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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2004
15:33:48
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 Subject: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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Why no superchips/hypertech for 4.7, this engine has certainly been out long enough so as to not be excused by being new, and don't tell me to get a flash cause i want my own programmer. What's the deal anyone know?
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Daksmack
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2004
15:40:25
|  RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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Well, mopars hipo pcm got shelved cause they couldnt get it to pass emissions.
Lynn has a 4.7 5spd with a pcm flash from Kenny Bell. Same place that makes a blower kit for 4.7's. He swares by it. Although, they recommend using high octane fuel due to the timing increase. They can also raise rev limiters and speed limiters, unless you have an aluminum driveshaft.
You can get info from KRCperformance.com.
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2004
19:57:16
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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thanks but i'm well aware of the available flashes, i would much prefer a programmer so i could use lower octane, not worry about dealer flashing over the custom flash, return to stock when need be, etc, etc. Again, does anyone have an explanation while the 4.7 is one of the very few truck/suv engines on the market with no power programmer?
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Waltherone
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2004
20:41:24
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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Probly the same reason no one makes aftermarket converters for my auto tranny 4.7, no modded valve bodies, no shift kits, Hotchkis doesn't make coils for it like they did for the "old v8"(read: heavier) and v6 applications, same reason vortech, ATI, and powerdyne don't yet have kits for the 4.7.
They see no market for it.
It sucks when you aren't even THAT heavily modded, and you have run out of N/A things to do short of porting the heads and creating your own parts (*cough* Lynn's longtubes *cough*)
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Pittdawg
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2004
21:54:53
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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Well, wtf will make them see a market? This engine spans DC's vehicle lines including: dakota, jeep grand cherokee, durango, ram and probably another vehicle i can't think of right now, i can't imagine there isnt a market for this engine. There is a market for every other heavily utilized engine, why not this one. I'm bewildered, is there something else unique to this engine that makes aftermarket companies weary to produce products? I just don't get it.
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Waltherone
Dodge Dakota
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1/27/2004
22:24:15
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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Well, must consider the 5.9/5.2 were in service for what, like 27 years? 4.7L has been here for three. Give it time. 10 years from now, I think we'll see plenty of low 13 N/A 4.7's. It's bound to happen...Mopar Performance can't support the 5.9 and 5.2 by themselves, they've got to start supporting their own engines some day. When they do, more parts will flow in.
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R/TBlues
Dodge Dakota
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1/28/2004
00:32:47
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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That's why I'm back to the good old R/T. I had a 2002slt 4.7L. It didn't take me long to figure out that there ain't going to be any aftermarket goodies for this engine. When I can't find anymore low mileage 5.2L and 5.9L daks to buy up, I'll change to Ford or Chevy.
Market? How can you say there's no market? Back in 1993 Toyota trucks were out selling Dodge trucks. Yet, there were parts available for the 1 year old 5.2L Magnum Engine. By 1995, Dodge had packaged together an off the shelf R/T kit for around $3,000.00 you could bolt on to a 5.2L Dakota. It was estimated around 300hp. Now the Ram is the #3 best selling vehicle in the U.S. It sold nearly 500,000 Rams last year alone. The 4.7L engine was in 90% of those Rams. Now count all the Dakotas, Durangos, and Cherokees sold with the 4.7L engine since 1999 and you have a tremendous untapped market just waiting to be had. Any aftermarket manufactures out there reading this, WAKE UP! Make us performance parts! We will buy them! It's a conspiracy! Chevy is behind all this, I just know it!
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Waltherone
Dodge Dakota
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1/28/2004
20:23:37
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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It's not just about how many are on the road. The average suburban father driving a dakota probably isn't going to go out and buy a power programmer.
Look at the number of 4.7's that people seriously try to race with, the number is pretty small.
Parts are available, just not many PERFORMANCE parts.
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R/TBlues
Dodge Dakota
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1/28/2004
20:38:51
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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The number of people racing these things is small because there are no performance parts for them. Are you going to race a car you can't modify?
During the 92-96 era, the average age of a Dakota owner was about 55. Those trucks had no appeal to the younger crowd. Yet, there were performance parts available.
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Waltherone
Dodge Dakota
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1/28/2004
21:09:42
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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Well, I dunno then.
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fastdak
Dodge Dakota
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1/28/2004
23:18:46
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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last i heard it will still be months before hypertech or superchips have anything.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
1/28/2004
23:34:10
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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I'd like to see DC make a RWD car (other than the Viper or Prowler!) that could be equipped with the 4.7 H.O. They should make a NEW Charger or something and damn it, make it RWD again!
As sweet as my 4.7 Dak sounds with the Flowmaster exhaust I think a resonable priced RWD car could be in the same market as the Ford Mustang.
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Joe
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2004
10:37:33
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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Go to Hypertech's web site and make a request for the 4.7 programmer. If there is enough demand, they will supply.
