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V8 Dakotas
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DakSludge
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2004
16:13:40
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 Subject: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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I have a 00 dak with the 4.7 and 75k miles. I change the oil regularly, about every 2500-3500 miles. About 1 yr ago, my oil pressure starting doing a dance on the dashboard. After doing some reading about the sludge these engines create, I decided to flush the motor a few times and change the oil with every flush (of course) during the coarse of a week. Oil pressure came back and was holding steady.
Here it is a year later, and the dance is back. I have flushed the engine several times and oil pressure is still off and on. I know this is not a faulty gauge or sender cause the valvetrain starts raising hell if it stays low too long. When it does decide to stick around (the oil pressure), its at 30 psi no matter where the pedal is. I clearly remember the gauge reading 60+ at ALL times when I first purchased the truck new. I guess my next step is to pull the oil pan and check out the pick up tube.
My questions are....
Are the dak 4.7 owners that are using synthetic having similar problems with sludge?
Would a different viscosity affect the effect of this sludge? I current use 10w40 and live in Pensacola, FL where the climate is temperate (relatively speaking...er writing)
How about oil additives?
After market pickup tube?
Any suggestions from the dak owners that have won the sludge batter are greatly appriciated!!
PS, yes I too have the milky sludge in the oil fill.
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jeremiah2360
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2004
18:46:56
|  RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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The oil pan removal looks to be a nightmare in the factory service manual. I can`t believe what it involves, like raising the motor , removal of front axle on a 4x4,draining anti-freeze fluid ,fan shroud,intake manifold,structural dust cover...are they kidding!
03 qc 4.7 auto 4x4 24k
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/14/2004
21:54:48
|  RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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See if there is some kind of flush that you can dump into the engine that will eat the deposits. Drain the oil, change filter and add a quart or two of the flush to the engine so the pickup tube is covered, don't add any oil and DON"T START THE ENGINE. Just leave it sit for a day, so the flush can eat at the sludge on the screen of the pickup tube.
Next day top it off with oil and run it for 30 min to 1 hour while checking the oil pressure, make sure it doesn't drop off or you'll cook the engine. Drain the oil, change the filter and see if the pressure stays steady. Hopefully the engine flush soaking on the pickup tube will eat the deposits away.
I have 114K on my 4.7 00 Dak and the oil pressure is at 20-30 PSI at idle and 60-80 PSI at 2-3K RPM. I bought it used with 60K and god knows what the previous owner put in it for oil or how ofter it was changed. It used about 1/2 qt every 3k and I switched to Mobil 1. The Mobil 1 stopped the oil consumption and the truck doesn't use oil any more. I guess there was probably a piston with stuck oil rings causing the oil consumption and the Mobil 1 freed the oil rings, just my best guess.
Milkshake in the filler tube shouldn't be a problem as most daks have the condensation build up in the filler tube. blame it on Dodge's poor design of the plastic filler tube.
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hmmmm
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
04:35:01
| RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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Try AutoRX.
Also do you take alot of short trips where the engine never gets a chance to get really heat soaked? If most of your driving is in town for 20 minutes or less than sludging can be a problem. Even though you're in a temperate climate, you still get cold at night (42F yesterday @ 6:00AM) and you still get condensation inside the crankcase.
What have you been flushing with? Depending on the makeup of the flush, you may actually be making the problem worse instead of better. Some of the contents may be hygroscopic and may be making the sludging worse.
That's all I have. Hope it helps.
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DakSludge
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
10:04:35
| RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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Thanks very much for the input. I will try the engine flush overnight suggestion and will let you know how it works. I wont be able to do it till this weekend though cause this is my daily driver. My work is only 20 min away, but the engine is at full temp by the time it gets shut off. I cant remember off hand what engine flush I am using. It comes in quart sizes in a grey plastic jug resembling an quart size oil container. It reeks of diesel fuel, so I suppose that is basically what it is. Would it be better to use straight diesel fuel instead of motor flush? Or perhaps you have a suggestion for a specific brand of flush?
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DakSludge
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
10:09:21
| RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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Oh yeah... What about synthetics? Would they hinder the sludge forming habits of this engine?
