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jasonsdakota
Dodge Dakota
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11/11/2004
20:54:59
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 Subject: 5 spd auto is worthless
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i test drove a 04 dakota 4.7 5spd auto. at first i was impressed with the number of downshifts you can get on the highway. here i was cruisin at 55 and slowly hit the gas so it shifted one gear at a time.
1-downshifted to overdrive #1 (4)
2-downshifted to drive (3)
3-downshifted to second gear (2) and we were off!
but then i hopped in my truck and first of all more power off the line (ho cams-longer intake on 2000) but the downshifting was the same except i have torque converter lockup instead of two overdrives.
1-torque convertor unlocked (4) still in fourth/overdrive
2-downshifted to drive(3)
3-downshifted to second (2)
does anyone see what i mean. that second overdrive just took over torque converter lockup.
so whats the point of two overdrives?
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daffydak
GenIII
11/11/2004
21:03:05
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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there's no converter lockup on the 5-45RFE? I didn't know that. that sucks.... I really like how my 45RFE shifts, since I did have a 98 3.9L with the 42RE (that was about the MOST indecisive tranny I have ever had!) the 45RFE shifts nice and smooth, and holds gears longer for hills etc... and I like that my passing gear winds out at ~85mph (and if I manually hold it in 2nd, I can hit 90+ before the rev limiter at 6200)
00 CC Sport Plus 4.7L 4X4 Auto, 3:55 LSD
Flowmaster orig. 40 series (2 chamber) muffler, adjusted tps to .76V, ported TB, home brew intake setup w/K&N filter, more mods to come!!!
Dan
MOPAR=More Power!!
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/11/2004
21:22:56
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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There is too a lockup on the 5-45RFE.
I can watch mine lockup. You can always tell by the rock steady RPM's on varying throttle movement.
The only thing I'll admit is that IF you are in OD and say doing 50 and you hammer it, it DON'T skip gears. It drops out of OD directly to 3rd, and THEN into 2nd and hauls major a$$ from there.
You don't notice it drop from lockup, to 4th, to 3rd, to 2nd. It's doesn't do that at all.
Upshifting at steady throttle you CAN feel the 1st to 2nd to 3rd to a brief 4th then lockup and 5th or a slight variation of that sequence.
4th is almost useless. Every once in a blue moon on a slight incline my truck will decide to use it when towing. It seems to be locked up when it does use 4th. It's rare tho.
It is STILL the best auto tranny Dodge has ever made. Hands down.
The 46RE was a confused tranny and people have to f*ck with the downshift linkage constantly to try and get it to rap out in drive and still shift correctly otherwise.
And when I drop in my 4.10 gears I'll be happy my tranny has the .67 ratio OD vs. the .75 the 46RE and manuals have (not counting the six speed).
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daffydak
GenIII
11/12/2004
00:54:45
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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what does your truck tach running 60mph GraphiteDak? and if you turn O/D off, that puts you in fourth gear right (as opposed to me being in third)
Just curious....
00 CC Sport Plus 4.7L 4X4 Auto, 3:55 LSD
Flowmaster orig. 40 series (2 chamber) muffler, adjusted tps to .76V, ported TB, home brew intake setup w/K&N filter, more mods to come!!!
Dan
MOPAR=More Power!!
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dodgetech02
Dodge Dakota
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11/12/2004
07:53:06
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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The 545rfe has 2 2nd gears one is a prime the other one is for passing on the e-way it has lock up too
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RaZOR1
Dodge Dakota
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11/12/2004
14:38:09
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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Only problem i have with this tranny is the shift into third when racing (1/4mile not street). I have a kenne bell on there and they firmed up the shift to 2nd but my shift into third is sloppy as HELL!!!! I'm still looking for a solution. As for everyday driveng i love the tranny. Super smooth and nice downshifts for passing(The blower helps I'll admit). I've wanted to try the torque management thing but i'm afraid it may mess with the blower.?(2000 dak) Do you guys think it may be the torque converter?? Any idea how to up the line pressure???
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/12/2004
16:28:53
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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I've heard it claimed that line pressure is a little higher with OD off, but I'm guessing you may be doing that already when racing ?
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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jasonsdakota
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2004
01:57:23
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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graphitedak,
when you say this new tranny is the best auto dodge has every made, what specifically do you like about it. i'm trying to keep an open mind to it. i LOVE the idea of a higher second gear so for passing second holds more mph. is it any stronger than the four speed auto it replaced. i'm guessing no. it's no worse, that's for sure. talk to me
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/13/2004
06:21:35
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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Jason - Are you comparing trucks with the same gears ? You should expect more power in your HO cammed truck, if it has lower gears too, that would make the difference even greater. 545RFE is a fairly strong unit, its also what the chose to live behind the hemi. For one thing there's no bands in this design to wear out.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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marc
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2004
23:19:58
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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There is a lock-up on the convertor, its basically a necessity to meet EPA standards. BTW, it says on the window sticker when you buy a new dakota.
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jasonsdakota
Dodge Dakota
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11/13/2004
23:38:14
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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the fact that mine had more power off the line wasn't a related comment to the tranny in question, but yes you caught me. mine had advantages over the 04 like the ho cams, longer intake runners(not for long), and 3.92 vs it's 3.55 gears. there was nothing wrong with the five speed i just wasn't seeing it's advantage after i drove my truck home. HOWEVER, give us a five speed shifter so we can pick our own gear and that would be awesome!
kowalski, whats that about the bands?
