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93dak318
Dodge Dakota
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1/07/2004
22:39:09
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 Subject: Need some help...
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I own a well used 93 dakota with the 5.2L V8 and I am very interested in building it to the 350-400 hp range. I'm looking at several parts combos and need some input.
1. Cylinder heads - Do I go with the mopar aluminum heads and use the original valves or with the cast iron R/T head with larger valves and combustion chamber?
2. Cam - I want this truck to be totally streetable yet maximize low end torque and high RPM horsepower. What sort of duration cam should I be looking for? Purple shaft part number would even be helpful?
3. ECU - Do I go with a mopar chip and replace my old computer or do I try to interface with the existing one and reprogram it myself? If its the reprogram route...how do you do that?
Thanks for all of your help.
PS to the chevy guys who drop by this website...I respect your courage to take a look at an all around better product. Shows me that not all chevy guys are morons.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/07/2004
23:40:49
| RE: Need some help...
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Opinions are like...well, you know, but here's my take on it.
Snag the RT cast iron heads with big valves.
For a cam, I'd go at least with the CompCams XR264R-14 (212/218 @ .050 and .480 lift), maybe even the XR265R-14 (216/224 @ .050 and .506 lift). Mopar Perf Magnum RT valvesprings/locks/retainers/pushrods.
The Mopar Perf PCM is an easy way to get the computer mods necessary to run with these mods. It's pretty basic as these things go, but it gets the job done. Keep in mind roller rockers (1.6:1) will free up some more power. Ultimately, headers will help too, though you may have some of the better flowing early exhaust manifolds. They were on 92's and early '93's.
With all this improved airflow capability, you'd be able to make use of a better flowing throttle body.
Toss in a TransGo shift kit to get the most power to the wheels.
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93dak318
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
09:41:04
| RE: Need some help...
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Thanks. Opinion backed by experience is what I'm looking for. The R/T heads are cheaper anyway...though the new valves and such may balance that out. Have you tried the Mopar PCM? I've read a lot of posts from people who have...does it hamper normal street driving? Is fuel flow an issue with the stock pump? And what is the M1 intake I've been reading about?
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b1llyw
GenII
1/08/2004
10:49:04
| RE: Need some help...
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I agree on getting the R/T iron heads. We've got a bunch of cams on our site. The 206 or 206x work well and we can get wilder than that on your truck.
On a '93 you've got the full return fuel system stock which is a real plus. As long as your stock pump is working properly you won't have any fuel problems unless you get into running a blower.
The Mopar PCM will only enhance street driving and definitely adds power down low. '92 and '93 are good years for performance. The PCM is "mod-friendly", it doesn't have a lot of garbage-code that triggers trouble lights in later years.
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Ram 1500 QC 4x4 Hemi Off-Road
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93dak318
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
11:01:48
| RE: Need some help...
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That's great news. Thanks. Where is your shop Bill?
Gen1dak recommended a better throttle body too...what type? What am I looking for in a "better" throttle body?
Also, traction will be my worst enemy after these mods are complete. What are people out there doing to get a 2800lb truck to hook up?
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b1llyw
GenII
1/08/2004
11:32:32
| RE: Need some help...
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The shop is in Cocoa, Florida.
http://www.krcperformance.com
You want a throttle body that will flow the enough air to support your motor in terms of displacement, cam, heads, etc. We sell F&B throttle bodies. Billet pieces, well designed. Traction in a truck is always fun. Cal-tracs traction bars work well to get you planted. Drag shocks are an option. Pull your front sway bar if you have one. Slicks are great although the stock rear won't be happy with them for too long. You can swap an old 8 3/4 rear in and run slicks all day long.
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Ram 1500 QC 4x4 Hemi Off-Road
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93dak318
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
12:50:27
| RE: Need some help...
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Thanks for your website. Can you get the mopar parts and ship to Colorado? Out of curiosity, why do you use compcams instead of purple shaft?
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b1llyw
GenII
1/08/2004
12:55:27
| RE: Need some help...
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We can certainly get Mopar parts and we do ship to Colorado (or just about anywhere). Even Mopar doesn't grind their own cams. Crane grinds the Mopar stuff. There aren't any of the traditional purple shaft cams for the Magnum motors. Mopar doesn offer two grinds which are pretty mild. We've developed a good relationship with Comp Cams to grind our cams and they seem to run pretty well.
