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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2004
07:14:23
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 Subject: 15W50 Synthetic
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I have always run Mobil 1 Synthetic in my vehicles I have had. I usually run 15w50 because of the warm climate I live in (Jacksonville, FL). The owner's manual doesn't even list 15W as an option. Anyone see a problem with running this weight? 10W sure seems pretty light for a hefty ole 360ci.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
5/20/2004
09:47:44
| 15W-50 - Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Jag,
The API rating of an oil is actually a translation of the technical jargon of the American Society of Testing and Materials (ASTM) and the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE). The SAE rating reflects how the oil will flow at particular temperature. A 5W-30 protects like a 5 weight oil when cold and protects like a 30 weight oil when hot. A straight 30 weight oil is not supposed to change viscosity so it will protect and flow like a 30 weight cold or hot. With the test results from the ASTM and the SAE rating, the API then rates the oil.
The "w" in the SAE rating (5w-30) doesn't mean weight like most people think. It means "winter".
We should use an oil that protects us between the temperature range we live in. Using a 5w-30 or 10w-30 oil will generally give you 1-3% better gas mileage than a 30 weight or 20-50 weight oil. Thinner is better, both for your engine and your pocketbook.
I know that putting a thinner oil in your car goes against everything you have been taught. Most of us cringe at the thought of putting a 5w-30 in our engine. First, you must understand what motor oil is supposed to do.
1. Oil is used to provide lubrication between two moving parts to reduce wear. Most internal engine tolerances are measured in thousandths of an inch and many tolerances are no thicker than a human hair.
2. Oil is used to gather or absorb heat from the internal engine parts and carry it away. If we want to flush this joint (tiny tolerance) with oil and keep a continuous stream of oil running through and over it to gather the heat generated and carry it away, would you use thick oil or thin oil?
3. Oil is also used to flush the metal particles from the bearings of your engine.
4. 90-95% of all mechanical engine wear occurs in the first 10 seconds of a cold engine start up. That initial cold start wear can equal hundreds of miles of warm engine wear. Therefore, pick a Xw- oil that corresponds with where you live and drive.
Disclaimer: There are situations that call for a thicker oil. In the event your car consumes an abnormal amount of oil between oil changes, using a thicker oil might be beneficial. A thicker oil might help you control the oil consumption ... but it is really just masking a more serious problem.
Keep in mind that almost every car manufactured since 1993 recommends a 5w-30 or a 10w-30. We must work to overcome the idea that thicker is better unless of course there is a reason. A thicker oil will cause your engine to work harder ... costing you more in fuel consumption = spending more money at the pump.
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Let's talk VISCOSITY ...
VISCOSITY ... in the general term is defined as " a fluids resistance to flow". it's a measure of the internal friction of the fluid or the resistance to the movement of one layer of molecules relative to an adjacent layer.
THE LOWER (SMALLER or FIRST #, as in "10w-_) NUMBER.. is the Cold Cranking measurement, made at low temperatures, using a concentric cylinder viscometer to predict the oils cranking resistance in an engine during cold starting.
The measuring devices, or viscosmeters, most often used are in the form of close-fitting concentric cylinders. The fluid being evaluated is placed between the cylinder walls, the outer cylinder is held stationary and the inner cylinder is rotated. The speed of rotation is measured for a given force to calculate the viscosity, most commonly reported in cp or centipoise units. Also known as Absolute Viscosity.
THE HIGHER (BIGGER or SECOND #, as in "-30") NUMBER...is commonly measured in capilary tubes, in which the time for a fixed volume of fluid to flow through the tube under gravity at operating temp (100c)is measured and reported as cSt or centistokes. This is used most commonly to report the normal operating viscosity of motor oils or the higher number.
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Viscosity:
" 0w- " is a viscosity GRADE, not a viscosity MEASUREMENT.
When testing for cold fluidity, the temperature is lowered approximately 5 degrees centigrade between each test.
The Cold Crank Simulator Apparent Viscosity is tested at:
-20 C for 10w-
-25 C fpr 5w-
-30 C for 0w-
It is my understanding that the oil has to be labelled at the lowest temperature it meets the specifications.
It may not be long before someone comes out with a " -5w-30 " which would correspond with -35 C.
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Interested in receiving a FREE Amsoil Synthetic Motor Oil & Filters Catalog ...
... click on the following link. Thank you and I hope I answered your question.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2004
11:18:07
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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What he said :)
Using a higher viscosity oil than required will not do good things for you. It takes more energy to move it around, so mileage and performance will suffer. It's harder to move around, so it puts more strain on your oil pump. If your oil pump is run off the end of the distributer shaft, all those parts will wear out sooner. When those wear out ignition timing, fuel injector timing, and valve timing get sloppy. That's never a good thing.
Take a look at what oil new high performance engines use. 5W-20 is pretty common. Winston Cup (sorry, Nextel Cup) cars are experimenting with 0W oil! 0W! What you use depends on what kind of engine you have. Modern engines with modern manufacuring techniques require us to rethink our old thoughts on oil. You've got to keep up with technology.
You need to use whatever viscosity oil will maintain appropriate oil pressure. That will vary with temperature, use, engine wear, etc, etc, etc. I use 5W-30 in my Dodge 360. I use 15W-50 in my turbocharged Harley. I also 5W-30 in my Ford 427W.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2004
12:18:11
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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Thanks for the replies, fellas. I learned alot more then I bargained for. I use 10w30 and 15w40 in all of my vehicles here at work (Vehicle Maintenance Manager). I am just aware that 10w30 is only good up to about 104 degrees. Whereas the 40 keeps going...
