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NDTracer
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2005
11:24:04
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 Subject: fuel pump?
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I just recently bought another Dakota (makes #3 I've owned). My first was a 87 std cab with V-6, second 91 X-cab with V-8 and this one is a 96 X-cab V-8, all 4x4.
My question is when I park the truck for almost any time period I have to wait for the pump to get fuel back to the injectors as it appears to drop the fuel. I have tried to allow the key to be turned forward to begin pumping prior to turning the starter but that doesn't seem to pump it. So I need to crank on the starter for a while until there is fuel to start the truck. I am afraid this will burn out the starter and/or the pump.
I have had a pressure check done and the pump is pushing alot of pressure. I can't recall but think they said normal is 30-40 psi and I am at 90. This may be indicating a blockage somewhere or maybe a vacuum lock. My thoughts are possibly vacuum lock and when parked releases it and thus I have to wait for the pump to get past the lock? Another thought is the "check valve" for lack of a better word is not closing which allows the fuel to flow back. This would be in the tank along with my fuel filter.
Is this a common problem? What is the solution? If it is replacing the pump does anyone know anything about where to get a reasonably priced one? I found one for $300+ and that is the cheaper one. These are Mopar so are there any downfalls to aftermarket? The thing I am thinking of is different pressure or pressurized systems which can mess up fuel economy (worse than normal) or cause other issues.
The pump so you all know is part # 4897437AA and I have been told Mopar has changed this possibly to AC4897437.
Thanks
Clint
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david1981
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2005
15:49:06
| RE: fuel pump?
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How long does it take to start? Does it stumble after it starts? I've seen several injectors bleed off pressure. Check and monitor pressure with engine off to verify you are losing pressure. If you are, re-pressurize fuel system and crimp fuel supply line to fuel rail. Monitor again. If pressure still bleeds, most likely and injector. If pressure holds its somewhere else.
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NDTracer
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2005
15:59:33
| RE: fuel pump?
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David,
I didn't ask about the loss of pressure as you asked when I had it done. The mechanic thought the ball in the tank to prevent back flow was stuck open and likely causing it so maybe the pressure stays there. He was concerned about the amount of pressure it was passing. I just don't want to spend $400 for a pump plus install and not be able to return it only to find out that wasn't the problem.
As for how long I will have to time it but probably 8-10 seconds. However if I start it and then turn off and restart it is basically instant (maybe 1 second). Yes it sometimes stumbles when it does start too. Kinda like it got flooded for a quick second.
I am planning on stalling the engine this weekend with Seafoam through the air intake thinking that could clean injectors and misc. Also I plan on dumping some in the tank when it gets down more. I am at 3/4 (22 gal) and figure I may as well get a bit more umph for it to do a good job. Any thoughts on this?
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david1981
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2005
16:12:00
| RE: fuel pump?
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I'm sorry, I didn't see the part about 90psi pressure. That is a lot. Typical for that engine is around 45-50. Hmmm...possibly a regulator problem (part of the pump). 90 psi doesn't say blockage or vaccum lock. Pressure would go down with both. It says regulator to me. 90 psi may be flooding the engine. I would want to know if you are losing pressure or not. You need to find out if you actually have 90 psi...and if you are losing that pressure before you can say its a pump or not.
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NDTracer
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2005
16:40:03
| RE: fuel pump?
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David I did call and he said yes it is loosing the pressure. His guess was the check valve not closing which is why it is dropping.
So if I get a new pump is there any aftermarkets which will be cheaper which will suffice? I don't know about spending $3-400 for a pump on an older vehicle which is my work/hunting vehicle. I am not worried about a cheaper one burning out quicker (within reason). I will only be putting on around 5k a year on this vehicle so with it at 85k now it will roll over 100 in 3 years or so and I figure I may upgrade when I hit 110-120 so in another 5-6 years.
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david1981
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2005
16:42:58
| RE: fuel pump?