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
13:48:05
|  RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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Good thing you're doing something about it, I read 2000 owner horror stories of the 4.7 seizing on them, as a result of what you say.
Don't know why, (knocks on wood), I too live in a warm climate, and run Mobil 1, and change every 5-7K, and have NEVER had the sludge, NOT EVEN UNDER THE BALLFE, they put in the 2001's.
I think Mobil 1, or any other good REAL FULL SYNTHETIC would help some. Be careful, many oils can legally put synthetic on the label, and are just dino oils in reality. The AMSOIL guy will chime in any time now.
2001 4.7
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Jim
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
15:18:41
| RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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I too had the sluge in the filler tube and started using Mobile One and it went away.
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RealTruth
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
15:19:37
| RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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Have noticed something similar with the Oil pressure guage on a 97 Dak 5.2 80+k - always had the pressure stay constent, but notice awhile back it dropping down when at idle and going back to normal at driving speed. Just changed the oil the other day (put Valv Max life 10-40 and a Fram PH 16 - what I used since it was new) back on - use Walmart SuperTech for a couple of changes due to not having any $$ - pressure seems to be consistent again - but not as high as I remember it. Could it be sludge?
Would changing over to a synthetic (Mobil 1) after flushing hurt anything??
Thanks
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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1/15/2004
22:09:59
| RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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Nah, flush the engine and put in the Mobil 1 with a good filter. Might want to flush the engine with a new filter, then put in some el'cheapo oil with a new filter for a day or couple of hours to scrub off the residual funky stuff, then put in the Mobil 1 with a new filter.
I did this because I couldn't bear to see all that Mobil 1 being contaminated by the residual dirty oil in the engine. What the heck, it's $10 for a cheap fram filter and WalMart SuperTech oil for the flush or $40 for a good filter and the Mobil 1 with contaminated dino mixed in.
The "true" synthetics, Mobil 1 and Amsoil, do prevent sludge since they don't break down like the dino stuff. Ever seen a Quakerstate engine, Fn block of sludge with some pistons slinging through it.
On what flush to use, I think Berrymans Chemtool, stuff you add to fuel to clean injectors and carbs, can be used as an engine flush if my memory serves me right. Read the can and see if it can be used as an engine flush, this stuff should eat the heck out of the sludge. Please read the can though, wouldn't want to be blamed for it eating through your intake or something.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
1/16/2004
10:57:50
|  Amsoil : sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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Let's put to bed some of the objections you will hear concerning the use of synthetic engine lubricants (some are old debates ... some are new):
Note Specifically: Myth #5: Synthetic lubricants produce sludge
__________________________________________________
Myth #1: Synthetic motor oils damage seals
Untrue. It would be foolhardy for lubricant manufacturers to build a product that is incompatible with seals. The composition of seals presents problems that both petroleum oils and synthetics must overcome. Made from elastomers, seals are inherently difficult to standardize. Ultimately it is the additive mix in the oil that counts. Additives to control seal swell, shrinkage and hardening are required, whether it be a synthetic or petroleum product that is being produced.
Myth #2: Synthetics are too thin to stay in the engine
Untrue. In order for a lubricant to be classified in any SAE grade (10W-30, 10W-40, etc) it has to meet certain guidelines with regard to viscosity ("thickness"). For example, it makes no difference whether it is 10W-40 petroleum or 10W-40 synthetic, at -25 degrees centigrade (-13F) and 100 degrees centigrade (212 degrees F) that oil has to maintain a standardized viscosity or it can't be rated a 10W-40.
Myth #3: Synthetics cause cars to use more oil
Untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended to use in mechanically sound engines, that is, engines that don't leak. In such engines oil consumption will actually be reduced. First, because of the lower volatility of synlubes. Second, because of the better sealing characteristics between piston rings and cylinder walls. And finally, because of the superior oxidation stability (i.e. resistance of synthetics against reacting with oxygen at high temperatures.)
