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Big Ed
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2005
10:14:31
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 Subject: RE: milky oil foam
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rp, the water that was prevelent in your sample is the condensation that forms IN THE TUBE, not your oil pan ect. Its the area where the cold air hits the filler tube causing this condensation. I really don't believe you have a bad head gasket or any other area where the coolant will leak into your engine oil. In my 49 years on earth, I've found that common sense far outways college training, read all the postings, they pretty much tell the story.
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no
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2005
10:15:01
|  RE: milky oil foam
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it`s water + oil = emulsion.
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rpwilliams
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2005
15:13:14
| RE: milky oil foam
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-Jeremiah
There are four things sample showed as needing attention:
1.H2O
2.Unaacceptable Nitration levels(which can be from fuel in the oil)
3.16ppm of aluminum(excessive wear)
4.47ppm of sodium(road salt and/or coolant additive)
-Chill
Yes, I am very anal. I take good care of my investments so they last me as long as possible. Yes, I will clean out the foam as often as possible. The point is, I shouldn't have to do so.
-Big Ed
If the condensation is only in the fill tube, then why did my oil sample (taken from oil in the pan) show water contamination? I know it is not coolant. Using my worthless college education I instructed the dealership to test the coolant for "combustion biproduct" contaminates. They found the coolant to be fine. I guess I must have commen sense and a college degree. How rare.
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Big Ed
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2005
17:10:29
| RE: milky oil foam
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You said in your original post that you had the oil in the fill tube analyzed not the oil in the pan. Thats what you said!!! Yes rare indeed to have common sense and a degree. As a 31 year HVAC Mech I've seen all kinds.
You either have a bad 4.7 or you've run the piss out of it.
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2005
20:34:07
| RE: milky oil foam
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Message:
rp thanks for your reply. I`d like to see you post the complete oil analysis results here;
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=3
The oil gurus would have a field day with it. Plus you might get some insight on whats ailing your motor. Good luck.
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chill
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2005
21:21:12
| RE: milky oil foam
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The sky is falling, the sky is falling
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Pudding
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2005
23:38:53
| RE: milky oil foam
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Don't eat the yellow engine pudding.
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rpwilliams
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
09:27:38
| RE: milky oil foam
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Message:
-Jeremiah
I tried scanning the document but my scanner wouldn't accept it for some reason. I'm going to keep analyzing the oil over the next couple thousand miles(which should take about a month). I'll check out that site ASAP. Thanks for the ref.
-Big Ed
Please read the post again. Common sense might also tell you that there is no oil in the fill tube, just foam. Oil in the fill tube would mean I have WAY TOO MUCH oil in the engine. Running the piss out of it wouldn't be taking care it as I have been told I do so "analy". I take samples using a vaccum pump & hose inserted down the dipstick tube.
-Chill
Where a helmet.
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Big Ed
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
09:33:42
| RE: milky oil foam
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Message:
You Chill. This hole thread is about the condensation buildup in the fill tube. NOT your oil problem. My oil is fine, 35k on the 00 dak 4.7 and 8.5k on my 02 sport 4.7 just the condesation problem. No matter, I love my dak.
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rpwilliams
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
09:44:56
| RE: milky oil foam
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Message:
The last post wasn't telling you to "chill". I was replying to Chill's message. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Don't get me wrong, I love my Dakota as well. I am a HUGE Mopar freak. The power and smoothness of the 4.7 far dominates that of the 318 dinosaur, not to mention most of the competitor's comparable engines. I'm just a little disappointed in how DC is handling this problem. First they try to hide it with the goofy baffle and flat bottom cap, then they tell us it's normal. If it's so normal whay haven't all of the other vehicles I've ever owned done it?
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JD
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
09:46:22
| RE: milky oil foam
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Then shut up, Big Ed, and let the rest of us worry about it.
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rpwilliams
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
09:59:07
| RE: milky oil foam
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Easy killer. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. These forums are here to gain the insight of others.
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Big Ed
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
12:14:52
|  RE: milky oil foam
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Sorry rp, my blow.
JD, go away.
