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nhsd
Dodge Dakota
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11/30/2004
15:24:41
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 Subject: Another towing question
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OK, I bought a boat. It is a 19 ft cuddy cabin. I estimate that the boat and trailer weigh somewhere between 2,500 and 3,000 lbs. I have a 2000 Quadcab 4x4 with a 4.7 engine, auto transmission and (I believe) 3.92 gears. It does NOT have a factory tow package or tranny cooler. Anyway, when towing the boat the truck seemed to me to be a lot less powerful than I expected. It was able to accelerate (such as getting up to spped to merge onto Interstate), but it seemed to be an effort. How easy should it be to tow this much weight? If it should be pretty easy, what might I look at that could be holding my truck back? As an indication that it isn't a lot heavier than I am estimating, the truck had no issues when stopping with the trailer which doesn't have operable trailer brakes. I suppose I might just have unreasonable expectations as the heaviest thing I have ever towed with any truck is 2 jetskis on a double trailer weighing in at around 1800 lbs. Ay thoughts? Oh, one last thing. The boat trailer is somewhat tongue heavy (probably around 250 lbs). I assume that this would affect the ride, but not such things as acceleration or power.
Thanks
Dave Hall
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/30/2004
17:11:58
| RE: Another towing question
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I think you're guessing wrong about your gears and the weight of your boat. 3.55 gears are far more common, so if you don't know what you have, its more likely you don't have 3.92. I have a 19' Four Winns cuddy cabin with a v6, and I'd guess the weight more like 4000. A dangerous weight to tow without trailer brakes, you should look into repairing them. Trailers should be tongue heavy for proper handling, otherwise the "tail tends to wag the dog" - rather unnerving if youv'e ever had this experience. Enjoy your boat, but please haul it safely.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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nhsd
Dodge Dakota
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11/30/2004
22:31:11
| RE: Another towing question
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OK, you made me go look. You're right on the gears. It is a 3.55 with a 9.25 LD rear axle. I am in the process of repairing the trailer brakes. They are surge brakes that the previous owner had not maintained. The brake fluid had dried out. I pumped the better part of a quart of brake fluid through the lines before they cleared out. I'll be bleeding the lines and adjusting the brakes before towing again in the spring. As to weight, I am using a couple data points. First NADA shows the boat as 1,750 lbs. I assume that this is dry weight and without the motor or outdrive. It has a little 3.0 Litre 4 banger Mercruiser Alpha 1. Second, the trailer was matched to the boat by the dealer and is a single axle with a max 3,500 lb rating. It could be closer to that limit though. Thanks for the reply.
Dave Hall
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jasonsdakota
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2004
01:05:02
| RE: Another towing question
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na na, i can tow better than you can. with the weight of a quad cab 4x4, there is less room for towing than the lighter trucks, plus the 3.55 gears doesn't make for the greatest tow machine. however, you can't get better advice than on this board. (i know, i watch 4 boards and if i have time for just 1, it's dodgedakotas.com) are you trying to mod this thing for towing, or just wondering how hard it should be. if modding, go for ho cams, 4.10 gears, will make a world of difference, and the new superchips has a towing mode that advances timing for more power. but for the real question you asked, yes it should be more difficult for you as you have a couple things going against you. at least you have the v8! na na i have ho cams and 3.92 and ext cab.
ok that was immature, some more advice anyone?
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2004
03:39:11
| RE: Another towing question
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Yup, you need some weight on the tongue. When I bought my 16 1/2' glass boat the previous owner slid the bow mount back on the trailer a couple of inches, causing no tongue weight. It was a wild ride on corners with the trailer whipping back and forth. I adjusted the tongue weight to 200# and the problem is gone.
