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Figols
Dodge Dakota
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6/26/2004
22:52:44
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 Subject: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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I have a '00 QC 4.7L automatic which now has 70K highway miles on it. I'm used to the knocking noises that have been part of life with the truck since it was new, BUT I now have a new noise to question! Everytime I start it up cold(first time of the day or after it's been sitting for a few hours)it ticks for a solid minute or so. It sounds exactly like a hydraulic lifter on a push rod engine that has bled down. Like a push rod engine hydraulic lifter, the ticking(or tapping)goes away after a minute or so(after oil pressure builds?). Is this a common problem? Could it be that one of the tappets is bleeding down? Does the 4.7L engine even have tappets that can bleed down? I do have a background in mechanics, but I don't have much knowledge of the 4.7L. Mainly because I haven't needed to learn about it. Any ideas? I hear a lot of horror stories about these engines. Thanks in advance!
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nick
Dodge Dakota
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6/27/2004
01:14:59
|  RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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Hmm, I have the same problem on the same truck. 77K QC ticks just like you're talking about. I have yet to look to deep into it but it keeps me a little worried.
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PeeDee
Dodge Dakota
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6/27/2004
09:21:53
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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I have an '02 and thought I had a problem like you describe, but then I realized that it was the solenoid for the air pump ( located on the drivers side fender well ) and that particular noise is normal. Your problem may not be this, but I thought i would mention it.
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craig2xer
Dodge Dakota
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6/29/2004
13:24:47
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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Same here. 2000 4.7L QC - kind of like a loud "chatter" for just a few seconds @ startup, and seems to stop as soon as the oil guage pops up from zero. It has done it from day one - bought used w/ 32k. Worries me to death. Mobil 1 synthetic & Mopar oil filter hasn't changed anything. Any ideas?
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nick
Dodge Dakota
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7/06/2004
03:44:26
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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Being that three of us have 00 quad cabs I wonder if this is something that dodge knows about. Is there any service techs on here that can ask around at work?
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Matt
Dodge Dakota
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7/06/2004
05:46:28
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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My '04 does this also, haven't checked into it yet though. It only happens for a few seconds though, and I don't have time for a dealer that wants to keep the truck overnight everytime I find something that I want fixed.
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dirtbikes987
Dodge Dakota
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7/06/2004
09:25:42
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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I have something similar happening to mine. I have an '00 4x4 extended cab, manual with the 4.7 and same thing, around 70K I started getting a ticking sound. Except mine is a bit different. Mine is fine at startup but after it is at temp for about 5 minutes it makes a ticking sound. Thought it was a valve but my buddy who has his own garage says that it is most likely a tensioner or guide for the timing chain. I have to do a litte more research but thats what he told me.
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craig2xer
Dodge Dakota
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7/06/2004
10:44:30
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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Called around to several dealerships in my area and described the issue. Most were - "Drop it off w/ us and we'll check into it". However, one Service tech I talked to said "That's completely normal for the magnum engine w/ over 25k". He said it takes a few seconds longer for the oil to build pressure after you get some miles on it - that it's lifter noise. I don't know about all that. If it is normal - I'd really like to hear another one that does it. I may hit a couple dealerships here and see if I can find a 4.7L w/ some miles on it and see for myself. Mine only does it @ startup - smooth & quiet after that.
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Figols
Dodge Dakota
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7/06/2004
13:40:44
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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I agree, mine only does it at start up as well. I'm interested to hear what other dealers have to say. The ones around here don't answer questions on the phone. They just want you to "drop it off". If it's a "normal" noise that will not hurt the longevity of the engine, then I can live with that. In anycase, I really can't see how this engine can last as long as my previous two chevys did(both over 200K miles w/o any trouble)with all of the odd "normal" noises that pop up as I rack up miles. It's too bad because I do really like the truck.
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craig2xer
Dodge Dakota
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7/07/2004
09:15:28
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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I love my truck. Best driving truck I've owned. Great power, great handling, extremely versitile. Definately the best "bang for your buck" - If it lasts! Can't help but be concerned - If it's making this noise @ 32k - what's it going to sound like w/ 80k? Will it make it to 80k? Will it start ticking all the time? I can't afford to be fixing stuff on it and making the payments too. I got a low milage truck so I wouldn't have to worry about fixing stuff. I guess I'll pony up the $$$ and get it checked out. At least then if something goes, I'll have a paper trail.
