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Fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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7/19/2004
19:52:32
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 Subject: Drivetrain Vibration
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I have a 2000 5.9 full time 4x4 Dodge Durango, The vibration comes and goes at speeds above 60mph. It's kinda funny, It vibrates under load, then it stops.
It can't be coming from the tranny, because, in nuetral, i still get the vibration above 60mph.
So, i am putting my bet on the rear U-joints and Drive shaft. Sometimes, when i am coasting with the gas pedal slightly down to releive drive line stress, the vibration goes away.
Any help from you guys would be greatly appreciated.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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7/20/2004
00:08:11
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Sounds like you're right on target. Time to crawl around on the ground for a while.
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Fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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7/20/2004
03:23:09
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Just wondering if, any of the other shafts could cause the vibration. Or just the main one to the rear?
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David
Dodge Dakota
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7/20/2004
21:36:39
|  RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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I have a 98' had a vib changed U-joints but it did not solve the problem. then about 200 miles in to a 1,000 milt trip the vib stopped! not good trany has a cracked case as well as the xfer. Good Luck!
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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7/21/2004
23:18:44
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Well,
Changed the U-Joints in the rear shaft and had it balanced. It helped a little bit, However the vibration is still present. Gonna take the front shaft out this weekend and run it without the front. Since this is a full time 4-wheel drive, planning on locking the center diff and driving it without the front shaft.
I am crossing my finger and hoping that it is the front shaft. However, i still have doubts.
Dodge Dakota, did you ever figure out what was the cause of your vibration?
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2004
12:00:16
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Does anyone know, if there is alignment markings that i should be aware about on the rear drive shaft?
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2004
12:21:32
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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OK, finally got a chance to talk with a Dodge Mechanic. He told me how the dealer does it. Once you get your new u-joints installed and the shaft placed back in the car. You need to drive it. If, you get a vibration. You need to index the drive shaft. That means, there are 4 bolts that holds your driveshaft to the rear axle and 8 holes on the rear flange. Now, you need to rotate the drive shaft 45 deg. to the next set of holes. Then drive it again. if the vibration is still present rotate it another 45 deg. Eventually, you will find a sweet spot where there will be no vibration or very minimal. At this time, you can add additional weights to eliminate the vibration completely. Well, at this time, i will probably take it to a shop and have it professionally done. But, want to get the vibration to a minimum first.
Another way, that i have found on the net is to put your car on jack stands and support the rear axle and front control arms so the suspension is near netual (like if the car is sitting flat on the ground). Take all of your tires off. Put the lug nuts back to hold the drums and front disc in place. Now, run your car up to 70mph. If you get a vibration. Take off the rear drums. Do not step on the brakes at this point. If, you do, you will push the rear brake cylinders out and have a bloody mess. Now run the car again to 70mph. Just place trans in nuetral and let your drivetrain stop itself (do not step on the brake pedal) If, no vibration. Then you need to get your drums balanced. If, the vibration is still there, then start indexing your rear flange 45 deg until there is very minimal vibration.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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7/23/2004
02:01:32
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Ok,
Did the 45 deg increments, found the sweet spot. Very minimal vibration. Next step take it to a shop and have the shaft balanced in the vehicle.
Cross my fingers that balancing it at a shop will get my Durang back to new car smooth.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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7/23/2004
16:39:57
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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I found this at another website to balance the rear driveshaft which i thought might be helpful.
A car is normally more sensitive to imbalance at the rear of the driveshaft. Therefore, mark the rear of the shaft in four places (every 90°) about 6" forward of the weld. Number the marks 1 through 4 as shown in the diagram below.
Install a worm type hose clamp with the screw positioned on mark #1. Test the vehicle at the mph that the vibration previously occurred. Note any change in the vibration (better or worse)
Move the hose clamp to position #2. Road test the vehicle at the mph that the vibration previously occurred. Note any change in the vibration (better or worse)
Repeat the test with the hose clamp in position #3 and #4 . Road test the vehicle at the mph that the vibration previously occurred. Note any change in the vibration (better or worse)
If no difference is noted with the clamp in any of the 4
positions, the vibration may not be driveline imbalance.
Move the clamp to the best position (least vibration)
If two adjacent positions are equally good, move the clamp screw midway between the two positions. Road test and note any change in the vibration.
If imbalance is still present with the hose clamp screw in the best position, install another hose clamp with the screw in the best position. Road test and note any change in the vibration.
