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ewraven
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2006
15:37:10
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 Subject: RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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Good luck. And just be sure to adhere to the instructions on the can of Sea Foam.
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2006
01:52:47
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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Not everybody will agree with this but I'm convinced the plugs are not the pinging problem. Going a number colder helps some totally, helps others some and again others get no help at all.Does this not tell you that there is some other problem causing the pinging and some of the trucks are more effected then others. Reason being is explainable. The plenun gasket can have anywhere from a very small leak to a large leak making for veriables explaining what I just said. differant brands of gas are of differant qualities.The discount stations use no aditives at all. Good stations like Conaco use the most. In my area Sinclar uses none and there not a diacount station. So be carefull and know for sure your getting good gas. Your main reason here is carbin buildup and fouled injectors.Carbin being another ping causer.
Stock plugs have a longer protruding nose into the chamber then colder plugs. In reality on the highway the incoming rush of air/fuel passes over this protrusion cooling the plug and turning it into a cold plug in theory. In town at slow speed the opisite happens . It runs hotter causing carbin deposits to burn off better. All good things. Dodge spent a lot of time testing to determine what HEAT RANG plug your engine needed.My truck is a 99 4x4 CC 5.2L and does not ping nor has it ever telling me my plenum gasket is holding and I have no carbin problem.As I said, Plugs are not the issue. You got a ping git to the bottom of it. Somewhere you got a problem.
So many problems .... So little time
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jayb
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2006
02:21:42
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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pinging is going to be caused by carbon build up, as said b4. if you run good gas and have good plugs that wont happen. its not a dodge thing. its a thing.
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ewraven
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2006
14:18:35
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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In the USA; it is federal law that all gasonline has to have a certain level of detergent in it.
Check out this site for gas companies that go above and beyond the normal level of gasoline detergents.
http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
Top Tier is explained on that site I think; but in short, Top Tier is a higher level of additives that a few of the major car manufacturers came up with for there cars to run well and to stay carbon free. These levels are higher than the Federal Government requirements; that list on that site are the oil companies who voluntarily meet those Top Tier requirements.
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2006
16:28:53
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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ewraven.... With due respect. I see nothing there about the government controling additives. I do know gasoline must meet octain ratings plus summer/winter blends as required by government/state. This site is saying what car manufactures requirements are to PREVENT carbin buildup and plugged injectors. Car manufacturers do not make laws. That said, how many people do you think are aware of this. I think darn few. Additives ARE NOT added by the gas manufacturer. They are added at the loading dock as the tanker trucks are loaded for delivery and the amounts added are in the amount requested by the ststion owners such as conaco or 76 or phillips. As I stated. Not all gas has the same amount of additives in it and some put none. It's not like the car manufacturers are going to go checking stations and puting up signs saying this gas will not keep our engines clean. It is totally up to use to figure this out. As I stated in my other post, in my area SINCLAR does not put additives in there gas. They are not a discount service and charge full price for there gas. Top tier as I read it are stations that willingly meet minimum requirements of the manufacturers with the option of using more if they choose to do so. Additives are expensive reducing profit. To add more then required to meet manufacturer requirements I believe would be few and far between. Go back to the site and click WHY THE TIER on the black line. I'm always willing to learn. Anyones opinion is worth debating.
So many problems .... So little time
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ewraven
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2006
19:03:22
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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I think you should report that Sinclair station to the EPA...
"EPA requires the use of additives to control the formation of engine and fuel supply system deposits in all U.S. gasoline."
"As of August 1, 1997, gasoline retailers have been required to ensure that all gasoline sold or transferred to the ultimate consumer is properly additized with certified detergents"
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/additive/fact7gda.htm
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2006
00:20:29
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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I'm going to do some reading on this to determine if were talking about the same additives. I do know some are manditory and some are manufacture needed options. and it is those options that screw us up.