"oh when the saints... come marching in..."
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/13/2004
23:40:29
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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daffydak, manually disengaging OD drops it into 3rd gear. That's a 1:1 ratio in the 5-45RFE and pretty much any auto out there. In OD mine sits around 1500 or so to do about 60MPH. When I go to 4.10 gears I'll be still just 1900 RPM's in OD. At 75 MPH where I do most of my towing my RPM's in OD will go from 2000 to 2300 which should help me stay in OD with lest downshifting.
1st 3.00
2nd 1.67 - upshift; 1.50 kick-down
3rd 1.00
4th 0.75
5th 0.67
That's the gear ratios I read and saved form elsewhere for the 5-45RFE.
And we sure as sh*t have a lockup. The lockup reduces tranny temp big time especially when towing. You all would know it if you had no lockup. We would not sit at a rock steady 1600 or so RPM's at 60MPH and have the RPMS's rock steady as you slowly increased throttle. If it was UNLOCKED the RPM's would go up to our approx 2000 stall speed when it's unlocked.
oh, jasonsdakota I say that about this tranny because the 924, 727, 46RE, etc were mechanical, didn't have a vacuum modulator, were a PAIN to adjust the downshift, etc. And they burned up fairly easily without mods.
Kowalski pretty much said it. This tranny is heavy duty enough for the HEMI and has no bands. That is a great improvement.
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jasonsdakota
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2004
01:08:04
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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ok, i can appreciate a stronger transmission. you may be selling me now. the shift pattern was certainly no worse than mine, and the rpms were lower but also had lower gear. what are transmission bands and what do they do. if they have a specific job in mine, what does that job in the new one.
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Kowlski
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2004
06:37:14
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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You don't have bands in your 45RFE either; its the others that do. Auto behind all 4.7s is based on an electronically controled, planetary gear design. We had you figured for the band camp type, no saints here... ;-)
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figols
Dodge Dakota
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11/14/2004
11:56:25
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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dodgetech02, the 45rfe & the 5-45rfe both have 2 second gears. The 45rfe was never really called a 4 speed tranny, but rather it was called a "multi-speed" tranny by Dodge. I'm not sure if they call the 5-45rfe the same. The 5-45rfe has an additional top gear over the 45rfe. So I guess you can actually say that the 45rfe has 5 gears and the 5-45rfe has 6. I don't know of any claims of a performance advantage with the 5-45rfe over the 45rfe. I think it is mostly a gas mileage advantage(although not much)to meet EPA requirements.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/14/2004
21:26:41
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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Like he said ^
That .67 top OD ratio kind of sucks a little when towing. Mine so rarely will use that .75 (4th) but when it does it's golden. It will hold a constant speed and get me good MPG when I'm towing.
When not towing it's not a concern. Truck hauls ass anytime anywhere.
The 4.10 gears are going to be awesome and should keep mine in OD more often when towing. Sometimes I'm alomost tempted to go 4.56's. Some guy here said he did on the same truck as mine and he loves them.
Tough choice.
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RaZoR1
Dodge Dakota
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11/15/2004
17:26:32
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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Kowalski.... yes i'm running with od off.
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dodgetech02
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2004
08:12:05
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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lock up is not considered a gear raito by mopar the 45rfe can have lock up in 4th.The 454rfe has 5 gear raitos and lock up GEAR RATIOS 1ST 3.00:1
2ND 1.67:1
2ND Prime 1.50:1
3RD 1.0:1
4TH 0.75:1
5TH 0.67:1
REVERSE 3.00:1
the 45 is
GEAR RATIOS 1ST 3.00:1
2ND 1.67:1
2ND Prime 1.50:1
3RD 1.0:1
4TH 0.75:1
REVERSE 3.00:1
the 454 has a 5th gear will this help at all
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/16/2004
23:20:02
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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I think you meant the 5-45RFE and the 45RFE?
But that's the same as what I had posted. I got that list of ratios from someone a while back.
I guess the 45RFE trannys are all the same until programming added the .67 ratio, and it could be added to 2000 to 2002 or so daks as well making them the same as current.
I kind of wish mine would stay in 4th gear longer and maybe just use 5th after it has been at a steady speed or something. When towing it only occasionally uses that magical "4th" gear providing it to stay out of 3rd more often and save me gas but it's random almost.
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info
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2004
23:28:43
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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The 545RFE trans is mechanically identical to the 45RFE. The trans controller software is what actually adds the extra gear (believe it or not). It was a reflash of the trans controller to eliminate a driveline noise in the Grand Cherokee that originally created the 545RFE. Some Grands would have a harmonic noise while cruising at some highway speeds and the reflash added a gear to lower the rpms and move the noise to a different speed. It proved to be cheaper to make one tranny controller program than two, so now all 4.7 and 5.7 trucks with an auto trans have this software. It is really interesting that you can get an extra gear just from some software changes. I have also heard from a couple of DCX tech instructors that they can actually achieve yet another gear with further controller changes although they probably won't do it.
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jasonsdakota
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2004
23:45:39
| RE: 5 spd auto is worthless
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WHAT? mechanicly identical. no way.
seriously, i don't think so.
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