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sicminds
GenIII
1/13/2005
19:28:30
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 Subject: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Been running autolite 3923's, any other recomendation?
There was a serous ping, took out #7 plug and it the top was pretty much non existant. I just put these plugs in about a week ago.
What/How could that happen? Too hot? I believe that, that #7 had oil on it on the previous one, but no oil this time.
I have been running the .45 gap, should i go lower? I was running a .55 with the s/c with min ping. What do you think?
Mods:
Powerdyne SC #9
MSD blaster ss,6a,8.5mm,timing advance/retard
single in dual out flowmaster 40, no cat
Re-inforced b-pan
thanks for the input
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
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1/13/2005
20:22:06
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Detonation. Most likely your motor is detonating and thats what caused the plug to break so quikly. Sounds like some serious detonation, i'd get that thing tuned if I were you.
Don't drive it till you get that taken care of.
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Dakota52318
Dodge Dakota
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1/13/2005
21:20:09
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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You keep going at that rate and you are going to lose a head gasket, if your lucky. I lost a rod bearing with no detonation at all, plugs were always dark brown, and I always kept a good amount of timing out of it, running 10 psi. The rod bearing only went because of the 128,000 miles on the motor, and the fact that I was making about 400+ at the crank after the M1 and 53MM TB. Everytime it pings/det you are beating the ever loving piss out of everything in the motor. Drop back down to 6psi, get it tuned, lower the Tstat to 180 OR SOMETHING or you WILL destroy that motor.
TJ
http://forums.atvconnection.com/Photos.cfm?ID=2972
dakota52318@toad.net
1992 Dakota
M1 Intake, 53MM Fastman TB
318, 4X4, Long Bed
46RH, MP Comp
Vortech SCer at 9#
Crane Ignition,Viper Fan
DT Headers, 4350 lbs.
13.85@99.1 Best to Date. (B4 M1/53MM)
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Dakota52318
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/13/2005
21:22:47
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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If thats your truck in the pic, the extra load of those tire are certainly not helping any if you did not change the gearing when you put them on.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
1/14/2005
00:18:25
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Melting a piston would not be too pretty either. Must need more fuel or less timing.
It still must be cool to have boost though.
Those are some meats on that truck too. nice to see some tough 4X4's out there.
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sicminds
GenIII
1/14/2005
09:25:52
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Well i forgot to mention i have the 180 t-stat,transgo and 3.92 gears.
how could i get more fuel to it? aux fuel pump, bigger injectors??? What injector should i go with? FSM #24?
Also, did some reading on the autolite 3922's and think i might give those a shot. I usually gap at .45, should i lower it to say .40?
But it is all worth the look on peoples faces when they see a meaty truck burnin there lil "fast" cars.
thanks again for your input
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2005
10:17:52
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Doesn't the kit run 6psi normally?
Did you install a smaller pulley to up the boost?
Did you make any changes fuel and ignition wise when you made the boost level changes?
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rtspeeddemon
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2005
13:13:01
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Please tell me it has been dynoed tuned?
If not you shouldn't even be driving it unless you want it to go boom!
I run autolight 3923's gapped at .035 the narrower gap prevents the flame from being blown out with the higher cylinder presures.
As for your issue... it is detonation for sure and you may have already taken out a piston. You are running way to lean.
Where are you located? If you are running in colder weather now a reminder that your engine will now be running leaner due to the colder temps.
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RaZoR1
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2005
17:52:22
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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I can't find anybody that can tune my 4.7. I have the kenne bell and every shop i've tried don't have the software for the 4.7 yet. I'm running 6lbs put would like to get the water/alc injection and move up to 8. Will the computer compensate for the 8psi or do i need to up the injectors or get a tune?? Sciminds: My kit came with iridium plugs and i would suggest them to you. They're pretty pricey but i've been told they are the best for forced induction motors.
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2005
20:49:44
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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RaZoR1,
No the factory ecu will not compensate for the extra boost pressure. Add more air you NEED to add more fuel plain and simple there is no way around it.
What kind of fuel management comes with that kit? A fmu?
On a side note I was just searching through their site. I was surprised to find mis-information and biased answers (faq section regarding intercoolers). Their response was only half correct, misleading and biased towards their product.Kind of surprised me that they would lead one to believe that an intercooler won't help hp.
One one page they say that every 10 degree increase in intake temp is equal to -1% in power. Or every 10 degree's that you lower the intake temp it equal to adding +1% more hp.
Then they say that lowering the intake temp by using an intercooler won't increase power. But the intercooler is mearly there to prevent detonation. That can be very misleading for someone new to forced induction and easily infuenced by what they read or hear.
anyways...
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/15/2005
00:42:11
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Disregard the last part of my last post.
Although it's still misleading and not written very well.
I figured out what they were saying, in a round about way.
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sicminds
GenIII
1/15/2005
12:32:02
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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not dyno tuned yet, running with only stock fuel system, i am guessing i need to do something about that. Kinda on a tight budget tho.
It seems to run fine driving normal, but when in 3rd in WOT thats when the problems start, i am guessing that is when i am seeing the higher boost pressures.
What should i go with? I know powerdyne kits come with a aux fuel pump, should i get one? Also should i go with bigger injectors as well? I was told that my PCM would compensate for more fuel, i am guessing that that person was wrong.
I was also wondering if i should do the map sensor mod, what are you thoughts?
