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smoke
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2004
23:01:45
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 Subject: RE: 360ci are weak!
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The 4.7 motor revs and the 360 runs out of breath instantly. I had an r/t and it could not get out of it's own way on the highway. The 4.7 is a better motor all together. I have beaten many modded r/t at the strip with ease in my 4.7 2wd reg cab auto. The 360 was blessed with torque though. 4.7 has none. No offense to r/t owners.
SMOKE
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Yellow99R/T
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2004
23:43:44
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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Yes, but even the oldest of the engines you listed are only a quarter the age of the original 360's, it is very much a dated design that has to be heavily restricted to meet emissions (3 cats on some R/T's) and has piss poor fuel economy. The 4.7L's and 5.7L's that replaced it are much more environmentally friendly and use a slightly less amount of fuel. As for the V10, it was originally in the Ram and Vans as well as the Viper. It got replaced the by the Hemi in the Ram's and the van's (the new Sprinters) only get the lower engines. The reason why the Viper still has it is because no other engine is available for the Viper to date that can make the same horse power and torque and maintain it's street legal rating.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2004
00:57:33
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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That's my point, Yellow99. The V10 for the Viper is still there, and now even larger and more powerful. None of that changes the fact that it must still pass emissions. If DC wanted to, it could easily do the same with a 318 or 360, but there's no hype frenzy in a more powerful old engine when you can say, "Hey look! The legend returns, new and improved!" This is history repeating, pure and simple. Mopar did Hemis in the 50's, late 60's to early 70's, and now they're at it again. Personally, I'm glad to see it, but to say the V8 Magnums weren't able to manage more power is wrong. The basics are there. Even the heads, raw and unported, will support 400hp. The fact they never did this from the factory, I've already covered. The fact that the old-tech V10 still passes emissions, and kicks out 500hp doing it is a strong indicator that the Magnum V8's could easily be both higher output and clean if DC has been so inclined. As stated, by the time it became a concern, the Hemi was already on the comeback. It was corporate mentality and money that killed the V8 Magnums, and will soon kill that Viper V10. At least the Viper will finally sound like the badass that it is. Ironically, the 426 Hemi was initially considered as a possible powerplant for the original Viper, but the V10 was chosen because, at the time, it was considered more appropriate to the exotic nature of the car. Ahhh, how times change. Get 'em while you can boys. In a few years, the Hemi will disappear again, just like Godzilla.
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but
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2004
10:07:56
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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Guys you have to remember what else was available when the R/T came out! There was nothing with much more power than 250 HP as far as trucks go in in 98 and surely not for a mid sized truck. .Take a look at the last few years and check out how hp is jumping up in everything, we are living in good times right now as far as the HP wars go.The R/T had lots of power when introduced,its draw back is its weight.But freak does it do wicked burn outs!!
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00 RT/BC
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2004
15:09:48
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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gen1dak I was to believe the original concept engine for the viper was a Twin Turbo 360.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2004
18:48:59
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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Not. It may have been considered as a possible production powerplant, but it was not in the original concept Viper.
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R/T
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2004
18:59:02
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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Accauly I think that is pretty interesting 00 RT/BC. Where did you hear that?
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
8/12/2004
21:18:09
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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something you guys need to look at is that the MPI 360 is a dozen years old. It's old, it's out of date, and it's already been replaced.
back when it was first manufactured, it made a lot of power for it's time. It just took mopar a few years longer to jump in with a new, more powerful motor like chevy and ford already did.
6.6 Lt. Big Block, 727 TF shift kit, 452 heads, edelbrock 750 cfm, .513/.513 284/300 crower cam, comp cams springs, comp cams pushrods, 1.5 roller rockers, dp intake, mopar ignition, mopar windage tray, dual exhaust w/ 40 series flowmasters, 4.10 gears, coilover drag suspension, approx, 3500 lbs
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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8/12/2004
23:25:36
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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Well shame on Dodge for letting a engine go unchanged for that long. Ford, Toyota, Chevrolet, Nissan all make more HP/Displacement then the Dodge magnums. Thankfully they finally brought the HEMI to life...still doesn't help the Dakota any.
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00 RT/BC
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2004
12:20:15
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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Since one of the goals of the new team process was to prove that dowdy old Chrysler could move as fast as the Japanese, the developers of the Viper were put on a fast track in more ways than one. Within 12 months of the car's first auto show appearance a V-8-powered "mule" was being tested, but the Chrysler execs felt a V-8 just wouldn't do, since part of the effort's goal was to "out-Corvette Corvette." And in their heart of hearts the men of Team Viper knew their creation wouldn't be as sophisticated as Chevrolet's supercar. That meant a giant V-10, drawing on Chrysler's truck engine experience, should be brought into play. In May 1990, Chrysler announced it would build production Vipers and that they would be equipped with massive aluminum alloy V-10 engines.
Clipped this from www.autoswalk.com, which I think suggests at least to me that the original concept even if it was a mule was being "tested" with a V8. Whether or not twin turbos were ever on the engine I can't say but they may have been proposed and tested at some time.
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00 RT/BC
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2004
12:44:53
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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Ok I was wrong the original concept viper VM01 did not have a TT 360 although it may have been considered it certainly did have a 5.9L as the original concept engine.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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8/13/2004
21:10:48
| RE: 360ci are weak!
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The V8 "mule" was just that. It was used to make testing the car possible because the aluminum V10 was not available initially. The iron V10 would not have been a test mule engine due to the weight differences that would throw the weight bias too far forward. Why wait (months) for an engine to be developed when they could begin testing (suspension, handling, braking) with an available engine. They were, after all, trying to prove something. There was quite a bit of roadwork that could be done just as well with a V8, but a 360 was never considered for this car. Something the article didn't mention was that some of the mule work was done with a 360 tied to an automatic transmission (This setup was also used in some of the set Vipers used on the Viper TV series). It doesn't mean an automatic was ever going into the production unit. The V8 discussion was in what to use. "A 360? No. A Hemi? Yeah! No, how about an aluminum V10." And the rest is history. The concept car, as shown on the showcar circuit had a custom, handmade V10 intended for the show. It should also be known that EVERY single curve in the concept car body was changed for the production model. They look the same til you see them side-by-side.
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