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figols
Dodge Dakota
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7/12/2004
10:55:52
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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OK, here is what I came up with. The 4.7L has hydraulic valve lash adjusters, which work kind of in the same way as hydraulic lifters do in a conventional center cam engine. Much like a hydraulic valve lifter, when a hydraulic valve lash adjuster starts to go bad it will bleed down with the engine off. The tapping at start up is what will happen until the lash adjuster fills back up with oil. I confirmed this by looking it up in the factory shop manual. In my case it only seems to be one that has gone bad.
In the old days you would just put some "Motor Honey" in the crank case and problem solved! When I bought my Dakota the service tech advised me not to use any oil thickening additives because the 4.7L has very small oil ports that can easily be clogged and restrict oil from reaching the bearings. I've neveer taken one apart so I can't confirm this.
In anycase, I'm going to let it go for now as long as the tapping stops after a few seconds and hopefully it won't get worse. If I do decide to keep this truck longer I may go with the HO cams and replace all of the lash adjusters at the same time. We'll see.
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Excerpt
Dodge Dakota
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7/13/2004
13:05:19
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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Figols,
Believe you are on track. Here is an excerpt from the 04 service manual for others to read.
ROCKER ARM / ADJUSTER
ASSEMBLY
DESCRIPTION
The rocker arms are steel stampings with an integral
roller bearing. The rocker arms incorporate a 2.8
mm (0.11 inch) oil hole in the lash adjuster socket for
roller and camshaft lubrication.
DIAGNOSIS AND TESTING - HYDRAULIC LASH
ADJUSTER
A tappet-like noise may be produced from several
items. Check the following items.
(1) Engine oil level too high or too low. This may
cause aerated oil to enter the adjusters and cause
them to be spongy.
(2) Insufficient running time after rebuilding cylinder
head. Low speed running up to 1 hour may be
required.
(3) Turn engine off and let set for a few minutes
before restarting. Repeat this several times after
engine has reached normal operating temperature.
(4) Low oil pressure.
(5) The oil restrictor in cylinder head gasket or the
oil passage to the cylinder head is plugged with
debris.
(6) Air ingested into oil due to broken or cracked
oil pump pick up.
(7) Worn valve guides.
(8) Rocker arm ears contacting valve spring
retainer.
(9) Rocker arm loose, adjuster stuck or at maximum
extension and still leaves lash in the system.
(10) Oil leak or excessive cam bore wear in cylinder
head.
(11) Faulty lash adjuster.
a. Check lash adjusters for sponginess while
installed in cylinder head and cam on camshaft at
base circle. Depress part of rocker arm over adjuster.
Normal adjusters should feel very firm. Spongy
adjusters can be bottomed out easily.
b. Remove suspected lash adjusters, and replace.
c. Before installation, make sure adjusters are at
least partially full of oil. This can be verified by little
or no plunger travel when lash adjuster is depressed.
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kj
Dodge Dakota
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7/17/2004
22:04:48
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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I have a 2000 Club Cab 4.7 and I first noticed the ticking at 70k when I put German Castrol Syntec 0w-30 in the truck. I just put four quarts of Mobil 1 10w-30 and two quarts of Mobil 1 15w-50 in the engine and it seems to have quieted it down. I'll try to report in a few hundred miles if it has really helped.
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craig2xer
Dodge Dakota
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7/19/2004
11:52:47
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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Based on what I'm reading here - I think I do have a faulty lash adjuster. I did the same as "kj" and switched up to slightly thicker oil. Changed to 10w-30 and it seems to have helped (less noise & shorter duration). I had been using Mobil 1 5w-30. First ~100 miles or so after the change - it was pretty much the same, but maybe it takes a while for the oil to "work in". I still get the tapping, but it seems to be intermittent now. Usually it does it every time, but this weekend I actually had a few starts w/ no noise at all. I called my dealer and the lash adjusters are $13.45 each - it has 16 of them - $224.88 for all of them. Anyone done this before? What is involved in replacing the lash adjusters?
