If you did the chain 6 months ago and bungled it up, it wouldn't have ran 6 months ago. I suspect you would have heard a tensioner go before it actually skipped too, although it might not hurt to double check...
Hall effect sensor could be it, and there is another possibility too, but I forget it at the moment. Ran into it on a 360 I was working on with my dad about 2 weeks ago. I'll talk to him about it tonight, and maybe post back if it's relavent.
Crank sensor defective or incorrectly installed is possible, but seems like a less-likely problem.
Definately get a check on the distributor- that could certainly cause bacfiring, running like crap, and not running at all.
Good Luck.
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JonC
Dodge Dakota
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9/24/2005
12:13:42
| RE: 318 Running rough
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The new magnetic pickup I bought for the distributor was bad, I put the old one back in and it runs great and with the new computer my ABS light is out as well. Thanks for your time and effort guys, I appreciate it.
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/24/2005
15:24:08
| RE: 318 Running rough
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good deal, glad to hear you got everything running OK.
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razorback
Dodge Dakota
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1/19/2011
20:08:23
| RE: 3.9 driving me crazy
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Sorry for injecting this into this thread,but seems appropo here. I have a 92 3,9. I have a problem with it stars right up runs and revs in the driveway like a racecar, then if i go low speeds thru nieghborhood it starts stuttering stalling backfiring up thru the TBI throat and until i break thru it with some acceleration then it runs like a scalled dog, soon as i slow down here we go again. I have a bad ignition switch. I havenewplugs, wires, coil. acts like its running outs gas. I check fuel filter there was quite a bit of black stuff in there drained and replaced. started it right up. stomped it down the road trying to get the gas treatment running thru it. back to spitting and popping. its my only transportation at the moment, hope you guys can help me THX, RZb
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