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fuzzy
Dodge Dakota
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9/02/2005
21:19:01
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 Subject: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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I got bit by the new and shiny bug the other day and bought a 2004 Dakota with a 4.7, 5speed, 3.55 limited slip. It seems to be a good truck, but I am coming from a 97 club cab 5.2 (now 5.9) with the same tranny and axle. My problem is that the 4.7 just feels like a V6 in comparison. I am not bashing the 4.7, but is there something wrong here?
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Bill H.
Dodge Dakota
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9/02/2005
22:07:20
|  RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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I would say so. I'm very happy with my 2000 Dak Quad Cab 4X4. It has all the power and zip it needs. I pull trailers with it as well and there are no complaints there either.
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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9/02/2005
22:48:40
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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is it a quad? even if it isn't, 3.55's are still really high gears, get some 4.10's and I promise you'll be happy.
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ecdak
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2005
00:43:52
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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I have an 02 qc slt 4.7 with 3.55 gears and an auto. It hauls ass. As i do not tow anything I can not tell you about that. I do get horrible mileage though 14mpg is the best I can muster.
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wow
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2005
02:31:05
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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i would kill for 14mpg in my 02 4.7 quad!
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Kowalski
GenIII
9/03/2005
09:10:16
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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Could be something wrong; mine doesn't feel anything like the sluggish 6. You are mistaken about it having the same tranny.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Idano
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2005
11:34:47
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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Kowalski,
Don't all the V-8 5 speed Dakotas use an NV3500?
I thought the tranny usage was;
4 banger- NV1500
V-6- AX15 early models, NV3500 newer models
V-8- NV3500
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318SPRT
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2005
12:25:56
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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Maybe it has the "death flash"? Before I bought my 5.2 I test drove several 4.7's and one I'm sure had it done to it. The other two felt like they had more throttle response. I still like my 5.2 but the 4.7 is just as nice.
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2005
21:50:01
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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I have to agree- something must be fishy there. My opinion of the 4.7 is that it was a real hotrod when I test drove one. And that was a quad cab auto. 3.55s should be more than low enough unless you're towing something HEAVY. Even then, my brother's F-150 with 4.6 and manual can tow plenty with just 3.55s, and believe me, the Dakota has way more power.
"feels like a V6" in what way? If you mean it lacks low end torque, it's possible you give up a little with the 4.7 versus the 5.2- I've never driven a 5.2 though so I can't really comment. I know the 3.7 likes to be wound around 4-6 grand to make serious power. I have limited driving time in the 4.7, but it shouldn't need to be wound like that anyway. If it just lacks power in general there's something wrong for sure though.
I also like to think about what a lot of the "old school" hotrodders say about modern cars. I know a guy who drag raced corvettes through the late 60s and 70s. According to him a '02 Chevy Camero SS "doesn't run fast". If you really look at 1/4 mile times, I bet the 'vettes he was racing weren't all that much faster. It's just the level of refinement in the Camero is just so far above what he's used to, you don't get the same rush you percieved with the older cars.
Having driven an '04 Z06 corvette and a '71 454, I can say the 454 felt a hell of a lot faster, mostly because there was no power brakes, no power steering, a crummy chasis in general, crappy shifter, hard ride, and just a general lack of refinement. The fact is the Z06 is many times faster than the 454, but you would hardly realize it (alhtough to be fair, the Z06 is pretty intense)
If you had a 5.2 and converted it to a 5.9, I'm assuming you didn't just put in a stock 5.9. I would say that the 4.7 is going to feel whimpier in comparison to a mildly built 5.9, which can easily top 350-400 horsepower, but it should by no means feel as if it lacks power.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2005
22:03:44
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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I also wonder about the "Death Flash" problem. My old 00 CC 4.7 auto felt like it hauled azz compared to my 03 QC 4.7 auto. The 2 trucks are basically the same except for the extra 400# of the QC, not enough to make a huge difference, but the QC seems a lot slower. The only thing that the OO CC has over the 03 QC is the oo was never Death Flashed, I assume the Death Flash was incorporated into the 03's PCM, basically neutering my truck :-(
Sucks that I'll have to pay $300 for a SC so the death flash is exterminated.
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fuzzy
Dodge Dakota
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9/03/2005
22:53:42
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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The "Death Flash" sounds like it may be the problem. I did drive a 4.7 Dakota when they were first released and it impressed me quite a bit. Sounds like they changed the mapping since then. I know that the OHC motor is not going to make torque like the good ol pushrod motors, but I would expect it to feel better then it does at the moment. I'm sure that it's nothing that a little forced induction can't fix. The 5.9 in my 97 was not modified, just swapped from an RT truck.
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jdb
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2005
00:47:26
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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I don't know about a dakota, but I have a 5.9 ram that is identical to my dads 4.7 ram. The 4.7 ram seems very weak compared to my 5.9. The 4.7 starts feeling peppy once the rpms are up, about the rpm that the 5.9 falls flat. The 5.9 will blow away the 4.7 off the line, but I think the 4.7 would take the 5.9 in a 60mph kickdown.