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Richard
Dodge Dakota
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7/21/2004
01:38:26
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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Same here. 2002 QC 4X4 4.7. About 24k it started the ticking at start up and goes away a few blocks down the road. Wories me as well. Dealer ALWAYS determines as a normal noise or says they can't hear it. Funny, when I saw the service mgr flinch as it started I laughed when he said he didn't hear it. Good luck, my service dept works harder NOT to fix problems than it does to fix them right. I'm more concerned when my check engine light isn't on these days. Other than that I luv my truck.
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craig2xer
Dodge Dakota
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7/21/2004
10:27:31
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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I'm afraid to take mine to my dealer. I called the service department and asked how much it would be to replace all the hydraulic lash adjusters on a 4.7L. No joke, the guy said "The what?". I said, "the hydraulic lash adjusters". He said, "I don't know what your talking about." I kindly said, "ok, I must be referring to them incorrectly. I'll double check and call you back." Then I immediately called up parts dept. and asked them for "hydraulic lash adjusters for the 4.7L" to find out if maybe they call them something different. Parts guy knew what I was talking about, but he told me they have never replaced any lash adjusters on the 4.7L. I am hoping that is why the service tech didn't know what I was talking about. Still not too keen on the idea of dropping it off there for diagnosis/repair if I'm the first person to ever have it done there.
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Excerpt
Dodge Dakota
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7/21/2004
10:28:46
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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kj
DC recommends either 5w30 or 10w30. figols mentioned the very small oil ports. Your blend may help one faulty lash adjuster, but may create more problems down the road.
04 excerpt
The camshaft exhaust valve lobes and rocker arms
are lubricated through a small hole in the rocker
arm; oil flows through the lash adjuster then through
the rocker arm and onto the camshaft lobe. Due to
the orentation of the rocker arm, the camshaft intake
lobes are not lubed in the same manner as the
exhaust lobes. The intake lobes are lubed through
internal passages in the camshaft. Oil flows through
a bore in the number 3 camshaft bearing bore, and
as the camshaft turns, a hole in the camshaft aligns
with the hole in the camshaft bore allowing engine
oil to enter the camshaft tube. The oil then exits
through 1.6mm (0.063 in.) holes drilled into the
intake lobes, lubricating the lobes and the rocker
arms.
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beagle189
Dodge Dakota
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2/24/2008
20:37:01
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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This thread is almost like a broken record an my post is no different from the rest. I too have a 2000 4.7 Dakota Quad Cab (70k mi.) and have lifter noise at start up. It only lasts for a minute or so then goes away completely. I am concerned and interested at the cost of repair. I have only had my truck a few months (since november) and was wondering if it makes the noise as bad in the summer months? Any information is appreciated. Thanks
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olsarge
Dodge Dakota
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2/25/2008
13:09:32
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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Check for broken exhaust bolts. Leaves a small gap that let's some gas escape until warmup and expansion. Makes a ticka ticka sound.
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kj
Dodge Dakota
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2/27/2008
13:20:31
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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It's the valve lash adjusters I beleive.My 2000 4.7 CC first started doing it when I ran a batch of German Castrol Syntec 0W-30 in the engine. I changed it out and went with Mobil 1 and it was still there though not as bad. I'm not an Amsoil salesman but I'm currently running Amsoil 5w-30 and an Amsoil EAO-15 filter and the noise has either gone away or is much less noticeable. I'll try to check on my next cold start and report back.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
2/28/2008
00:04:15
| RE: 4.7L ticking @ cold start?
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As from what I've heard, the lifter tick at cold start up seems to be a common thing.
Mine actually did it today. But my truck sometimes sits for days but since it doesn;t get too cold here it rarely happens.
Yesterday at a Job I was at some guy pulled up with a newer Dodge Charger. His lifters were ticking kloud enough that i commented about it when he got out of the car. (Wanted to make sure the guy hadn't neglected the oil level, or changing it!).
He said it had a HOT cam in it, and that it also has ticked since new!
I though, MY GAWD! A car with the almight HEMI ticks that facking loud, and that's normal?
Sh*t, I'd be pissed. I mean, this wasn;t a tick at cold start up! It was over 70 degrees yesterday (In Phoenix) and he was arriving to the business, so it wasn;t a COLD START! And it was ticking so loudly, I'd be embaressed!
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