Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi

Subject: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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I have a1999 dakota 4x4 5.2L Magnum V8. Would like to know the advandages and disadvantages to installing cooler plugs and thermostat. Thinking of installing autolite 3923s and 180 thermo.
I'm not a racer,just wondering if running cooler engine is better for life of engine?

ScojoDak
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
12:09:54

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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A colder air/fuel charge equals more HP. It also helps eliminate hot pockets of coolant in the combustion chamber that can lead to pinging.

Sephiroth
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
13:08:52

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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Ditch the el-cheapo Autolites. I cooled my engine with the following changes.

1) Bosch Platinum 4 Plugs
2) Flushed green coolant, switched to orange/red
3) Dropped in a 180deg thermo
4) Switched to synthetic oil (AMSOIL for me)
5) Got a K&N air-filter, soon to be an AMS foam

Where my truck ('95 5.2L V8 4x4 CC) used to run at 220-230deg, it now runs around 190deg average. Much cooler.

Timberwolf
GenIII

3/19/2004
14:14:52

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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Keep this in mind, your engine needs to run at the propert operating temperature, especially in the winter, to evaporate condensation that forms inside. If you cool it too much, this condensation will contaminate your oil. There is a delicate balance here.

.boB
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
15:47:59

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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As Timberwolf said, it's a delicate balance. There are definate power advantages to having a cooler air mixture. The key here is cooler air intake charge. Not colder coolant temps. I have yet to see any proof that a lower coolant temp on an essentially stock truck actually improves on road performance or efficiency. It may be true, but I havn't seen it, and I kind of doubt it.

As for engine wear, there is a lot of proof that colder engine temps increase cylinder wall wear. Wear increases exponentially with every decrease in engine temp. That's a bad thing.

Personally, I'm not willing to trade increased wear for dubious gain.

Crazy8
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
17:12:09

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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The way i see it is if your truck is running fine why change it.The engineers that designed these motors should know more about it than a shadetree mechanic or a weekend racer.As for me, I'll leave mine stock and spend my money on something enjoyable.

gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
20:59:30

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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No no, ScoJo. A cooler air/fuel mixture does not carry enough influence to effectively deal with "hot pocketing" of the coolant in the heads. At best, you're looking at a fractional effect. Consider the factors. 80 degree air, 200 degree coolant, 200 degree oil, and the huge heat sink of the dense steel engine block/heads. 70 degree fuel sprayed at the intake valve. This problem is best addressed with a cooler thermostat and, if necessary, a hi-flow water pump.

Crazy8
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
22:36:16

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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See, I tried to tell you don't listen to mechanic wantabes. KEEP IT STOCK!!!!!

tc
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2004
23:50:35

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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Hey .boB,
I don't really agree with lowering engine temp.(for other reasons other than these here), but
I would like to know what proof you are talking about because I think that Newton and Maxwell might disagree with you.

Sephiroth
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2004
01:08:15

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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Wolf, I've got mine SUPER cool, and as far as I know, have no water in my oil system. Any easy way to find out, shy of draining it? I ran all winter with snow and ice everywhere but heard no unusual noises from my engine. I run my engine around 190deg average, though it can get as high as 195~200deg in summer, sitting still for extended periods with the AC blasting.

.boB
Dodge Dakota
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3/20/2004
12:56:53

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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Newton, Maxwell, and Boyle would all agree (as would you and I), that a cooler air charge will be denser. We know that denser air makes more power. No question about that.

But here's the question. If you lower the coolant temp by 15*, will you make an essentially stock motor more powerfull or more efficient? I have yet to see any proof that this is true. If you know of any, I sure would like to see it.

However, there is plenty of data to show that lowering the temps increases cylinder wall wear. I'm not willing to trade the increased wear for unproven power gains.

or
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2004
11:23:10

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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Part of the reasoning behind higher operating temps in modern (Magnum) engines is the need for low tension piston rings to increase efficiency. A higher coolant/operating temp is needed to ensure the rings seal properly. Another part of the reasoning is for lower emisions, higher temps provide more thorough combustion.
maybe...

lacent
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2004
14:08:56

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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actually engines of yesteryear like carburated motors and what not benefited from cooler operating temps, but todays engines actually need a little higher temp for the best efficiency, it improves combustion, and makes for less wear and carbon build up, however, thats not to say that it should be running at 250, 195-210 is typically the best range, the range that your truck is already designed to run at, too cold of a temp can cause post ignition, improper oil flow, and all sorts of other nastys that can have a negative effect on your engine

gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2004
16:17:09

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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lacent? If what you say is true, and only carb-style induction runs better with cooler charges, why do Dodge trucks from the 80's...carbureted Dodge trucks, have 193 degree thermostats? The hotter thermostat is related to emissions, simple as that. What has already been said here remains true. Cooler air is more dense and, to a point, makes more power. I say, to a point, because if it's too cool performance suffers. What is maddening here is the mixing of systems. The thermostat has very little influence over the air temp of the intake charge. Yes, the intake manifold will transfer some heat from the engine to the air in the tract, but we're talking such a miniscule difference between an engine running either thermostat, it could barely be noted. The whole point of running a cooler thermostat is to alleviate coolant system hot spots, thus avoiding pre-ignition from excessive temperatures. Keeping the cylinder head temps down allows full ignition advance for a given setup without pinging. Pinging happens even when you can't hear it, and effeciency tanks when this is happening. Engines of yesteryear. Really.

