Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? - Dodge Dakota Forum

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JerryM Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/17/2004 12:12:48	Subject: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: Hey, I am sure this has been talked about on several occassions. I have a 2000 4.7 liter V8 with 42000 miles, and have been using Castrol Syntech blend (semi) since 12K. Does anyone have experience with synthetic oils? I am thinking of going to full synthetic oil and changing the fluid any filter every 5000 miles. I have heard in some cases when going to full synthetic oil, leaks develop. Any thoughts/experiences? Thanks!!!!!!!
furball69 Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/18/2004 03:01:57	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: It depends on the engine. If the engine has leaks - meaning seals, bearings, rings etc, with regular old dino oil, then it will probably leak a lot more with synthetic because it is so slippery. It would be a waste of money using full synthetic oil on a tired motor with 250,000 miles for two reasons, 1, it's old and should be either retired or rebuilt and 2, it probably uses at least a little oil and will probably use a lot more synthetic. Since your engine doesn't have that many miles and you are curious, the best thing to do is use the full synthetic for a couple of oil changes and see for yourself if it is using oil, or more so than before, if it doesn't then continue as if normal.
askhere Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/18/2004 17:58:25	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php
DSW Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/19/2004 01:40:06	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: I bought my 2000 4.7 with 60K and it used a little oil, swapped to Mobil 1 and the oil consumption stopped?!? Guess there was a stuck oil ring causing the oil consumption. Since then I have changed the oil every 6K with Mobil 1 and have not experienced leaking or oil consumption. I don't think you will suffer any ill effects switching to a full synthetic. BTW, Castrol Syntec (the stuff that says full synthetic on the bottle) is not "synthetic", they changed the formulation to hydrocracked dino several years back and I stopped using it because of this. Try Mobil 1, Amsoil, Redline, Royal Purple synthetic oils. I use Mobil one since it's readily available and a relatively inexpensive full synthetic, all though I am considering changing to Amsiol for the engine since it's working realy well in the tranny.
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/20/2004 06:53:38	Amsoil Full Synthetic Oil vs. Non-Synthetic IP: Logged Message: Synthetic Lubricants are fuel efficient, extended life lubricants manufactured and formulated from select basestocks and special purpose additives. In contrast to petroleum oils which are pumped from the earth and refined, synthetics are custom-designed in the laboratory. The properties of mineral oils (dino) tend to vary due to inconsistencies in the crude from which they are obtained. The properties and performance features of synthetics on the other hand, are very predictable due to their molecular uniformity, ... creating the ideal lubricant. Since their inception, manufacturers of Synthetic Motor Oils have sought to educate the public about the facts regarding synthetics, and the need for consumers to make their lubrication purchasing decisions based on quality rather than price. Though it sounds too good to be true, synthetics do reduce engine wear, improve gas mileage and increase horsepower. This is because synthetic oil molecules are superior in a number of ways to mineral-based oils. - higher resistance to heat (up to 600 deg. F) - Added lubricity (uniform diameter of synthetic oil polymers allows them to more easily slide over one another. The resultant reduction in friction shows up as more horsepower and torque and reduced internal engine wear) - Higher film strength (one of the major benefits of synthetics, since film strength is what keeps oil molecules from being pushed away from each other under pressure) - better "pour points", "flash points", "fire points" - "high temperature and high sheer viscosity - and so on and so forth ..... Bottom Line ... Everyone should be using Synthetic Lubricants. __________________________________________________ You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below. Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/20/2004 06:57:03	Amsoil and The Role of Motor Oil = Amzoil IP: Logged Message: THE ROLE OF MOTOR OIL Before we can discuss what makes a good motor oil, it helps to understand what role motor oil actually plays in the performance of an engine. While motor oils serve a variety of functions, they are primarily necessary to lubricate and to cool the engine. When the engine is at rest, the motor oil sits in the bottom of the engine block in what is called the oil pan. Upon start-up, an oil pump feeds oil from the pan to the oil distribution system by means of a network of passages, tubes, grooves and holes leading to the engine bearings and other surfaces needing pressurized oil for lubrication. Other parts, like the overhead valve system, receive a carefully controlled quantity of non-pressurized oil through splashing or spray. In addition to lubricating and cooling engine parts, motor oil must allow easy starting, protect the engine from corrosion and oxidation, keep the engine clean, form a tight seal between piston rings and cylinder walls and help the engine use fuel efficiently. In days gone by motor oil was made from the throwaway byproducts of a barrel of crude oil after everything useful was taken from it. In those early days the filter, if you had one at all, was a by-pass type, filtering only a small percentage of the oil. In some instance the filter was little more than a screen and the oil was changed every five hundred or thousand miles. (Some of us recall grandpa's stories of tires needing to be changed on every trip to town, the idea of longevity being somewhat foreign back then.) As cars and their engines became more sophisticated, so too the requirements of a lubricant became increasingly demanding. In the 1960's jet fighter pilots and their mechanics were becoming aware of the advantages of synthetic oils, and a few of them experimented with the notion of synthetic lubrication for automobiles. One of these pilots, Lt. Colonel Albert J. Amatuzio, went further than the haphazard experiments of his peers. His ten year quest resulted in the development of AMSOIL, the first automotive synthetic motor oil to exceed the certification requirements of the American Petroleum Institute (API). __________________________________________________ You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below. Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/20/2004 07:07:06	Amsoil SYNTHETIC VS. CONVENTIONAL MOTOR OIL IP: Logged Message: SYNTHETIC VS. CONVENTIONAL PETROLEUM Conventional lubricants are refined from crude oil which has thousands of types of molecules. Refining is a process of physically separating the impurities from the oil and further separating the light and heavy components. Because refining separates products by weight, it groups molecules of similar weight and dissimilar structure. The result is a lubricant with a wide assortment of molecules. Some of the substances in crude oil are detrimental to lubrication. Paraffins, for example, are a common conventional oil contaminant that causes motor oil to thicken in cold temperatures. Synthetic motor oils are made from pure chemicals, not refined crude. Their components are chemically reacted to produce finished products with pre-designed performance characteristics. Because of their molecular uniformity, they excel in reducing friction, which improves fuel efficiency, controls heat and reduces wear. This molecular uniformity also helps synthetics resist thinning in hot temperatures and thickening in cold. __________________________________________________ Synthetic Lubricants are a product of the trend towards increasingly complex industrial and automotive equipment designed to meet ever more severe operating conditions - such as extremes of temperature in the operating cycle, the need for sealed-for-life components or extended overhaul periods. In these cases the equipment has exceeded the performance capabilities of conventional mineral oil based lubricants, and created the need to develop synthetic oils. When we talk about synthetic oils we are describing the base fluid which, as in conventional lubricants, acts as a carrier for conventional additive packages. The following short definitions of the terms often used by those involved in the lubrication business will be helpful as a start to this bulletin. Mineral Oils - Lubricants whose base stocks are derived solely from direct distillation and separation of crude oil or "Dino". Synthetic Oils - Lubricants whose base stocks are pure chemicals. They are NOT based on the simple refining of crude oil ("Dino"), but are manufactured by the conversion of certain chemicals into synthetic bases with controlled structure and predictable properties. Part or Partial Synthetics - These are mineral oils blended with synthetic oil. This has the effect of combining the desired features of each into the single oil. The term semi-synthetic is sometimes used to describe these oils. This is misleading as this term is used to describe a quite different fluid as shown below. Semi-Synthetics - These oils use the same raw material as mineral oils. However, the oil is further chemically manipulated after distillation. This process removes many unwanted compounds (such as those containing nitrogen, oxygen and sulphur) and converts many of the sludge-forming compounds into less reactive hydrocarbons. However, Semi-Synthetic Oils are FAKE Synthetic