| From | Message |
Rob C
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/09/2005
14:52:51
|
 Subject: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey this is a long shot but, maybe one of you know. I've got power door lock problems, my PDL actuators started making noise and one of them isn't unlocking. I pulled the actuator out and found that Mopar used plastic helical gears on the motor that drive another helical gear on the actuator shaft that moves the lock lever. The cost of the actuator is $72 from the dealer. I can buy it but, it's going to fail again eventually.(what were they thinking?)
Does anyone know of a source for small aluminum helical gears that I can use to replace on the motor? I'd even go for plastic, it's got to be cheaper than paying $72 everytime a gear breaks. I didn't get the exact dimensions but, it's about 8mm in diameter with 10 teeth and left cut teeth.
|
N56629
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/10/2005
11:16:35
|  RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
The so-called "plastic" gears are not generic plastic at all but are a high-strength nylon or a patented name like Delrin. They are very common, very durable and superior to aluminum in every way. If a nylon gear fails, it is most likely caused by poor design or assembly, not the material itself.
An aluminum gear, even teflon coated, would wear very quickly without constant lubrication. Nylons are self-lubricating, impact resistant, light weight, quiet and non-corrosive.
|
Rob C
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/10/2005
14:28:41
|  RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks for the lesson. I knew they weren't just plastic but rather, nylon or teflon but, since 2 out of 5 actuators went bad with the same problem almost at the same time, I'm thinking that it's not the right material for the application.
In any case, that doesn't help me get any replacement gears for my actuators.
|
N56629
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/10/2005
16:03:16
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
This doesn't seem to be a cronic problem, at least a search doesn't show any. You may just be one of the lucky few to get part of a bad batch. If you have been buying them and they are failing, which may be what you were trying to say in your first post, there is likely some other problem.
I still say that there is nothing wrong with the type of gears they are using in this application. Aluminum gears would definately not be better and likely worse.
|
DUDE
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/11/2005
00:19:37
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Nylon = $ Aluminum = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Thats why they use nylon. When did you ever get the idea that a company would put a "better" product in over a "cheaper" product. Wake up to reality.
|
N56629
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/11/2005
07:00:26
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Aluminum gears would cost more money but they would also fail much sooner. You could put gold gears in for a lot more money too, but it doesn't mean that they would be better.
|
MauiRT
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/11/2005
09:28:11
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
N25569 makes the point crystal clear..maybe you all should do a search or two.....Delrin rules.......far superior to most metals reguardless of their costs...for a cheap replacment try a salvage yard...i have gotten many small dealer doesnt have parts there......
|
DUDE
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/11/2005
22:03:24
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Gold is softer than aluminum. If plastic (or nylon or delrin) is so much better, why do people change their timing gears from nylon to steel?
For a catalog that has these gears go to
http://www.sdp-si.com The place is Stock Drive Products ( division of Designatronics, Inc.
The plastic does not like the shock load that door locks put on them. As per life test lab at DamnearChrysler. Done....bye
|
Rob C
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/12/2005
00:02:23
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
I think one of the facts that you need to take into account is that the gears aren't constantly spinning, only when unlocking or locking the doors so, I don't know if the theory of the aluminum gears chewing themselves to pieces is accurate. Especially, since the gears aren't constantly turning, I would think that they could be lubricated with a good synthetic grease that would last for years. I wonder if any of these companies that manufacture these assemblies for the car companies ever did any research and testing of different materials for the gears or if they just automatically went for the nylon gears?
|
N56629
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/12/2005
07:01:28
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
"If plastic (or nylon or delrin) is so much better, why do people change their timing gears from nylon to steel?"
It's called using the correct material for the job. I wouldn't use Delrin gears in my transmission either. I thought such things were obvious. Guess not.
|
DUDE
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/12/2005
22:41:11
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Then it is obvious that the plastic (delrin) is not the correct material for door locks. Just cheaper.
|
N56629
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/13/2005
10:24:13
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Ok, DUDE, you win. They should have put in stainless gears and ran tiny little oil lines up to the engine to keep them well lubed. I'm sure the gears would last forever.
|
DUDE
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/14/2005
23:58:41
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Probably keep the doors from rusting out because they would put bad seals in it. LOL
|
Rob C
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/16/2005
13:28:55
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
I decided to just order the power door lock actuator assemblies online. I saved about $40 online but, with shipping and the fact that all the trim attachment hardware (which always breaks even if you have a trim tool) it still ended up costing about $155 for the 2 actuators plus the hardware. I couldn't wait any longer, it really sucks when you can open a door because the actuator isn't working.
|
John K
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/18/2005
12:20:40
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
'doesn't seem to be a chronic problem'
I've replaced the two front PDLs and now need a new one for rear door on my 2000 QC. This is post-warranty out-of-pocket poor-engineering type crap.
|
N56629
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/18/2005
12:30:40
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
So far it sounds like both vehicles are QC. Are they both 2000, Rob?
|
Rob C
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/19/2005
00:21:35
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Well, it's a 2000 but it's a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a bad rear door actuator and liftgate actuator. There's an emergency access panel to lock/unlock the liftgate but, when the liftgate actuator fails, it disables the glass release too. So, you can't open the glass and use the emergency lever. Probably caused by contacts not being made. Anyway, I access the cargo area a lot and when the liftgate doesn't open, I have to go in through the back door, fold the seat and unlock it. With the most convenient door not unlocking, I have to open the right front door, unlock the rear door then climb in. Who engineers these things? America is capable of producing the best products on the planet but somehow between the idea and the execution we frequently manage to shoot ourselves in the foot.
|
John K
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/19/2005
09:15:46
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
A solenoid type actuator would be a better design, and may be relatively easy to retrofit and bypass the stock actuator (remove one or both gears.) It would probably be easier and cheaper than finding the right size gears. If you really want new gears, there are plenty of specialty machine shops in North America who could cut you a set, in any material, for a price.
|
Rob C
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/20/2005
01:11:11
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
The problem with a solenoid is that it probably wouldn't be able to handle the task since they've designed the mechanism in such a way that it requires quite a bit of torque to actuate the locking mechanism so, they're using an actuator with a huge gear reduction.
|
John K
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/20/2005
09:40:43
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Can you lock and unlock the door with your finger? How many ounces of force is required to lift or depress the manual lock knob? You just need to rig actuator rod from solenoid to work in parallel with the lock knobs, at the same lever on the OE actuator. Or use a 'push-pull' type flexible throttle cable.
I remember the PDL solenoids from older cars were huge, and packed quite a kick -compared to the nonsense behind my door panel today.
I've considered going this route myself, rather than pay CDN$100 per door every time it wears out. I saw a solenoid type aftermarket PDL kit on an automotive website, that's where I got this idea.
Good luck ;^)
|
Rob C
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
4/21/2005
01:48:56
| RE: Aluminum helical gears needed
IP: Logged
Message:
Yeah, you're probably right, a decent sized solenoid should be able to do the job.
|
| | P 1 |
|
Post a reply to this message:
Username Registration: Optional
All visitors are allowed to post messages
|