Kinda a newbie at this supercharged thing, thanks for your input. I purchased the blower alone, and it came with the 9# pulley on it and mounting brackets, thats it.
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RaZoR1
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2005
13:11:51
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Hybrid: I had to send my computer to them to be flashed and they also sent a "piggy back" computer, that looks a lot like the msd, to control the boost and timing retard. I have asked kenne bell about adding the new pulley and they said it would be no problem but is not recommended because "the dodges are known for blowing head gaskets". I'm wondering if their setup will add the extra fuel. I thought maybe by adding the water/alcohol injection i could get away with it. But i have no way to run it on a dyno with an air/fuel reading for me to know what's going on in there. Maybe I'll look at some headers this spring. I'm sure it's only a matter of time before someone gets the software for the 4.7's.
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RaZoR1
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2005
13:46:54
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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One other thing i found weird. The 4.7 work of a MAP sensor. The kenne bell came with a whole bypass system for the MAP but they also added a MAF sensor to the truck. They both do essentially the same thing, don't they?? The kit also added two Auxillary injectors to the back of the intake. I wonder if bumping those two injectors up would give me the fuel i need.
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2005
20:30:17
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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sicminds,
Oh my, I would seriously remove the supercharger tonight. So if what I read was correct (Let me quote it so i don't get it wrong)...."I purchased the blower alone, and it came with the 9# pulley on it and mounting brackets, thats it. That is your problem....geeze, not to be a dick but what the hell are you doing modifying your truck?
You have a lot to learn and hopefully if your lucky you havent learned the hard way yet. Keep driving your truck the way it is and your going to be rebuilding your motor real soon (if your lucky)maybe even a new motor if you damage it bad enough.Check out this web site for your sake..www.howstuffworks.com and type in supercharger, air/fuel ratio,typical automotive stuff. Maybe even check out kenne bells web site and look at the FAQ section he answers some basic questions there.Read up unless you have lots of cash to burn because this may turn out to be a VERY expensive lesson for you to lean. 9 pounds on the stock fuel system...wow. And I thought 9psi using a fmu was bad.
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/15/2005
20:36:13
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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RaZoR1,
Yeah I found on their site about the ecu flashing. I thought you were refering to a stock non-modifyed ecu.
Since it has been chipped/flashed you should be fine like they said...
I've never researched supercharger kits for these trucks so I'm still learing whats available for them. I've been a boost junkie for a bout 5 years, but my drug of choice has always been a turbo.Although the principal is the relativly the same I just never looked in perticular applications. Learn something new everyday.
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Dakota52318
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/16/2005
00:42:59
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Im doing about 400+ HP with the FMU, works just fine with 10 PSI.
TJ
http://forums.atvconnection.com/Photos.cfm?ID=2972
dakota52318@toad.net
1992 Dakota
M1 Intake, 53MM Fastman TB
318, 4X4, Long Bed
46RH, MP Comp
Vortech SCer at 10#
Crane Ignition,Viper Fan
DT Headers, 4350 lbs.
13.85@99.1 Best to Date. (B4 M1/53MM)
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/16/2005
01:26:43
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Each situation is different I guess I should have been more specific.
10psi + stock injectors = bad form or fuel control.
I too have run 10psi using a fmu, But at the time I also had larger injectors, a high pressure/flow fuel pump, a piggyback fuel computer (to fine tune the air/fuel ratio) and my fmu was a 4:1 ratio.
Now a 12:1 fmu + 10psi isn't so good if you care about long term reliability.
I've since moved up from that form of fuel delivery, and have never looked back. Ditching the fmu in favor of more precise tuning and better engine management Shaved over .5 off my quarter mile time running less boost. (9psi vs 10psi w/fmu)
To each is to own, what works for one doesn't always work for another. Thats not to say that either one is wrong. If it works and makes you happy, then more power to you.
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RaZoR1
Dodge Dakota
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1/16/2005
12:26:04
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Hybrid: thanks for the input. I'm thinking I'll get a good air/fuel meter just in case to keep an eye on it. I use my truck as a daily driver so i don't think I'll run more than 8psi but i said i wouldn't ever want or need to run more than 6 when i got it originally installed. It's wierd how you get use to something but it's always fun to take someone for a ride, that hasn't been, and see how they react. To me it's just "normal". Thanks again,
Sicminds: Sounds like you should do something very quickly. Good luck with it and keep us posted.
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hybrid
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
1/16/2005
20:30:55
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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RaZoR1,
make sure you get a wide band o2 sensor and meter. The air/fuel ratio gauges that hook to your stock o2 sensor are worthless for boosted applications. They are fairly accurate on naturaly asperated motors but not accurate enough to tune from IMO.
They are most accurate with a stoich air/fuel ratio (14.7:1) they get less accurate the further you get from stoich (rich or lean) Being that most boosted motors run closer to a 12.0:1 air/fuel ratio in boost they are not very accurate. I have one in my car (bought it before wide band kits were affordable) my car has been tuned to about 11.8-11.9:1 air/fuel ratio in boost. My air/fuel gauge reads lean most the time.????
Anyways, I know exactly what yout mean about getting used to the power. I started with 5-6psi and I'm now up to 13-14psi. even there I car still feels slow to me....It runs good times but I'm still not content. Boost is like crack, once you try it you get addicted.
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dude
Dodge Dakota
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1/17/2005
11:28:50
| RE: Supercharged Spark Plug? Very Odd
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Try Autolite 3922. Gap at .35.
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