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Ram 1500 QC 4x4 Hemi Off-Road
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93dak318
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
15:53:38
| RE: Need some help...
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Excellent website! Lots of helpful info. You guys will definitely be hearing from me for more parts and tips. Couple of question for you...
1. You sure are proud of your RT heads. What am I getting from you that I'm not getting from Jegs for $900 aside from the valves and stuff?
2. What are the duration and lift specs on your 206 and 206x cams? I was also reading that if I use 1.7:1 roller rockers that I don't even need to switch the cam. Is it worth the $300 for the cam? Do I have to pull the motor to replace the cam?
3. If I replace the cam do I need a new timing chain?
4. What type of ignition setup do you recommend?
5. Will the M-1 intake from a 2002 fit on my 93? Someone posted one for sale. If not, and I buy one from you, do I need the EGR complete setup?
6. Do you guys program your own PCMs or are they the MP ones?
If you prefer you can email me directly at gmschu76@comcast.net.
Thanks again.
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b1llyw
GenII
1/08/2004
16:08:01
| RE: Need some help...
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1. Heads: obviously all the valves and stuff, porting and re-working for maximum flow. Our prices are right there with other builders.
2. Cam specs: these are at .050
206 - 206/210-480/512 112
206x - 206/210-480/512 108
You can achieve increased lift with 1.7 rockers but it wouldn't get you to where either of these cams would. You do not need to pull the motor to change cams.
3. I would change the timing chain with the cam. On a '93 I'm guessing you have enough miles on your chain that you would benefit from a new one. And it's cheap insurance.
4. MSD 6A box, MSD blaster coil, good plugs and wires should do it.
5. You do need the EGR setup M1 for your truck. If the one on the 2002 had EGR (and the guy just had it blocked off) then you could use that one. If it's the non-EGR style M1, you can't use it.
6. The Mopar PCM would work for you. Unlike the newer PCM's, you can't just flash to the 92-95 OBD-I computers in the same way. You can add and remove advance on 92-94 computers. But for any major re-programming you actually have to crack the case, pull the chip, write to it, and solder it back in. It's not necessary in most applications. The earlier PCM's had more aggressive programming anyway which is helpful.
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Ram 1500 QC 4x4 Hemi Off-Road
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93dak318
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
18:08:16
| RE: Need some help...
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You've been extremely helpful.
Last three questions...promise.
1. How much do I stand to gain by switching to the RT heads? How much difference is there between RT heads from Mopar and the ones from KRC?
2. Do I have to pull the radiator to get the cam out?
3. Where do I get a FIPK? I didn't see them on your site.
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b1llyw
GenII
1/08/2004
18:28:30
| RE: Need some help...
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The gain with the heads will depend on what else you do in terms of the M1, throttle body, other mods. We take the Mopar heads and massage them to make more power. You will have to take the radiator out for a cam swap. We can get you the FIPK for your truck, we carry a bunch of stuff that isn't uploaded to our site.
I don't mind questions at all. :)
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Ram 1500 QC 4x4 Hemi Off-Road
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93dak318
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
18:39:08
| RE: Need some help...
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Whoops. I just noticed that you recommended the 214 or 216 cam not the 206's. What are the specs on those?
Glad you don't mind the questions.
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b1llyw
GenII
1/08/2004
18:43:58
| RE: Need some help...
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No, the 206 or 206x are both nice choices. Anything up to the 220 will run well in a 318. Take a look at our cam page:
http://www.krcperformance.com/newcontent/cams.html
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Ram 1500 QC 4x4 Hemi Off-Road
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93dak318
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
18:51:32
| RE: Need some help...
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Ok I looked, but I'm ashamed to admit that I don't know what it means!!! How do you pick the right cam? All I know is that Edlebrock used to sell matched sets with an intake and carb. I know how they work...I just don't know what makes one a better choice than another.
My mind is a sponge. I'll read anything you've got on this subject.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
19:50:51
| RE: Need some help...