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I would check with an auto zone or something similar. Their parts aren't always the best out there but they have great warranties! Check them out and see what they have. Are you installing???
They are very easy to change.
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woodrow
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2005
23:50:41
|  RE: fuel pump?
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What size fuel tank do you have,If you have a 15 gal tank I might have a pump assm for you.I bought one for my 93 thinking it was bad but then I found the bad wire under the relay box.So I have this thing sitting around here.I will sell it to you for $170 + Shipping.
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Rob C
Dodge Dakota
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8/05/2005
21:28:49
| RE: fuel pump?
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I think you should try a 50/50 mix of STP fuel injector cleaner and Marvel Mystery Oil on your next 2 tank fulls to try and loosen the stuck check valve. If you have 90 PSI your fuel pump isn't bad, the regulator most likely is. Always fix one thing at a time. Try the regulator for the high fuel pressure. The regulator lists for $72, you can get it for less than $60 at AllMoparParts.com or BuyMopar.com.
Sorry Woodrow, he said he has a 22 gallon tank, your 15 gallon pump isn't the same.
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woodrow
Dodge Dakota
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8/05/2005
22:30:19
| RE: fuel pump?
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OOPS!!!!! That's what I get for speed reading..Sorry guys
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NDTracer
Dodge Dakota
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8/07/2005
14:24:49
| RE: fuel pump?
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Isn't the regulator a part of the whole pump assembly? I found a entire system for $174 so it isn't that bad I guess and then I could only do the repair once too I am not sure. I did add a can of seafoam in ~11 gallons of fuel. I have burned about 5 gallons of that and so far no change. Would the mixture of the two work that much better?
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Rob C
Dodge Dakota
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8/07/2005
18:47:00
| RE: fuel pump?
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The STP Fuel Injector cleaner (Black bottle) is to remove dirt, varnish and other deposits that build up in your fuel system. The Marvel Mystery Oil is to lubricate the moving components in your fuel system (fuel injectors, check valves, fuel pumps and regulators) in order to help restore smooth movement of the parts and more normal operation, hopefully.
I don't know that much about SeaFoam but, I thought it was for removing combustion chamber deposits.
All I know is that I've had the stuck check valve problem on 2 fuel injected vehicles and the mixture has always worked to correct the 'long cranking times' due to stuck valve. The $6 it'll cost to buy the STP and MM oil is much cheaper than a new fuel pump.
As far as the regulator being part of the fuel pump, AllMoparParts.com lists it separate from the fuel pump. http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=213896
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tlc361
Dodge Dakota
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8/07/2005
21:23:05
| RE: fuel pump?
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Gentle people a word of caution.
I had similar problems and yes it was the check valve at the fuelpump. The dealer fixed it after I showed them the printout I got off this site,(replacing the fuelpump).
Now this is where it gets bad.
The dealer replaced the pump assembly and sent me on my way. This was great for a while. I then got the smell of gas around the bed drivers side. After several trips and finally crawling under it I found damp dust on the top of the tank. The cover of the pump assembly had come loose.
I hand tighten it and went to the dealer and they "fixed" it.
Later I had the smell of gas again. Up shot is the dealer did the right things replacing parts, how ever Dodge had them reuse the pump seal. This seal continued to leak, and the only way they could get a new seal was getting a new fueltank assembly.
According to the service manager (a friend of mine) Chrysler would not supply the seal separately. They could only get them with a new tank.
The dealer used the Federal Emmisions law and declared my tank defective, and ordered a new tank assembly.
This is the only thing that fixed the leak caused by replacing the fuelpump.
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NDTracer
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2005
08:08:22
| RE: fuel pump?
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tlc,
Which pump seal are you referring? I would have thought the seal would come with a new pump but your saying it didn't for you. Was that a Mopar part or off brand? Was the labor for all of this covered?
Were you implying to simply look out for this or using the STP & Marvel?
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Rob C
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2005
17:27:39
| RE: fuel pump?