The 4.7 does a great job of towing my loaded 3000# boat and trailer. I have towed this boat with other trucks, V8 S-10, V10 Ford, V8 Suburban, for the size of the 4.7 it does a great job. Try turning the tranny OD off when towing, this helps with power, keeps the tranny in gear longer and keeps the tranny from constantly shifting. You might also look at adding a tranny cooler, I installed one and flushed the tranny with Amsoil ATF when I bought the truck as I knew I as going to be towing.
Off subject, but check the bilge pump in your boat. We got cought in 30-40 MPH winds, 4-6' white caps last Saturday and the engine stalled out. The bilge was 6" deep with water because the bilge pump stopped working, an hour later the bilge pumps discharge hose clogged with debris again filling the bilge and killing the engine. After last weekend's experience I am adding a second bilge pump.
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Kowalski
GenIII
12/01/2004
07:11:06
| RE: Another towing question
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Message:
Dave - Sounds like you're a bit lighter with the 4, and Four Winns builds a fairly substantial boat. Glad to hear you're working on the brakes. One final word of caution - after you've pulled your boat up the ramp and the brakes are wet, they won't work as well as dry; and my experience with surge brakes is that they don't work as well as electric brakes on other trailers, especially on a long downhill grade. Have fun with your new toy !
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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RadioMan
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2004
11:20:35
|  RE: Another towing question
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Don't even try to use overdrive either while
towing all that weight.
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Kowalski
GenIII
12/01/2004
11:54:42
| RE: Another towing question
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Pulling my camper, I tow more than that weight with the overdrive on with no problems. It only goes into OD in low load situations (like downhill runs). Many of us here tow with OD on with the 45RFE behind the 4.7
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Wal
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2004
13:32:20
| RE: Another towing question
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I tow my Dad's boat twice a year. It's a 21' Striper cuddy with an 8.5' beam and a ton of freeboard. With the tandem axle galvanized trailer, the boat/motor/trailer checks in around 5800-6000lbs. The Dak is a stable platform to tow it with, but I notice how crappy the torque converter is for towing; too much stall. When you go to take off on a grade from a stop, you get a lot of revs before you start to move. Conversely, my old Ranger v6 would begin moving much sooner, as well as my Dad's Explorer v8.
What's the deal with having such a high stall converter in the Dak? Are they trying for speed, or to cover their asses with trans warranties by burning up a TC first?
My Dak is a 99 with the 318 and 4speed auto.
Wal
P.S. I always pull her straight up the ramp in 4low so the gearing helps the truck barely have to work to climb up the ramp :-)
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nhsd
Dodge Dakota
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12/01/2004
16:49:31
| RE: Another towing question
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I did have the OD turned off while towing. I assume that is a big contributor to the 11.5 MPG highway that I got while towing at 60 MPH on Interstate. That is down from about 18 MPG normally when not towing. I checked out a couple sites and it seems that the recommended tongue weight for a boat is between 5% and 8% of total trailer/boat weight. At my estimate of 250 lbs tongue weight and 3,000lbs total, my tongue weight is a little high but in the ballpark. I will be weighing it and adjusting to the 5%-8% range this spring. Thanks for all the comments folks.
Dave Hall
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tc
Dodge Dakota
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12/02/2004
15:15:51
| RE: Another towing question
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Your boat may be a little heavier than you realize. Regardless, you have done the right thing by fixing the surge brakes. Definitely install a trans cooler. Change your trans fluid once a year. consider installing synthetic fluid. I would not bother changing the rear end gears. It would help your acceleration, but once you are up to speed it would do little. as far as OD on or off - it depends on the terrain - and how much shifting is going on. I dont know that I would mess with the toungue weight. If its too light, the trailer can get unstable. I have towed for over 20 years (mostly with Chrysler products) and have never had a trans problem.
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tractorfix
Dodge Dakota
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12/05/2004
22:25:23
| RE: Another towing question
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Wal, thanks for the headsup on the TC. I haven't tried to tow my float with my 4.7 yet, but when I do, I will pay more attention to the stall speed. This can generate a LOT of heat in a towing trans.
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