Oil and do not offer the same advantages of using a TRUE 100% Synthetic Oil. * FOR MORE INFORMATION KEEP READING BELOW * Classes of lubricants All synthetic base fluids are not the same. Therefore, not all synthetic oils are the same. There are many useful classes for the production of lubricants. The principle classes have proved to be esters, phosphorus esters, polyalkylglycols and synthesised hydrocarbons or polyalphaolefins. There are also classes within classes and the characteristics and performances of a synthetic base oil can vary considerably from one chemical structure to another. Selection of the correct base fluid for a particular application is important. Why use 100% TRUE Synthetic Lubricants? Longer oil life --Enhanced thermal and oxidative stability Benefit = Use less oil, less down time, longer filter life, lower disposal costs Reduced oil consumption -- Lower volatility and higher density Benefit = Less top up, less inventory Safer operation -- Higher flash points, fire points Benefit = Lower maintenance costs, lower replacement parts cost Predictable properties -- Uniformity of product characteristics Benefit = Lower product rejection, lower maintenance As mentioned earlier, these fluids are pure hydrocarbon chemicals, enabling particular specifications to be met. Compared with conventional mineral oil or FAKE Semi-Synthetic formulations, no synthetic oil is cheap. The higher cost of the synthetic may be set against a lower oil consumption, lengthened drain periods, increased parts life, longer overhaul life or reduced maintenance costs. __________________________________________________ For more information ... ... and to Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog... click below. Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
tc Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/21/2004 00:40:33	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: Dont waste money on a semi-synthetic. What percentage is synthetic? 1% ??? You dont know! Also, even Castrol's full-synthetic is a class 3 synthetic lube - meaning its highly refined mineral oil, not the preferred type of synthetic (class 4 & 5) made from PAO base stocks. Many of the synthetics available are the "fake" synthetics. The only real synthetics are: Amsoil (except their 7500 series), Mobil 1, Redline, & Royal Purple. In general, you should not get an oil leak when switching to synthetic. I must qualify that statement, because I have personal experience that shows otherwise - but also a solution. My first choice for a synthetic is Amsoil. Superior product. BUT - I have had 3 different vehicles that developed rear main oil seal leaks with Amsoil. One of the trucks was brand new. In each case the leak disappeared when I switched to Mobil 1. So I run Amsoil in most of my cars and use Mobil 1 in the one that doesn't like Amsoil.
JerryM Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/21/2004 11:55:38	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: Thanks TC and everyone else, Sounds like Mobil 1 full synthetic will work fine. I currently change oil every 3k with semi synthetic. What is the recomended oil change interval for full synthetic?
HSKR Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/21/2004 13:49:16	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: Really depends on the filter you use. I wouldn't try 6K oil changes with a Fram filter, but if you buy a decent filter, there is no reason you can't go 6K between changes. UNless you offroad a lot, or race your truck that is.
steveJ Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/21/2004 21:10:03	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: Also, quit using that original sized dinky oil filter. After a bit of research on oil filter quality, I started using AC/Delco oil filters (equivalent to Fram PH-8A) on my 4.7L. Higher capacity, more filter medium, and better filtering, in my opinion.
GraphiteDak GenIII 11/21/2004 22:51:37	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: Well today I changed the oil on our Grand Caravan. It only has 12k miles on it now. I forgot to order a AMSOIL filter so I bought a FRAM. I planned on changing the filter at 7,500 miles then the oil at 15,000 miles. AMSOIL says you can go up to 25,000 miles in a year. My wife doesn't drive it very hard but it does run here in Phoenix so you know how that traffic can be. If I like it ok in the Grand Caravan I'll start using it in the Dakota when that blasted Pre Paid Dealer maintenance expires. Which wont be for about another year (36,000 miles). The ginea pig :-) It's got the 3.8 pushrod V6. I think I was using 10w-30 but ordered AMSOIL 5w-30. It should be ok. Hope the gas mileage goes up. It isn't that much better than my V8 Dakota.
tc Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/21/2004 23:22:11	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: I wouldn't hesitate to run a synthetic 10-15K miles. Or, if you are skeptical, twice a year.