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He was just relaying a situation that he ran into when having his fuel pump replaced. He's talking about the big O-ring seal that seals the fuel pump access to the tank. He's not saying don't use STP and MM Oil together, it'll ruin your fuel pump seal.
If you're still thinking about replacing your fuel pump first, I can see this is going to be a long and costly repair for you. Unless you know for sure that the regulator is part of the fuel pump. You probably should at least talk to the parts guy at the dealer first. Don't start spending money on expensive parts until you've isolated the problem. That way when you do spend the money, it for the part that's going to fix it. You don't want a new fuel pump and you're still reading 90 PSI. Your symptoms indicate you have more than one problem.
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tlc361
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2005
18:09:01
|  RE: fuel pump?
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Rob C is correct.
I was offering a heads up on a problem I had that may happen when the fuelpump is removed from the tank. All parts were Mopar factory parts.
Hopefully others can avoid this problem by talking to the service person before any work is done.
The problems and the corrective action taken by the dealer was covered by the warrentee. They didn't charge me the $100 deductable after I complained that this was an ongoing problem related to the first complaint.
Just a note on cleaners in the tank, I use Berrymans B-12 Chemtool. It seems to work great for me, just don't get any on a painted surface!
Hope I offered some helpful info.
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Woodrow
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2005
18:40:17
| RE: fuel pump?
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I got the big rubber O-ring seal with my fuel pump.I think someone at your local dealer is feeding you a line,but hey you got a new tank.No complaints here, at least it is fixed.
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NDTracer
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2005
08:20:17
| RE: fuel pump?
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I am not planning on fixing the pump for now as I too want to resolve what is causing it first.
Now for the mixture. Are you saying to mix in the tank for 2 tank fulls? Assuming both would treat 20 gallons then add 1/2 of each bottle for one tank and then when refilling add the second half? Or are you saying add the STP for a tank and then the next tank use the MM? I believe you meant the first but want to know for sure. This will definately be a cheaper solution.
The only reason I wouldn't think this would work and maybe I am wrong is I thought the check valve has a diaphram type of seal. That being if it is leaking it likely has a hole not being stuck. That is the impression I got from one parts store (not Mopar parts).
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Rob C
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2005
21:52:08
| RE: fuel pump?
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The check valve is usually a ball and spring type valve mounted on the fuel pump output.
Buy a bottle of STP and a bottle of MM Oil, pour half of STP into tank before filling up plus an equal amount of MM Oil in at the same time(Marvel Mystery oil usually comes in a quart container so, don't add half the container), then fill your tank. Repeat again on your next fill up.
This should clean and loosen your check valve. Let us know what happens.
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NDTracer
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2005
23:03:52
| RE: fuel pump?
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Well I got the additives but filled up first thinking I could get the same effect adding latter. Are you saying that it won't mix as good? I would think they would mix the same.
On a side note I am wondering if I really have the 22 gallon tank. The needle was pointing to E and I filled (no light yet) and I was only able to put in 14.8 gallons so I am not sure there was another 7 gallons in the tank but could have been since the light didn't come on. As for the mixture. Both say they treat up to 20 or so gallons so I think I could do half a bottle of each unless I misunderstand your comment. The MM bottle is 12 oz as is the STP.
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NDTracer
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2005
06:21:11
| RE: fuel pump?
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I had the same problem with my 95dak ifthe 96 is the same the pressure regulator and filter are made together and are not in the pump assy. but on top of it you still have to pull the tank or bed to get at it. best i can remember it was around 50 bucks for the part. dealer only! IT fixed i and it isn't abad idea to change the filter just poor engineering.
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Rob C
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2005
12:46:54
| RE: fuel pump?
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The additives mix better when you pour them into a nearly empty tank and then add fuel. If you read the instructions on the bottle that's what it says to do. Adding with a full tank the additives may just float on the top. Maybe if you drove it over a very rough road or took it off-road, it may just mix.
It's just better to add before filling the tank.
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