It is amazing what oils can do these days. I know some of the new BMWs are coming with 0w40 in the crankcase.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2004
19:21:05
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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Well I bought the new Mobil 1 5w40 oil. I feel so uneasy about this too! I wonder how my pump pressure will be? Why does it seem so wrong to put this pissy stuff in my engine?
Amsoil guy? What do you think? R/T Dakota with 100k miles...well maintained...here goes nothing.
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Amsoil_Said_
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2004
20:55:24
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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Thinner is better, both for your engine and your pocketbook.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2004
22:17:35
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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I just changed my oil this afternoon, odometer is at 55,000 miles. I used Mobile 1 5W-30 with a Purolater Pro-1 filter. Oil pressure is right where it should be. Unless it's really hot, or you haul a heavy load, 40 might be a tad heavier than you need. But go ahead and use it and don't sweat it.
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2004
09:05:47
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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Well...things look good. Oil pressure actually seems to improved. HP is up 95 at the rear wheels....okay...so maybe not.
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Greg
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2004
22:09:12
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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I don't mean to butt in with worthless info here, but maybe some will take it to be not so worthless...
Like the Amsoil man said the W in "0w, 5w, 10w-30" actually stands for winter... Infact if you go back long enough you may find some oils listed as this "10w-30s" which actually means 10 weight while cold then 30 weight while hot or "w = winter & s = summer"...
Now I've been a small engine mechanic for about 9 years and most of the time engines that come in that the connecting rods had broke in were do to using to heavy of an oil, like 10w - 40, and this caused the engine to actually run hotter which then caused the oil to sludge up far worse than the 30w ever would have... This is why most small engine companies such as briggs, kohler, honda, and so on will void warranty if you do not use the correct oil weight in their engines... AND these engines weren't minorly sludged either, they were internally coated... With blue spots on all of the metal wear-bearing surfaces... Not good at all I know...
But again, some of yall make take this as useless, because you think that just because it's a mower or tractor engine it won't apply to your truck engine... Just thought I would just point that out is all... Hope some of you will take it as good advise, but if it works go with it :))
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
5/25/2004
06:58:54
|  Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com = Amzoil
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Additional information to clarify my earlier post, talk again about viscosity, and to help you decide your oil weight.
The first number, preceding the "w" (for Winter), is an oil’s viscosity grade, is an indication of low-temperature performance -- the lower the better. The lower winter viscosity grades will be more valuable in colder climates. 10w- generally flows and pumps fine at four degrees below zero on the Fahrenheit scale, and each grade below that buys you another nine degrees.
For the record --- Synthetic oil is vastly superior to conventional oil in its low-temperature pumpability, high-temperature stability, long-drain capability, and high lubricity (low friction).
The second number represents the oil’s high-temperature viscosity, but higher is not always better! One wants to choose the minimum viscosity that results in an oil film thick enough to prevent wear at the temperatures one expects to encounter. Only the engineers that designed the engine know what viscosity is required to provide adequate film thickness without unnecessary friction, so you should certainly try to remain within manufacturers guidelines.
Caution
It is almost certain that higher viscosity oils, such as Xw-40 and Xw-50, are complete wastes of energy, placing undue strain on your engine, and raising operating temperatures for no real benefit.
I hope this helps!
Click below if you are interested in receiving a FREE Amsoil Catalog.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Steve R
Dodge Dakota
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5/25/2004
10:56:39
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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What about the new m3 the only oil you can use is a 10w60 castroil tws motorsport. Or on Jags the only oil you can use and still have a warranty is 20w50. These are the cars that last hundreds of thousands of miles without problems. I think a thicker oil has alot to do with that. More protection of moving parts plus more oil pressure.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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5/25/2004
11:11:23
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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Steve, if you drive one of those cars, then use that type of oil. Otherwise, don't. What applies to one exotic engine/car does not apply to your Dakota.
I'll stick to Mobile 1 5W-30 for my Dakota, and continue to recommend it.
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Steve R
Dodge Dakota
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5/25/2004
11:26:59
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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WhatI am saying is that a thinner oil is recomended for better fuel economy. The Dodge dealer does not care how many miles you get out of your motor as long as it is over 70k (warranty) but they do have to meet epa guidlines for fuel economy. So what you get in better fuel economy you lose in protection of your engine. I am an L1 certified technician and all i run in my cars are 15w50 mobil 1. I have run it in my 91 syclone with no problems 147k. My 86 buick Grand national with no problems 167k and in my Durango.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
5/25/2004
11:54:20
| Amsoil 15w-40 = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Special situations.
Per my above comment, "... the engineers that designed the engine know what viscosity is required to provide adequate film thickness without unnecessary friction, so you should certainly try to remain within manufacturers guidelines."
Heavier Wt. for Racing Applications
For racing applications a heavier wt. oil is recommended. However, and IMHO, outside of racing and "special situations" there are very very few engines that truly need a 15w-50 oil. For the record, I believe that top-fuel dragsters use a straight 70 wt. oil.
If you want to use a heavier wt. oil, I would recommend nothing heavier than 15w-40. Amsoil sells a lot of 15w-40 oil for most heavy duty applications.
Summer Is Upon Us and Heavier Wt. Oils
Amsoil 15w-40 would be a viable oil in the hottest climates. If you live in a geographic location where temperatures remain in in the 100's more often than not, then a 15w-40 wt. oil may be a good choice, especially if you are driving 70-90 MPH on the highway and then stop and go driving once you enter the city limits. Those conditions are HARD on lighter wt. oils.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Jag
Dodge Dakota
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5/25/2004
16:23:17
| RE: 15W50 Synthetic
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I want this motor to last. I still feel inclinded to go back to a 15w40. Although...if I understand these numbers right. My Mobil 5w40 should offer the exact same protection at the 15w40. If that is the case...then who would want to use a 15w40 when a 5w40 can handle the same heat.
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