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A couple footnotes. The '97 and up 8 1/4 rears were substantially upgraded with heavier shafts, etc, so if you run across one for a good price.... Not in the league with the 8 3/4, but better than previous years. On the 1.7's giving more lift, as stated, they will do this, but the reason they will not give the power of a new cam is in the cam profile. The 1.7's will do essentially nothing to address this. So, with 1.7's, you get more lift, but still a lazy profile. You can have a lower lift cam with a more aggressive ramp profile, and it'll make more than a jacked up lazy profile. As for picking a cam, consider the operating rpm range. How are you going to use it? A killer cam from 4 grand up is a total dog in a street vehicle. The cams have an operating range. On the street, you're pretty much limited to around 6300rpm redline unless you're prepared to start beefing up the shortblock, so you don't want a cam that's outside that expectation. Keep in mind that the lobe seperation of a given cam will dictate its manners as compared to other cams with identical specs except for lobe sep. So, as lobe sep goes up, say, 110-114, the idle smooths out and the powerband tends to widen, but you'll lose a litte power in the lower rpm. 108-110 will have less graceful manners (some 108 degree cams sound downright nasty), but will have more midrange grunt, and tend to have a bit narrower powerband. All this is relative. Many factors affect this (lift, overlap, duration). On cast iron heads, yeah, they're heavier, but for general street duty, you're gonna get away with more abuse (blown water hose...running hot) than with aluminum. Aluminum is great, don't get me wrong. Aw Hell, just get the whole Edelbrock setup and put a carb on it! ;-D
Just kidding.
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Dakdoc
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
21:34:27
| RE: Need some help...
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Actually the 1.7 does change the profile of the lobe and has a faster rate of rise. I use the Comp Extreme 3100 lobes with 1.7's for very fast cylinder fill on the intake only. The optimal lobe center is a 108. Cam manufactures use higher durations to sell bigger cams. With 108 lobes, you do not have to run higher durations. Look at our 408 cam (210/220 108+4) runs 12.70 at 107 and is very mild at 12" of vacuum. Peak torque is always higher with tighter lobe seps and EGT temps are lower also. The 408X cam is a 214/224 108+4 and runs 12.4 at 110. You can barely tell its a cam in there. So I would recommend the Mopar PCM, 206X or 210X, M-1 2bbl with a 52mm TB, mild headwork or the 2.02 R/T heads, with Mopar headers and torque converter. Easy 330 rear wheel HP. I will be testing a 220/230 108 in a N/A 408 next week from its original 220/230 114 (12.7 @108mph)and post the results. Later!
Marty
KRC Performance, Florida
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93dak318
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
21:43:09
| RE: Need some help...
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Right on Marty. Thanks.
Can you explain the extrudehone option to me?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/08/2004
23:15:34
| RE: Need some help...
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Yes, Marty, I understand that the profile is affected by increased ratio. My point is simply that when looking for a performance option, simply boosting the ratio on a stock cam typically is not as beneficial as starting with a new stick. BTW, kudos on the website rework. Optimal lobes?....I'm not even gonna go there. Ask a dozen people, you'll get a dozen different answers on that...all you have to do is look at the cam grinds to see that pretty much every major brand (more or less)uses something different. Who's right? Uh uh. Not goin' there either. That's why I was trying to qualify my comments as being very generic and highly variable based on many other factors.
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93/5.2
Dodge Dakota
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1/10/2004
01:13:42
|  RE: Need some help...
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This post has been a lot of help since I too have a 1993 318 Dakota. I have 3 quick questions to ask
1: Marty recommend getting a torque converter for the truck, and I see that KRC sells 3 kinds of converters, so which one should be used?
2:When you say new headers, I am guessing you mean the Doug Thorley/Mopar Headers for the 92-95 year Daks or some other header?
3:What kind of exhuast would you recommend, true duals or cat-back? If a cat-back, which system for the 93 Dak?
Thanks again for the great information like 93dak318 said and the KRC website an excellent website.
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b1llyw
GenII
1/10/2004
07:52:29
| RE: Need some help...
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For stock truck or lightly modded, maybe a cam and some-bolt ons, The Mopar converters work great. Big cams, boost, spray, etc. make a something like the Viper converter we sell a necessity. The Mopar converter holds up pretty well though.
The Thorley/Mopars are the ticket for a '93, with the 3" cat back setup. True-duals will cost you low end unless you've got the heads/cam combo to take advantage of it. Gibson has a nice catback system for the '93's. You might also look at a local shop to see if they can bend you up something, maybe get yourself a Dynomax muffler that way. Dynomax has a catback as well, but it's only a 2.5" setup.
Bill White - KRC Performance
'95 CC 4x2, SLT - 408 is done, truck isn't
'03 Ram 1500 QC 4x4 Hemi Off-Road
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