If the imbalance still exists, the combined weight of the two clamps may be excessive. To reduce this excess, rotate the clamps away from each other approximately ½" (one each way from the best position) as pictured in the diagram above. Road test and note any change in the vibration.
Continue to rotate the clamps apart equally (in small increments) until the balance is best.
If the balance is still unacceptable, mark the front of the shaft in 4 positions and repeat the balancing process outlined in the previous steps.
here's the link
http://www.geocities.com/musclemopars/mopardriveshaft.htm
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2004
11:04:11
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Ok, a little update. 1st. place i took it to, to have the drive shaft fitted with new u-joints and balanced. They didn't take the old weights off and just added new ones. The driveshaft wasn't staight either. It was a little warped. Then i took it to Dick's driveshaft. Another driveshaft specialist in Phoenix, AZ. They straightened it out and balanced perfectly.
Put the driveshaft back in. Still getting a vibration. It kinda phased in and out kinda like new car smooth to bumpy. So, now i suspect one of the mounts are bad. Ordered some new mounts for the Trans and Transfer Case. I will be installing this weekend. So, will keep you guys posted.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2004
21:49:45
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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I ran over "something" on the road a while back and dented my driveshaft. Took it to a driveline shop and they said they could pop the dent and balance.
Later that day they called back and said the aluminum around the dent was fractured, time for a new $300 driveshaft. They built a new 1 peice steel drive shaft, this is where the real problems began.
I took the truck back 7-8 times over the next month or so complaining of vibrations and everytime they worked on it, the vibrations seemed to get worse. Finally I went to another driveline shop and they suggested building an aluminum shaft, only ran $185. Night and day difference, no more vibration.
The owner of the second shop was nice enough to call the first shop and explain to them that I wasn't crazy and that they were able to get the vibration problem resolved. I went back to the first shop and handed them the screwed up steel shaft and they refunded me the $300. I was pretty lucky that I didn't eat $300.
Moral of the story, just because they don't find a problem, doesn't mean there isn't a probelm, just because they say it's fixed, doesn't mean it's fixed.
I found out the hard way.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2004
14:56:54
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Thanks for the input DSW,
I have put new Trans mount, rear wheel bearings and about everything that would be associated with driveline vibration.
I still feel that it's my drive shaft. May look into an aluminum driveshaft.
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Old Fool
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2004
16:11:02
|  RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Before you go dinken with the drive shaft anymore try some new tires. 80% of all my vibrations have come from tires. Even try using your spare and move it around on the truck till you figure out which tire has gone bad (if you have a full sized matched spare).
Later,
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2004
11:50:41
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Old Fool,
You were right about the tires. Got my truck back from Chuck's speed center, where they put it on a dyno. My rear suspension movement was about 1" at 20% load on the engine. I had oval tires. Too bad, because i really liked my BFG All Terrain Tires Just got those dam things this year, Discount Tires gave me full credit for them, now got a set of Michelins LTX. 70-80% of the vibration is gone. While it was there. He also noticed that my driveshaft towards the transfer case had runout. The shaft had be straightened so, it might have made it egged shaped. Thus causing the vibration.
Total runout per Dana on the Drive shaft should be less the .02". I did have a chance to measure the runout. rear, 3" from the weld was .01, middle of the shaft .008, towards the front by the transfer case .21 3" from the weld.
Since 80% of my vibration is gone. Gonna take DSW's advise and have a shop locally build me an aluminum driveshaft. Their in-house runout spec is .005. About 4 times tighter tolerance than Dana. If, this doesn't cure my vibration. Wooooooooo Weeeeeeeeee, I'm gonna take a hammer to my truck.
I believe, the only other items that could cause my vibration is the pinion bearing or draftshafts. I replaced the outer wheel bearings in the rear axle this past weekend. Beleive me, it was pretty darn easy.
I'll keep you guys up to date about my vibration problem.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2004
14:21:27
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Good call on getting the Michelin's. I have LTX's with 70K on them and they still ride smooth as glass at 85 MPH.
fastyz400, were the tires the whole problem or did you have drive line vibration along with the bad tires. I thought you removed the tires and rear drums to take these sources of vibration out of the picture while trying to track down the vibration. Just wondering if the driveline was OK at one time, only to be messed up with all the work done on it trying to balance it.
It was real strange when they were working on the steel shaft in my truck, the more they worked on it, the worse the vibration got. I would think the vibration would get less intense as the dialed in the shaft, guess not.
