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Bullock
Dodge Dakota
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3/12/2005
13:40:47
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 Subject: adjust tps to .76v?
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What does this mean? What does it do? How do I do it? Just curious......thanks
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Kowalski
GenIII
3/12/2005
15:10:46
|  RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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It hastens throttle response for those who have a lag. Do you have that problem ? Mine was fine stock.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Bullock
Dodge Dakota
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3/12/2005
23:24:57
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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no, no problem, I just see everybody listing it as a mod. Just wondering if there was any gain to doing it.
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T-racy
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2005
12:33:08
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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I did this mod on my 02 4.7. It ran fine just wanted to improve performance. Before I did it the throttle response was a little lazy but it idled absolutely perfect. Now after the mod the throttle response is much better but it takes spells where the idle drops down very low at stop signs and it almost dies then revs high and smooths out. Kinda annoying. I have double checked with 2 different meters to make sure the first meter was reading right and they both show within .01 volt. I tried splitting the difference with mine. The originally reading was .60 volts. Tried everything in between and it still takes spells wanting to die. If your truck idles good and has decent response I'd say leave it alone.
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last_username
Dodge Dakota
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3/14/2005
09:07:12
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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when you reset your computer the PCM will re-read the min and max voltages, thereby cancelling any timing advance benefits you had before!!!
Mod is not worth the effort.
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Figols
Dodge Dakota
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3/14/2005
09:37:52
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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Not true "last_username". What you're doing with the TPS mod is to bring the TPS base voltage to where it should be according to factory spec. My original factory base voltage was .4 and .52 with the New OEM replacement TPS. I adjusted it to .7 and my '00 4.7 ran much smoother, down shifted quicker and idled much smoother. It's a mod that's been around for many years for all cars with a tps. In fact many GM's have an adjustable TPS and I suspect other manufacturers do also. Ofcourse as long as it's been around there has been people saying that it doesn't work. It's a common misconception that the PCM controls as much as it does. All it does is take information from the various sensors and uses that info to make the vehicle run properly(for emission purposes!). If one sensor is out of wack, but not enough to trip a code, the PCM takes the sensors "word" on the bad info it is receiving and uses it in it's calculations. It doesn't know that the info is wrong unless it is totally out of range.
In anycase, any time you change a sensor or modify anything in the engine compartment you need to disconnect the battery for a few minutes to reset the PCM so that it will "relearn" the new information. If you don't the PCM will try to run the engine based on the previous premod info. Maybe that's where people are getting the impression that the PCM overrides all?.
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N56629
Dodge Dakota
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3/14/2005
13:35:11
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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"If you don't the PCM will try to run the engine based on the previous premod info. Maybe that's where people are getting the impression that the PCM overrides all?."
I don't think there is a misconception. When the computer relearns the change you made, it sets the new voltage as the baseline for a closed throttle. If you change the voltage from .5 to .7, it then accepts .7V as being closed throttle and timing advance will be the same as it was at .5V. The TPS then measure the "change" in voltage as a percentage of open throttle. If it relied on actual voltage rather than change in voltage, it would have the slightest idea of what position it is in. I guess that's why they call it a throttle "position" sensor.
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last_username
Dodge Dakota
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3/14/2005
15:05:04
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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I agree..... ^
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Bullock
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2005
23:09:31
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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Fair enough, i guess i'll just leave it alone. thanks
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matt
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2005
18:33:32
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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I dunno about the cpu learning the new curve, but with the obd system it seems logical, and makes definite sense. I've done this mod, and it worked initially, but then again, how would I know if it had relearned it progressively that it hasn't developed into somehting that doesn;t make any dofference now...
MY problem with this mod is that after doing the mod, my TPS is now cracking apart, after driving 50K miles with it modded... about to get a new one, and NOT doing the mod this time. it'd be easier to just get a superchips programmer and do all your tuning that way, even though its much more expensive... if you're looking for cheap HP, go with the 180 thermostat and a IAT relocation.
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2005
18:26:02
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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Matt,
I don't disagree with what you say. But I have a problem with your last statement.
The 180 t-stat, doesn't add any HP. Show me an objectively done dyno, on the same engine, with the same ambient conditions.
The IAT adjuster. I have one on my 4.7, wanna buy it? 20$shipped. When I dynoed my ride, I compared the Superchips 87 octane setting, and then added the IAT adjuster. Identical graphs.
Probably b/c with my set up, and the SC's 87 octane rating, it could do no more. I do think they may add a few ponies, in the right conditions, especially with a mostly stock engine.