So many problems .... So little time
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2006
00:55:13
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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This pretty much explains what I am saying. That there are govt. requirements is correct but as I said they are not near enough for lots of engines and only a few companies put enough in to help most everybody although they are not required to do so
Required Additive Use
Because of this relationship between decreased deposits and decreased emissions, all motor gasoline sold in the United States must contain an additive that provides a minimum level of deposit control performance. This requirement was established by the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 and became effective in January 1995.A similar requirement has been in effect in California since January 1992. Additive manufacturers are required to obtain EPA certification for their additives. The certification request must include documentation of the additive's effectiveness in specified fuel injector keep-clean and intake valve keep-clean tests (see sidebar) when evaluated with specified test fuels. A similar detergency requirement exists in Thailand.
Before selling any gasoline, gasoline marketers must add a certified deposit control additive to their gasoline at the certification concentration level or higher. Experience has shown that the minimum certification dosage is not very effective in controlling deposits in certain fuels and engines. This minimum level is referred to as the lowest additive concentration or LAC. Higher concentrations provide improved performance; for instance, changing keep-clean performance to cleanup performance. Historically, some gasoline brands have provided much higher deposit control performance than the minimum level of certification performance required by the EPA. For competitive reasons, they probably will continue to do so.
Aftermarket Additives
2
Footnotes
2 Aftermarket additives are intended to be added by the customer to a gasoline (or oil) already in the customers vehicle.
Engine deposits are affected by engine design, driving conditions, gasoline base fuel quality, and gasoline additives. Although all gasoline must contain a deposit control additive, some additives are less effective than others or are used at minimum concentration levels that are not very effective. In addition, some engine designs form heavier deposits than others, and some engine designs are extremely sensitive to deposits that do form. Aftermarket deposit control additives are available that can clean up deposits that have formed due to these circumstances. Treating one tankful of gasoline with the aftermarket additive is often sufficient. However, additive chemistry and dosage play large roles in determining the effectiveness of the product. Polyether amine-based aftermarket additives have been shown to be particularly effective at providing both excellent intake system and combustion chamber deposit cleanup.
Were both correct and this conferms what I was trying to say. paying attention to where you buy your gas is important. and the not so good gas is legal, just not what your engine needs.
So many problems ..... So little time
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Xrated
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2006
22:10:21
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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OBIO3 ,i took your advices too and i went to the parts store and bought the Champion Truck Plugs.I installed them tonight. Im really impressed , just like jpkomm, i had standard champions on it and its idling so smooth now! Im feeling more response too!. Thanks for the advice :)
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Chris G.
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2006
22:57:51
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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I have the Champion Iridium plugs. They are soooo nice.
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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3/22/2006
10:39:30
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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xrated..... Most in here are not going to believe the champion truck plug is the best answer for our trucks. The few like yourself that make the change well become champion truck plug users for life. I been using them for years and never a single problem. A nice plus is, thay have a long life if you care to puch some extra miles before replacing them.
So many problems .... So little time
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ewraven
Dodge Dakota
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3/23/2006
19:05:10
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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"This pretty much explains what I am saying. That there are govt. requirements is correct but as I said they are not near enough for lots of engines and only a few companies put enough in to help most everybody although they are not required to do so"
No offense; but you haven't been saying that all along, you were saying that some gas didn't have any additives in it at all. This is quoted from your post above...
"Not all gas has the same amount of additives in it and some put none."
They are required by law to put additives in the gasoline; it is the law and you obviously didn't know that by what you stated in the quoted text.
And what I've been saying all along...
The law is that they must have the additives; a bare minimum level like you posted though. The Top Tier gasolines go above and beyond that to meet the actual manufacturer recommendations for keeping there engines clean and deposit free. If you want to know who those are that put enough additives in to help "most everybody" then look below, here is the list...
www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html
"QuikTrip
Chevron
Conoco
Phillips
76
Shell
Entec Stations
MFA Oil Company
Kwik Trip/Kwik Star
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Chevron-Canada
Aloha Petroleum
Jiffy Mart
Mahalo
Tri-Par Oil Company"
This is probably all mute if you run a fuel system treatment and an induction cleaner through the engine on a regular basis. But most people won't know to do that. lol Like the previous owner of my Dakota!!! I had never heard of Sea Foam making such a big improvement on any engine before.