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Brians_DAK
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2004
03:00:50
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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They Hypertech is trash anyway. Why would you want to waste your money on it? You should find a company that can flash the computer. I know of a couple that deal with F-body's, they might know how to get something in on our computers. PCMFORLESS is the name of the company. You get better results by programing on a chassis dyno anyway. I had the Hypertech for my Trans am and the only difference was is that it drank more gas. Its a waste of money IMHO The only benefit it has is being able to change gear ratios and tire height calculations. Maybe the top end speed limiter?? But let me ask you how often you change tire size and gearing? I have a 4x4 so top end is of no use to me and I can re-gear my truck once when I need to, that's bout it. I do agree there needs to be a lil more after market support, but I have been able to find exhaust cam's, headers ect, what else are you looking for? Worst case scenario you can make your own headers, not too hard. After all the normal bolt on junk you have to go internal and Im sure there is plenty out there for that. Porting your heads yourself is easy enough with some practice, but only really yields high rpm gain, and again I am a 4x4 so no use to me. The true hot rodder doesn't need the parts made and stamped out for him, he makes parts he wants fit his application. To make these engines perform better than they do from the factory you had better know your stuff, you trying to upgrade on something engineers have spent a lot of time and money testing.
~Brian
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Ian
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2004
04:03:29
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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Brian your a jackass...all we are talking bout is a freakin power programmer not a complete rebuild job. Furthermore, no vehicle comes from the "engineers" programmed for its highest performance, they have warranty issues, idle issues, this that blah blah blah, designed for your average driver not a performance enthusiast, anyways i'm not trying to design my own headers i just want a friggin programmer like every other truck engine on the market has.
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JES
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2004
12:45:29
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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AMAN IAN!!!!! I second and third that sentiment.
Eric - http://photos.yahoo.com/jes_96
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Brians_DAK
Dodge Dakota
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1/31/2004
14:04:24
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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As in the engines have had lots of time and money spent in them and were designed by a team of engineers. Idle problems? I havn't any? As for the programmer, I know thats what the post was about, I was also addressing the aftermarket issue as well. If this is how dodge people are I am going to be ashamed to own one. And once again, the power prgrammers are worthless unless you change your gearing often. You actually believe that a "POWER PROGRAMER" is going to fix your friggen idle problem?? Do some research and figure it out, dollars to donuts says its your throttle positioning sensor. You can have the computer done for cheeper by someone who has the ability to flash the pcm, and you will yield better a HP result . IE Pcmforless.
~Brian
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Joe
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2004
00:44:55
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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What good is a flash if your dealer resets it at every oil change? I like that Hypertech allows you to go back to stock whenever you want. Flashes don't allow you to do that. I don't want to burn 93 octane all the time, getting 10-12 mpg. And if all the programmers do is adjsut for new tire sizes, then how can their dyno sheets show results?
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Brians_DAK
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2004
04:40:44
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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Well, what their dyno sheets tell you and what I have personally felt and seen at the track are two totally different things. Its almost like the tornado, it'll get your better gas mileage according to their paper work, and more horsepower too! But its still a joke I just feel its over rated, my 02. From what I have seen and experienced I have found the programmers to be a waste of money. All they do is fatten up the mix so your computer can dial in some more timing. With the proper fuel curve and timing your car shouldn't get crappy gas mileage. If the computer is optimized to the specific modifications your vehicle has then it should be able to make the most out of what you have done to it, yielding in more power and more efficiency. As for the dealer reprogramming it at every oil change.... I have never ever had the dealer do and oil change to my vehicle, so I wouldn't know about this.
~Brian
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2004
09:41:45
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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I'm not trying to take sides here, but I'm with Brian on this last comment.
Joe, your dealer actually hooks up and flashes your computer at every oil change? Your dealer does your oil changes? You do know you can keep your warranty intact, and do them yourself, right?
When my truck was in for a manual tranny warranty issue, and the water on the floorboard issue, bot h of which they fixed, I told them my truck idled and ran fine, and the reason why, that in no way did I want them to update my 01 PCM on my 4.7, and they didn't.
They also have to put a little sticker on it every time that they do.
Back to the programmer, for a manual driver like me, the only reason I got the 4.7 anyway, cause it came with a manual, if you can change/advance the timing, then it would be worth something.
It'd be worth alot more, to the average auto tranny guy, that has the dreaded 'death flash'!
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chesster51
Dodge Dakota
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2/01/2004
10:17:49
| RE: ARRGH, wheres the 4.7 programmer!
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Brian, sounds to me like your trans am wasn't properly tuned on a dyno to get optimum results. Just because you buy a programmer and make some adjustments in your driveway and it doesn't yield the results your looking for doesn't mean it's trash. In the hands of an experience tuner, and on a dyno, a programmer can make all the adjustments that a PCM flash can make. These adjustments can also be tailored to that exact combination of engine mods instead of a set of adjustments made by the maker of the flash that can only design his product to improve a completely stock application. Without having that exact vehicle on a dyno, how can the flash manufacturer create the optimum values for it if it already has a combination of engine mods applied to it? Seems like he would have to test about 20 different combinations and thus have 20 different flashes for the same engine. Can't see that happening. My 02.
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