$20 shipped
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mattt
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2005
21:14:20
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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180 thermo does a MINIMAL amount of help to HP, nothing noticable by itself, but what you need to remember is its not the only thing in the system. I dropped to the 180 thermo, added a auxilliary tranny cooler, and because of that I was able to remove the clutch fan from my R/T. a cooler engine lasts longer, uses oil more effectively, ( i.e. not crusting in to the insides of your engine), and does create a lower underhood temp. NOW you're saying, so what, its only 15 degrees below stock temp. thermo.. well, I don't want this to get into a chemistry lesson, but "Charles Law" ( look it up if you don't believe me, but as background, I am a physics student, working towards a mechanical engineering degree, I'm currently a Junior in college) dictates that temperature affects volume of any gaseous substance... this breaks down to the fact that the hotter it is, the higher the volume needs to be for the same given amount of a gas (in this case the primary gas, Oxygen) now seeing that the volume ofthe underhood area is finite, you have less Oxygen for the area at a higher temp, which both reduces the amount the engine can consume, and limits the amount that can carry away heat. If I'm wrong, then tell me why cold air induction is so popular?
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Kowalski
GenIII
3/22/2005
12:52:12
|  RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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Matt - telling you why cold air induction is so popular will not point out the error in your thinking. We must look at more laws of physics to see the error, You must consider more than just Charles' law here, also consider the laws of conservation of energy. I'm sure you know an internal combustion engine is going to have a certain amount of heat loss in addition to the power it is putting out. Changing the thermostat will not change that - if there is less heat in the block, its because that extra heat is still being dumped under the hood by the radiator; so your cooler running motor is not making more power just by ingesting cooler air (there are other reasons it may make more power running cooler but the one you give is not it). Its been almost 30 years since I took college chemistry and physics; one of the most important things I got out of college was learning to try to look at the big picture - there are more important principles at work here. Good try, but you're too limited in your thinking. You are right that the 180 degree thermostat will make a slight bit of more power; but for the wrong reason.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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3/22/2005
15:57:51
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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Both my 00 CC and 03 QC with 4.7's stumbled on fast acceleration from a dead stop with the TPS at .52V and .57V. With the TPS set to around .72V the throttle response is snappy. Other than correcting the stumble I didn't notice anything.
Like Kowalski said, if you don't have off idle hesitation, don't worry about the mod.
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Figols
Dodge Dakota
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3/22/2005
16:28:04
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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Remember, the 195 thermostat was initially an emissions thing. Before that 180 was a hot thermostat. Back then some cars had a coolant line going through the throttlebody and/or intake manifold to heat up intake air (for emissions purposes). In those situations a cooler thermostat made a much more noticable difference for obvious reasons.
Todays engines don't quite benefit the same way. Emissions are more effectivly controlled than they were in the 70's, 80's & early 90's. I think a 180 thermostat today will lower the engine temperature(which is good for a number of reasons), but will not give the HP increase that some may think. You may get a little boost since the coolant sensor will read cooler and enrichen the fuel mixture, but I doubt it will be noticable(I still have the 190 in mine so I can't say for sure personally). I've noticed with the Dakota a cooler thermostat is used mainly to eliminate the clutch fan. Even the add on chips don't require a cooler stat like they did in the past. You also don't want your engine to run too cool because for one, if too cool you will be running too rich(counter productive) and two, you need an engine to get warm enough to burn off carbon in the combustion chamber and to evaporate moisture from the crankcase. I think a 180 is safe, but anything lower may be questionable.
Also, keep in mind(and I KNOW some firmly disagree with this), the PCM & OBD-II is not all that complicated or ALL controlling. You can fool it with simple old time mods. It relys on the sensors for it's calculations. Those sensors can be manipulated. The key is to manipulate all the sensors invloved in the specific calculation and not just one(in most cases). This is probably why the IAT adjuster doesn't seem to work(from what I've read). Just my years of experiance. I'm sure the usual ones will disagree.
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01Motorsport
Dodge Dakota
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4/20/2007
23:36:28
| RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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IntenseDak39 used to have a "how-to" TPS mod on his website, but I can't locate it anymore. Basically, the mod was drilling one of the mounting holes of the TPS larger so that it could be rotated to obtain a different-than-fixed reading, i.e. .76v. Are there some other descriptions of the mod out there?
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01Motorsport
Dodge Dakota
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4/21/2007
00:12:33
|  RE: adjust tps to .76v?
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I tracked the site down: www.intense-dakota.com However, it is "under construction" at the moment. www.dakotausa has some info under search: TPS mod.
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