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JD
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
13:34:36
| RE: milky oil foam
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Sorry. Lost focus.
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JasonB
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
13:45:54
| RE: milky oil foam
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Message:
NO: 09-01-00 Rev A
SUBJECT: Foamy Oil Emulsion Accumulation Inside The 4.7L Engine Oil Fill Housing
DATE: Sept. 11, 2000
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 09-01-00, DATED FEB. 18, 2000, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. THIS IS A COMPLETE REVISION AND NO ASTERISKS HAVE BEEN USED TO HIGHLIGHT REVISIONS.
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves the installation of a baffle and a revised oil fill housing cap.
NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A 4.7L ENGINE.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
A customer may complain of an oil emulsion accumulation inside the engine oil fill housing. The oil emulsion will normally be foamy and be gray or light brown in color.
The emulsion accumulation will often occur on cooler engine surfaces, like the inside of the oil fill housing. Modern engine oils are designed to address the oil emulsion phenomenon. Oil emulsion accumulation is normal and will not damage the engine
A new baffle and a revised oil fill housing cap have been released. The baffle and oil cap will help to reduce the amount of oil emulsion accumulation within the oil fill housing.
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rpwilliams
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
14:04:56
| RE: milky oil foam
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Message:
We all have the TSB. The 2004 units already come with those installed. They're trying to hide the problem. Not solve it. DC says that it is normal because they have established that the extra wear will not affect the engine until later in it's life. After the warranties run out, perhaps? The modern engine oils do address this problem, but not to the extent that the 4.7's are emmitting. Due to the design of the engine, more than normal amounts of condensation are accumulating.
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JasonB
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
14:57:14
| RE: milky oil foam
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The emulsion in question is limited to the filler neck area only simply because of the temperature difference. Any attempt to prove otherwise is a waste of time. There is no "extra wear" created by the source or the result of accumulation of emulsion in the oil filler neck. The installation of a baffle and a revised oil fill housing cap is serving only to put lipstick on an ugly spot, it is not intended to correct any mechanical failure condition. Foamy oil emulsion in the filler neck is not indicative of any mechanical failure. If you drain a foamy emulsion from your engine during a routine oil change, THAT could indicate a failure but in no way is it related to the normal condition described by the bulletin.
A few dealerships learned this the hard way. Many found themselves tearing down engines looking for a problem that does not exist and, hence, wasting the time of customers who asked about the build up.
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rpwilliams
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
15:25:56
| RE: milky oil foam
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Message:
Please read all previous postings. Maybe it's just my engine. But, I have found water in my engine oil via oil analysis. The emulsion building in the filler neck is from condensation, yes. When condensation builds it drips down into the oil pan. There it mixes with engine oil and creates the emulsion. Due to the 4.7's charactaristics the emulsion is not getting boiled off as it does in most other engines. The foam/emulsion, being lighter than the oil itself, collects in the fill tube. The dealerships would not find any problems right now when the emulsion is first noticed by us. But, over time, the emulsion will decrease the engine's life. How much? I'm not sure, but it will. I plan on analyzing my engine for a while. If I find that there is excessive wear or signs of possible premature failure, anywhere, DC will be contacted again.
Remember before, maybe its just my engine, but the only problem that has been recorded by myself and my dealer is the emulsion.
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JasonB
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
15:51:01
| RE: milky oil foam
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Message:
I am not claiming to know the specifics of your vehicle, only of the normal condition described by the bulletin. I did read your posts and understand quite well the concept of condensation in all crankcases.
My only point is that if your engine fails, it will not be because of the condition described by the bulletin or any similar tendancy. The fact the DC has spent money to improve the condition is purely a "customer satisfaction" repair, not the repair of a failure (or even a potential failure).
On a side note, I have my fingers crossed dude. I hope your future oil samples do not indicate expensive repairs. Good luck.
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rpwilliams
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2005
16:04:17
| RE: milky oil foam
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Message:
Thanks for your support. But, if no other possible causes arise all I need is PROBABLE CAUSE, and as Big Ed might say "common sense" will tell you ENGINES + FOAMY OIL = PROBLEM.
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