I do agree that the EPA needs to increase the minimum required levels of additives. But it is good that those four auto manufacturers got together to produce the Top Tier standards and that there are oil companies actively participating.
Anyone else notice that Exxon isn't on that Top Tier list though? I think that is really strange since they charge a premium for there gasoline and think so highly of it. I'd also think that they are the one oil company that could afford it with all of these billions of dollars in quarterly profits that they've been posting.
I did a search of the Exxon site for "Top Tier" and got nothing.
A similar search at the Shell website brought up this document...
http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=us-en&FC2=&FC3=/us-en/html/iwgen/news_and_library/press_releases/2004/top_tier_gasolines_06122004.html
"All Shell gasolines meet “Top Tier” gasoline standard introduced by BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota
06 Dec 2004
While the majority of gasolines on the market today contain only the minimum amount of cleaning agents required by government standards, some companies say that isn’t enough. According to Shell, gasoline meeting only minimum requirements can leave harmful deposits on engine parts. Additionally, four leading automakers, BMW, General Motors, Honda and Toyota, are so concerned with declining gasoline quality, that they recently introduced a higher standard called ‘Top Tier Detergent Gasoline.” Shell announced today that its Regular, Plus and Shell V-PowerŪ premium-grade gasolines all meet the “Top Tier Detergent Gasoline” standard.
“We’ve felt for a long time that the minimum detergency level set by EPA was not adequate for many fuels on the market,” said Andrew Buczynsky, fuels engineer at General Motors.
Because gasoline can vary in quality from one brand to another, the four automakers created the “Top Tier Detergent Gasoline” standard to help keep vehicle engines cleaner and reduce deposit-related problems. The new standard surpasses the minimum requirements for gasoline detergent additives set by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA); and in order for a gasoline brand to promote “Top Tier” status, all gasolines sold must meet the “Top Tier” standard.
Shell agrees cleaning agents are important and the company’s research shows that fuels with more cleaning agents can remove deposits left behind by low detergency gasolines. And, according to the automakers that developed the “Top Tier” standard, clean engines help vehicles achieve optimal performance as well as reduced emissions.
Shell regular and Plus gasolines, which meet the “Top Tier” standard, also contain more than two times the amount of cleaning agents required by the EPA. Shell V-Power goes even further – it has more than five times the minimum amount of cleaning agents required by government standards and twice the cleaning agents required by the “Top Tier” standard. While the “Top Tier” standard is designed to protect engines from the future build-up of carbon deposits, Shell V-Power is specifically formulated to actively clean your engine as you drive giving it the ability to clean-up deposits that have already built up on intake valves and fuel injectors.
“Shell has a long history of offering consumers high-detergency gasolines and has invested years of research and development into creating high-quality fuels,” said Brooks Herring, brand and strategy manager for Shell Oil Products US. “Gasoline quality can vary from one brand to another and choosing the right gasoline for your car is very important. Shell has been delivering quality fuels to motorists for nearly 100 years and we hope the new ‘Top Tier’ standard will help consumers better understand the importance of buying high-quality fuels with additional cleaning power.” "
Here is a GM site on T0p Tier gasoline...
http://www.gm.com/automotive/fueleconomy/detergent.htm
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OBIO3
Dodge Dakota
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3/23/2006
21:27:26
| RE: best plugs for 5.2?
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ewraven .... Ty for the reply and corecting my bad wording. I was aware all gas has atleast the minumum govt required chemicals init and this is done at the refinery as I understand it. The extras that fix this low mix is added as the truck is being loaded to deliver to the stations and at this time is when the good companies add and pay for the extras. If the government required the amount that worked for all engines be installed at the refinery it would solve everything. Here SINCLARE adds no EXTRA ADDITIVES to make the gas good. Also our biggest service in the state owned by our second richest person does not add the extra needed > Guess what. This is town pump service stations and I never gave it a thought before but they all have an additional sign posted. EXXON .... Anyway. I just said itwrong but the botom line was still correct Just as your post states.
So many problems .... So little time
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