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Kowalski
GenIII
9/04/2005
10:33:39
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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Didn't know you meant the standard tranny - auto is also a 5 speed.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2005
23:22:09
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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Fuzzy, you're really getting a bit fuzzy here:
'I know that the OHC motor is not going to make torque like the good ol pushrod motors, '
What are you talking about? The 4.7 is KNOWN, to be a very torqey motor. It is half a liter smaller.
My 01, 4.7, QC, 5speed,(you DID mean Manual-right?) 3.55 gears, with a few bolt on mods, including a super chips tuner-that only dynoed a MAX on premium, etc., of only 8 additional HP
STILL, after doing the math, layed down 362 ft/lbs
of torque at the crank.
No much torque? It's got one of the initially high, FLATTEST torque curves you'll ever see on a dyno graph.
my 2 cents.
318, 360, RIP!
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fuzzy
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2005
23:40:27
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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Making torque like the push rod motors would mean not having to rev the hell out of it to get anything done. We'll see tomorrow when I tow the boat. I did drive the 97 for a while tonight and it is not 318,360 RIP as your signature says. As far as my two trucks, there is no comparison. I would like to think that a power programmer or a flash will bring the new one around. It really is a neat truck, and no doubt the 4.7 is a good package. I have driven some (stock) that were impressive. I do like the 18.97MPG however.
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Super-bee
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2005
01:51:20
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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318 RIP?
havent you been reading these forums long, you cant kill them easily
jsut because they stop building them doesnt mean they are a bad motor
thats the reason the Chevy 350 should have been killed LONG ago, it cant hold upt o anything, and the old ones had the same problem the old 318s did before MPI, the intakes would carbon up in the back because the cooling system is not se tup well, the back 2 cyl heat up and get plugged up
my 1990 3.9 is the same way
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
9/05/2005
14:40:35
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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Pushrod vs. OHC doesn't really have any effect on torque. How the valve timing is set up does. But a pushrod engine with the same valve timing as an OHC would NOT have more torque.
I don't think mine got the death flash. I always thought my 2003 had plenty of power vs. the 318's in friends Dodge Trucks.
There could be something wrong with that particular truck. Some people seem to get "factory freaks", ones that seem to scream and be bone stock.
Then there are people who seem to get "factory lemons" that are just dogs. Could be some stupid program glitch, sensor problem, TPS setting, etc.
Try checking a few things like the TPS setting first. If it's way low it could be less responsive.
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Kowalski
GenIII
9/05/2005
17:15:47
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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There can be at least 3 different levels of ignition advance in a stock 4.7; probably more. Fuzzy might have one with less advance - could be part of the problem. Graphite is right - where the cam is placed in the motor has no effect on torque. The 4.7 does quite well for itself if you figure torque per liter of displacement; and one way for a smaller motor to get the power of a bigger one is to rev it higher to put a similar amount of air through it. The 4.7 was designed to rev higher with lighter reciprocating parts - don't be afraid to take advantage of that.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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ID4x4
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2005
17:56:40
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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Just my 2 cents. I don't know much about engines, and, have never driven anything "really fast". Most of you would probably laugh at my prior vehicles. My 01 cc 4x4 4.7 5-speed felt powerful the day I drove it off the lot 4 1/2 years ago, even with the stock 3:55 gears. I lost a little giddy-up with my Rancho lift and 285/75/16 mts, but think I recovered some with Superchips tuner. After my money tree starts growing, H.O. cams and 4:10 gears are next. I drive the piss out of it (R.P.M.s and clutch abuse and off-road fun) still has nice power.
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Jecht
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2005
19:20:43
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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why are you comparing a 4.7 to a 5.9. of course the 5.9 would feel more powerful and make the 4.7 seem whimpy after driving the 5.9 dak. I would even know the 5.9 would feel more powerful and I never driven one. I have a 03 4.7 QC 4x4 with 3.55 gears. now thats one heavy puppy and I think the truck flies. after all I went from a 95 ranger 4 banger. and the truck to me felt like it was the fastest thing on the road. so with you going from a 5.9 to a 4.7 would feel like getting my ranger lol. it beats plenty of ricers on the roads. so they must not be that slow. it beat one of them 265 HP xterras . thats like 30 more HP more than my dak has. so I think this motor has promise. alot of people around has proven that.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
9/06/2005
01:38:22
| RE: 4.7 Buyers Remorse
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Heavier 235HP V8 still out performing a lighter 265HP V6.
Goes to show you how they match ratings in the real world.
Someone was reading off of a dyno curve chart me doo bob a few weeks back and saw that the high HP rated Nissan V6 made real low TQ until it reved up while the Dodge 4.7 V8 made like 80% of it's TQ not much over 2K RPM's.
And I can feel it when I tow as often as I do. Sometimes I've had to let mine downshift into 2nd gear to speed back up to 75-80MPH on some big hills going to Flagstaff. But I couldn't imagine trying to pull my loads with a V6 Frontier, Tacoma, or heaven forbid, a fackin' Honda Ridgeline!
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