lacent
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2004
18:17:49

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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i think perhaps you took me wrong, i wasnt speaking of the intake charge, in that instance cooler is better, thus the reason for "cool-air intakes" and all of the hoopla that comes with them, but what i am talking about is your cooling system temps, if your temps arnt high enough you get the opposite effect of when they are too hot, ie. post ignition

the mans question was if cooler temps were better for the life of the engine, simple answer is NO, they arnt, are they better in SOME cases for more power? yes

as you mentioned keeping the heads cool is a good idea, i agree fully, however, thats where it stops. there is no real need to put in a 180 thermo unless you want decreased power and gas mileage

now i am not stating this for ALL engines just the dodge truck engines, cause some work well at 180, just not the 318

gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2004
20:58:12

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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Problem is, the computers are tuned for best power at 182 degrees. Also, the wear curve doesn't show any appreciable upswing til more like 160 degrees or lower. Moly-coated rings (and the improved lubrication that results) have much more influence over upper cylinder wear than a 10-15 degree drop in thermostat setting.
Finally, that's all I'm saying on this one. It's on the way to becoming a shouting match over "tastes great, less filling."

unknown
Dodge Dakota
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3/21/2004
21:09:39

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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lmao this message board is too much , cam here hoping to get some good info maybe see things or other mods that i don't know about , i have read more than enough of these topics to have come to the decision that there is no intelligent life forms here , people looking for GOOD advice on problems they are having and no one here seems to have a clue , it's like watchin one idiot trying to tell another idiot how to do something even he doesn't have a clue about . reading this particular message post , well it's like watching the three stooges show where they all stand around and argue about something they really have absolutely no clue about , one person who thinks they have a clue , and everyone standing around slapping and gouging the others eyes out i mean come on really guys , i expected much more from these message boards and expected to find actual facts here, but once again i was left here alone apparently . For those of you who actually believe that your vehicle cam from the factory to work the way the designed it to and that's the only way for it to work properly at a set fuel , timing , coolant temp , and so forth - well your sadly mistaken . what most people will never realize is that rules of computers can be broken on todays fuel injection if done properly and that yes all of these mods can be a blessing but only if they are used properly and everything is working hand in hand together . you know i could go on and on all night how making one modification will effect the rest and if the other modifications aren't made you won't see the difference you expected from from the one single change , will lowering you thermostat make a difference with a stock engine yes possibly , will it make a difference with the cooler air proper engine timing and fuel delivery along with a number of other things YES absolutely . but then again i am apparently dealing with all the weekend warriors and back yard shade tree mechanics who know all seen all and can do all . these message boards could be and mean so much more if people who were actually writing their recomendations actually had a clue - not the guy headed out next weekend relocating his air intake sensor to acheive a cooler air temperature and driving it and acusing everyone else of lying about the performance gains or claiming it did nothing without properly researching the other mods that would need to be changed in order for this one single mod to be worth while . well anyways i guess i said about a 1/4 of my peace here and it is certainly time to move on to find more intelligent life forms . have fun enjoy the show here . mopar fan for life

Sephiroth
Dodge Dakota
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3/22/2004
00:14:54

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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Unknown, I now know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are a child. Probably some dumbass teen trying to find a fix for his truck that he probably fubarred when trying to make it faster. You use no capitalization or punctuation in your reply, which further indicates an age probably even pre-teen. Heck, even when I was on IRC back when I was a teen, I could write a full reply in proper English in the same time most dumb kids could type a slop of words. So how about not comming back until you're an adult.

As for the actual thread, I did research before I threw in the cooler thermostat. The AVERAGE peak operating temperature is around 190deg. In some engines it is higher, and lower in yet others. With my 180deg thermostat my truck gets about 190deg in winter, and about 195-200deg in summer. This has not damaged my engine in a year of running it this way. There's no oil-burning due to cylinder-wear, and I've lost no horses. I also have not heard any pinging from my engine the whole time I've owned it, before and after the swap.

Now, while doing my research on lowering my temperature, I found out that what I've done is fine and won't (shouldn't) damage anything. However, the reason people drop to a 160deg thermo is for the power gains. It wears an engine fast, but since the computer thinks your engine is still cold, it throws extra fuel to the cylinders to warm up the engine, which also imcreases power. If you're using your truck just for racing and don't mind the wear, this is great. I want to pass my truck on to some children one day though!

Timberwolf
GenIII

3/23/2004
13:32:58

RE: Run cooler or hotter, that is the questi
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Unknown: The purpose of this board is to learn and help others learn about Dakota trucks. If I am wrong about something, I expect someone to let me know not only where my error is, but to provide me with the correct solution. Just saying we don't know anything is easy to do, but you hold no credibility until you point out why we are wrong and describe the proper procedure. If you are in fact that knowledgeable, your input in these forums would be greatly appreciated. So, please tell us what your solution is to the original post, not call those that are trying to help idiots. Also, find a screen name and stick to it. I doubt you are posting as unknown in all your posts. This is another key to developing credibility. Without creditibility, you're going to come off as just another schmuck with an attitude.

P 1

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