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/22/2004 08:44:44	Amsoil SDF oil filters and Over-Sized Filters IP: Logged Message: Helpful Information regarding: (1) Amsoil SDF oil filters and pricing, and (2) the use of over-sized filters. I know that the SDF-42 is the filter usually recommended. (for specific applications please ask and I will respond). Amsoil SDF-42 Retail Price = $11.90 (Nov. 2004) AMSOIL SUPER DUTY FULL-FLOW ENGINE OIL FILTERS Pricing --- Wt. Lbs. --- Cost Group 1 ----- 1.0 ----- $10.10 Group 2 ----- 1.0 ----- $10.80 Group 3 ----- 1.0 ----- $11.90 Group 4 ----- 1.0 ----- $13.90 Group 5 ----- 2.0 ----- $18.65 -------------------------------- Group 1: SDF-23, 29, 30, 34, 57 Group 2: SDF-11, 15, 22, 24, 25, 32, 96 Group 3: SDF-10, 20, 36, 42, 44, 45, 52, 64, 84 Group 4: SDF-13, 76 Group 5: SDF-26, 41, 80, 99 Amsoil Preferred Customers Pricing is approximately 20% less. AMSOIL SUPER DUTY FULL-FLOW ENGINE OIL FILTERS (SDF Filters) are composed of a special Cellulose, Synthetic and Glass Blend Media to provide longer life and improved efficiency. Performance tests demonstrated that AMSOIL SDF Filters provide over 75 percent better combined efficiency/capacity than other popular filters. AMSOIL SDF Filters contain a combination of cellulose, synthetic and glass blend media to provide longer life and improved efficiency. An oil pressure relief valve assures proper oil flow at all times under all operating conditions. Each heavy-duty case has a drawn steel double-crimp at the base with rolled-under seaming. A proprietary elastometer anti-drain back valve keeps dirty oil in the filter when engine is not running. __________________________________________________ Over-sized Filters TRUE or FALSE -- Bigger = Better. FALSE -- "Bigger" does NOT mean better ! 1) The Amsoil SDF 42 oil filter is same size as OEM. I believe there are longer/deeper versions that may work well ... but trust me ... the SDF 42 is more than sufficient for your needs (rated to the 12.5k mile max. or 6 month change interval). 2) when you go outside the usually recommended size (Amsoil SDF 42) I am afraid that you are you own to find out what fits, ... never a guarantee. 3) The "length" dimensions of the SDF-42, 96, 15 and even the 26 are below. All 4 are about 3.72" Outside Diameter, ... Amsoil SDF 42 = 3.966" long Amsoil SDF 96 = 4.336" long Amsoil SDF 15 = 5.726" long Amsoil SDF 26 = 7.125" long And of course all have 3/4"-16 threads. __________________________________________________ Regarding Larger Filters Why a larger filter? Are you looking for a larger filter to help lower your operating temperatures? If so, using the SDF 96 would not have much of an effect --- maybe one of the longer versions would drop it by a few degrees. You could either measure around the current filter and see how much clearance for additional length, or buy an SDF-96 next change, it should fit with ease (less than 4/10th of an inch longer). Then check again to see how much room you have, lengthwise. Don't compromise and allow the filter to be in a position where it might be too long and be at risk for damage if struck. OK? I believe the specs are about the same among the filters except for the length. Concern would be clearance problems. To be sure, you will have to make a measurement for the clearance on the engine. It is true that the SDF-96 has more media --- but the specs are almost identical --- so why pay more. (Believe it or not, some manufacturers use the same media in all size filters --- and in the filters that have MORE media --- in many cases they are MORE restrictive). Question to myself ... is more media what we want, or is it proper flow and filtration? Answer: Flow and Filtration !!! __________________________________________________ Concerns of using an Oversized Filter: A lot of people are using carefully selected oversized filters in their vehicles in order to get a bit more capacity. The key is to balance capacity with flow and filtration. Flow and Filtration are more important. Physical Clearance --- If your filter is located near any moving parts like suspension arms --- you have to make sure that you have clearance when the suspension moves. When making any filter substitutions, you should always make sure that there is sufficient clearance to install and remove the filter ... and that it doesn't hit anything as the engine moves on its mounts. You should also make sure the filter doesn't hang significantly below the engine, where it may be impacted by the road, or anything on the road or in the woods ... when you off-road. This is not always easily accomplished because your engine will move as it rev's and as your vehicle travels over the bumps and potholes of the highway or off-road. Does the oil filter stick out under the engine? If so, a longer filter can be much more susceptible to rock and curb damage. The final issue is bypass valve setting. Using any filter that is not within specifications with OEM may cause you to have either lower oil pressure or higher oil pressure depending upon the manufacturer. BOTTOM LINE FOR EVERYONE: USE CAUTION. __________________________________________________ You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below. Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/22/2004 08:50:41	Steven Roark Amsoil Dealer # 1061837 - Oil Filters IP: Logged Message: For the Dakota owners that want an "oversized filter": If the recommendation is for the Amsoil SDF-42, I believe the Amsoil SDF-96 increases the effective sump size by 0.5 quarts vs. the Amsoil SDF-42 (same size as OEM). This translates into the SDF-96 providing more filter capacity and reducing the pressure drop across the filter on cold starts. Also, the larger filter (SDF-96) should help lower your operating temperatures a few degrees. Special Note: When using other that what is recommended -- The issue is bypass valve setting and oil pressure. Using any filter that is not within specifications with OEM may cause you to have either lower oil pressure or higher oil pressure depending upon the manufacturer. __________________________________________________ For those who are not mechanics: The true meaning of "oversized" --- has little to do with "can size", and everything to do with "total media area" --- what is inside the can. A manufacturer might be able to increase their media area by 25% or more simply by doing some research, with no increase in the can size. Warning: Believe it or not, some manufacturers use the same media in all size filters. Some manufacturers "cram" additional media into smaller cans so that they can advertise "more media" -- and in the filters where the include MORE media --- in many cases they are MORE restrictive. Be Aware! We don't want to give the impression that oversized filters are necessary. They are beneficial -- but most quality OEM "stock-size" filters will perform very well if changed regularly. __________________________________________________ You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below. Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
steveJ Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/22/2004 11:53:02	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: Geez, Amsoil robot. Throttle back some. It was just an opinin. The oversized filter I use (and recommend) fits just fine on the 4.7. Thread pitch, gasket size and placement are a match for the OEM filter. As for filter quality: http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/
Dex Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/22/2004 12:22:57	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: AmsoilSponsor, I put my first order in for some product from your site for on Friday 11/19. First - Friday- e-mail says I didn't provide my home address. Second - Monday - e-mail says I didn't give all my credit card numbers. I just called with the cc #. I know I gave all that info. You may want to check this out.
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/22/2004 12:43:55	Steven Roark = Amsoil Dealer # 1061837 -= Amzoil IP: Logged Message: steveJ, My posts were not directed at you or your comment. They were posted "for information purposes only". FYI ... the filter study link you provided is about an oil filter study prepared by an amateur ... and the study is dated 1999 ... making it five (5) years old. A lot changes in five (5) years. Many manufacturers (including oil filter manufacturers) have reduced the quality of their products to meet WalMarts price targets. Be Aware ... Be Careful ... and Use Caution! __________________________________________________ Dex, If you send to me via Email ... your Name, Address, and your Email Address ... then I can make certain that everything is settled and contact you. Sorry for the inconvenience. __________________________________________________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
christian86 Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/25/2004 01:05:10	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: damn Amsoil man, how much are you getting paid...to flock over this site?
AmsoilSponsor DakotaEnthusiast 11/25/2004 07:18:12	Amsoil Semi or Full Synthetic Oil - Amzoil IP: Logged Message: Nothing ... I actually pay to advertise on this site with a rotating Banner Ad ... and unlike you I also pay the annual fee to be a member. I support this site with advertising dollars and a membership fee ... and Mark, the site owner, is a personal friend. I hope that you find my posts helpful! __________________________________________________ Thank You ... and ... _________________ _________________ __________ *** Happy Thanksgiving! *** __________ Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
JerryM Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 11/25/2004 10:03:55	RE: Semi or Full Synthetic Oil? IP: Logged Message: Thanks for all the posts to my original message. I bought Mobil 1 full synthetic and a Purolator Pure One filter for my 2000 4.7 Liter. I am going to shoot for oil changes every 5K and see how that works. Happy Holidays Everyone!
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