Oh, they were trying to blame bad tires as the culprit for my vibrations. Had them balanced 2 times during the drive line thing, even shecked them for runout, they were darn near perfect.
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Kowalski
GenIII
8/10/2004
15:20:10
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Are you sure vibration is coming from the rear ? Worn cv joints in front axles and even worn ball joints can feed vibration into your driveline; took my freind the alignment specialist a while to figure that one out when he saw it in a Ram. Good luck.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2004
15:24:17
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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DSW,
Q: Did you have a vibration prior to all this work.
A: No, i had a bad U-joint from the get go. You could feel play in it. That's when the roller coaster ride began.
I made a mistake about the Drums, no matter if it's new drums or old drums, still the same vibration.
Chuck's performance is independent of the driveshaft shops. They were a 3rd party in the equation. They specialize in driveline vibrations. The bounce they believed were in the tires. This Michelins fixed the bounce which was about 70%-80% of my problem. The shudder that's left may be the driveshaft. They told me that you can see the shaft runout near the transfer case. They suggested getting all new components for the Driveshaft. Not just retubing or replacing U-joints. But actually using all new parts.
When i spoke with Tech support at Dana, who manufactures the OEM driveshaft for Dodge. They themselves told me that an egg shaped driveshaft would give you a vibration no matter how good the balance is. They also told me, any shop that uses heat to straighten your shaft is full of crap. This will just aggravate the vibration further due to deformation of the tube itself. There is truth to this, because, i am experiencing it first hand.
So, that's why i am getting a complete new aluminum driveshaft made $325 :( . But, i hope it fixes the problem.
I also spoke to a differential specialist about bent axles and bearings inside my diff. He told me if, i'm not getting any high whines in my rear end, your axle and axle bearing are fine. So, the only other problem would be the output shaft of my transfer case. But, i have already checked the runout of both my diff flange and output shaft yoke. diff flange at .002, yoke on the transfer case at .001. No, bearing or whining noise. Thus, only leaving the driveshaft at fault.
Could you imagine, if i was a chic. How much i'd be paying to get my truck fixed. Maybe, if i'd whored myself out. It would have been fixed for free. lol
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2004
15:27:13
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Kowalski,
I am positive it is in the rear. Mine is a fulltime 4x4. Thus had to remove the front driveshaft to run my vehicle on jack stands. I still have my front shaft off and the front end is rock steady. No vibration what so ever in the front. Before, the front driveshaft was transmitting the vibration to the front. But, now. I know, it's in the rear.
Thanks for the reply though.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2004
19:12:39
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Roller coaster ride,, I know the feeling! The driveline problem I had drove me crazy until I bit the bullet and bought another new shaft to get rid of the probelm.
Heck I was prepared to spend another $300 on the aluminum shaft to get rid of the problem. Luckily Adam's Driveline only charged me $185 for the new aluminum stick, think he gave me a break since I had gone through so much on the steel shaft from the other shop.
The shaft I have is built from all new components, but they reused the OEM tranny and rearend yokes.
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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2004
19:22:26
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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DSW,
Chuck Speed shop told me to use all new components, just in case the holes on the yoke (slide shaft) and the rear flange were warped from all the vibration i was getting.
I'm not taking any chances this time around. I have already dumped $92 first time $45 second time around. lol. Then $150 for Chuck speed center to diagnose my problem. Oh, $192 for upgrades to Micheline at Discount Tire, and about $35 on rear wheel bearings. $65 on Trans mount.
Man it's building up in price. I'm going to try a barter with the driveshaft shop. I'll build them a website and host it for a year and see, if they can give me the driveshaft free. lol, hope they go for it.
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2004
09:51:59
| RE: Drivetrain Vibration
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Agreed, after chasing the problem for this long and throwing that type of cash at the problem, it's probably time to get it fixed once and for all.
$325 isn't a bad price for an aluminum shaft with new yokes, I was quoted around $300 at a couple of places for just the shaft with new U-joints in my old yokes. I called Inland Empire in So Cal about getting a new alum shaft, think it was over $400. They needed to use new yokes because the shaft needs to have the Ujoints and yokes attached so they can balance the shaft.
Even though Inland Empire is supposed to be one of the best driveshaft MFG's, I went with a local shop because vibration problems are pretty hard to diagnose over the phone. Got hosed at one local shop, the other local shop was great.
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