Myth #4: Synthetic lubricants are not compatible with petroleum
Untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials that form the base stocks of high quality name brand synthetics are fully compatible with petroleum oils. In the old days, some companies used untested ingredients that were not compatible, causing quality synthetic lubricants to suffer a bad reputation. Fortunately, those days are long gone. Compatibility is something to keep in mind, however, whether using petroleum oils or synthetics. It is usually best to use the same oil for topping off that you have been running in the engine. That is, it is preferable to not mix your oils, even if it is Valvoline or Quaker State you are using. The reason is this: the functions of additives blended for specific characteristics can be offset when oils with different additive packages are put together. For optimal performance, it is better to use the same oil throughout.
Myth #5: Synthetic lubricants produce sludge
Untrue. In point of fact, synthetic motor oils are more sludge resistant than their petroleum counterparts, resisting the effects of high temperatures and oxidation. In the presence of high temperatures, two things happen. First, an oil's lighter ingredients boil off, making the oil thicker. Second, many of the complex chemicals found naturally in petroleum base stocks begin to react with each other, forming sludge, gums and varnishes. One result is a loss of fluidity at low temperatures, slowing the timely flow of oil to the engine for vital engine protection. Further negative effects of thickened oil include the restriction of oil flow to critical areas, greater wear and loss of fuel economy. Because of their higher flash points, and their ability to withstand evaporation loss and oxidation, synthetics are much more resistant to sludge development.
Myth #6: Synthetics can't be used with catalytic converters or oxygen sensors
Untrue. In fact the very low ash content of synthetics will extend the life of every exhaust system component.
Myth #7: Synthetics void warranties
Untrue. No major manufacturer of automobiles specifically bans the use of synthetic lubricants. In point of fact, increasing numbers of high performance cars are arriving on the showroom floors with synthetic motor oils as factory fill. Which may not make the dealers too happy since oil changes usually lead to other service work.
Myth #8: Synthetics last forever
Untrue. Although some experts feel that synthetic base stocks themselves can be used forever, it is well known that eventually the additives will falter and cause the oil to require changing. However, by "topping off", additives can be replenished. Through good filtration and periodic oil analysis, synthetic motor oils protect an engine for lengths of time far beyond the capability of non synthetics. Amsoil's unique additives packages allow for extended drain intervals.
Myth #9: Synthetics are too expensive
Untrue. Tests and experience have proven that synthetics can greatly extend drain intervals, provide better fuel economy, reduce engine wear and enable vehicles to operate with greater reliability. All these elements combine to make synthetic engine lubricants more economical than conventional non synthetics. In Europe, synthetics have enjoyed increasing acceptance as car buyers look first to performance and long term value rather than initial price. As more sophisticated technology places greater demands on today's motor oils, we will no doubt see an increasing re-evaluation of oil buying habits in this country as well.
There are other MYTHS and non-truths circulating the forums, garages, and race tracks. The nine above are just a few that I wanted to address.
Conclusions
Since their inception, manufacturers of synthetic motor oils have sought to educate the public about the facts regarding synthetics, and the need for consumers to make their lubrication purchasing decisions based on quality rather than price. As was the case with microwave ovens or electric lights, a highly technological improvement must often overcome a fair amount of public skepticism and consumer inertia before it is embraced by the general population. But the word has been getting out as a growing number of motorists worldwide experience the benefits of synthetic lubrication. The wave of the future, in automobile lubrication, is here, and Amsoil has lead the march, recently celebrating their 30th year in business. For the environmental enthusiasts, the use of synthetics could reduce waste oil disposal by 80%, so if environment is your thing, then synthetic lubricants should be your choice.
--------------------------------------------------
Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link:
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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DakSludge
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2004
21:47:40
| RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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Just an update. The overnight soaking didnt help. The dodge mechanic said I was an idiot for doing that because all the sludge that was broken up was now circluating throughout the motor. I had them do a high pressure engine flush (with their "$200,000 flushing machine"...whatever) and now the motor seems to be holding pressure. If some of you out there are having similar oil pressure problems, I would suggest getting this professional engine flush done by the dealer or a competant mechanic shop that has a similar machine. It cost me $189 and another 40 for a new sending unit.
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helpdak
Dodge Dakota
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1/30/2004
22:36:10
| RE: Sludge, synthetics, and pick up tubes
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A search helps. It is not your oil. It's your 4.7
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/v8/2896.html
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/v8/3577.html
http://www.dodgedakota.net/boards/gen/9834.html
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