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01:21:34 - 12/20/2024
V8 Dakotas
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1340
Dodge Dakota
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1/01/2004
20:58:33
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 Subject: non-magnum
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Does anyone know the HP., and Torque of the '91 non-magnum 5.2 litre V-8?
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/01/2004
22:37:09
| RE: non-magnum
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The TBI was a hold-over til the Magnums hit the scene, so nothing was done to boost their power. 170hp @3600rpm and 245 ft/lb @1600rpm. Rev above 4 grand and you might as well be hitting a brick wall, but there are things that can be done to kick 'em up.
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91DakotaFreak
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2004
01:50:02
| RE: non-magnum
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260 ft Lbs @2000rpm and 170hp @ ????rpm
A list of things you can to
1. K@N drop in filter
2. 5.9L TBI unit with the 318 injectors
3. Remove the plastic flap infront of the airintake tube
4. Remove the A.I.R. pump and put a magnum belt tensioner pulley on it
5. Full length Hooker Headers (only place that makes headers for the 91)
6. Transgo Shift kit
7. Jet Chip Stage 1 or 2
8. Remove cat and put a better flowing exhaust on it
9. 180 degree thermostat
10. Black Magic 150 electric fan
11. Advance initial timming to 12 degrees
12. Port and polish the 5.9L TBI unit
I have a reg cab 318 auto with the sure grip diff and 3.55 gears. With mods number 1,2,3,4,8,11,12 and on a very humid night ran a 16.2 and that was with 103,000 miles on it since then i have added the 180 degree thermostat. With these mods i average 13mpg city and 15-16mpg highway
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2004
02:32:56
| RE: non-magnum
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91? Don't take this the wrong way, I'm not out to skewer you, but why the 5.9 TBI with 5.2 injectors? An entire 5.9 TBI with 5.9 injectors, along with 5.9 computer is the way to go here. A 16.2 with all the mods you selected should net better times, and I go back to the TBI setup. Without the 5.9 computer, your fuel curve is unchanged. What's the point of having a bigger TBI if you're not taking advantage of it? Again, don't take this the wrong way. Am I missing something? An unmodified Shelby with 318 and 3.90 gears ran 16.40's bone stock, so you see where I'm coming from on your times so far.
To your list, I offer these comments:
1.yes
2. Full 5.9 TBI/computer
3.Yes
4.No. Emissions, remember?
5. No. See #4....unless they have provisions for air injection.
6.yes.
7. Not without some serious mods like a 340HP cam and 360 heads.
8. No. See #4. Install hi-flow cat with single 3-inch cat back.
9.no
10.Why? Any Mopar viscous fan package will be better than this.
11.Advance as tolerated, relative to desired fuel grade.
12. Not unless ya got cash to burn. It's just not necessary at this level.
13. Cam? Got cam? How 'bout a cam?
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91DakotaFreak
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2004
02:49:01
| RE: non-magnum
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I dont have the entier list of mods that are on there i only have 1,2,3,4,8,11 I also had very heavy off road tires on it when i went and the track conditions where terrible also it was the first time to the track and it had 103,000miles on the truck.
Also i have tried the 5.9L injectors on the 318 and they run way to rich with the 318 computer so swapping comps isnt really going to do much for you also the intake on the 318 is approx. .5" smaller in diameter than the 318 tb. So you dont gain much more than throttle response there unless you take the intake off to have it bored out. Yes you could do a cam but this computer doesnt like a big change in cam also the base timing helps some but you need to remember that the computer controls actual timing so it wont do much for you for your totall advance. The Electric fan will free up some hp unlike the stock clucth fan. It is really hard to mod on of these earlier computers without changing the intake and ignition system. Im just doing a few small things to get by wating to build the 408 or 419 stroker for it. I do see where you are coming from though on the 360 Computer idea but im not reall sure if it would work on the 318
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2004
11:44:33
| RE: non-magnum
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Okay, I can see where the big tires would cut into things, and I was judging it based on the mods you specified from the total list. A couple of things. Regarding the 360 TBI/computer swap: Mopar Performance offered this along with a low restriction muffler as a performance upgrade back then (25hp/30ft-lbs---hey, it was the late 80's, and they had little else to offer, but this was on an otherwise unmodified engine, so there's more than just throttle response there). The key is to use all 360 hardware, not just the throttle body. They also included a template to open the manifold bores so the 360 throttle blades could open fully. With this upgrade, you now have enough headroom to run a cam in the 340hp range. It works very well as long as the lobe sep. is kept in the 112-114 degree range, duration is kept short, and lift is kept moderate (.430-.450), or throw on some 1.6:1 rockers. Swap in the 360 TBI manifold with 360 heads. While the electric fan will free a few hp, the MP viscous package will not tax the electrical system, (as well as take hp when they kick in--extra load on the alternator). It's a toss-up. Having been screwed by burnt electric relays, I prefer the engine driven fan. I have a build-up article on a Shelby from the early 90's. This was of particular interest to me since I also have a Shel. I'm actually doing a 360 Magnum upgrade, but like to share info on just what can be done, especially when the 360 hardware is applied to the 318.
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1340
Dodge Dakota
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1/02/2004
19:26:55
| RE: non-magnum
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Thanks for the info guys.
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91DakotaFreak
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
15:34:59
| RE: non-magnum
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Ill have to see what i can find on a 360 comp is it just the engine comp or the entire system? Would you have to swap the heads and intake to use the comp? What all would i have to do to make the 360 comp work? I was always under the impression that the 360 comp wouldnt work with the 318. Is that why when i put the 360 injectors on the 318 it ran really rich? If i put the 360 comp in there would that get rid of that problem?
Any web sites that you can send me to for more info. Also does it matter what year i get the comp out of from the 360? but it would have to be before 93 right
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bakindak
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
22:34:54
| RE: non-magnum
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I am gonna make a list of those, I have looked everywhere for those answers.
One thing that you guys didnt put on their that was suggested to me was was a TB spacer. Now I know that most guys say that it is a waste of money, but because us pre-magnum guys have wet injection setups that it actually works, same as a carb spacer.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
23:16:54
| RE: non-magnum
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As backindak stated, the spacer will work on pre-Mags because, for all intents and purposes, the injectors were essentially electronic carbs.
The 360 computer is plug-and-play. You do not need the 360 heads/intake, but using the 360 computer and TBI opens the door to such hop-ups. The system will work perfectly if you use all 360 parts. Do not mix/match TB and injectors, etc. The way these older computers were programmed, you have very stringent limits as to how the data is handled. It's very likely the 360 injectors caused the rich condition because they were a bit more than the 318 TB could use. They must be matched. The 360 TB looks the same, and is minimally larger than the 318. I know it's tempting to save on parts, but use 360 parts, or none at all.
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bakindak
Dodge Dakota
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1/03/2004
23:54:27
| RE: non-magnum
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What is the stock compression on the 318. I was looking at some different cams for the truck but wasnt sure on the compression ratio
Also any suggestions for a good cam is greatly appreciated
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91DakotaFreak
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2004
05:41:19
| RE: non-magnum
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9.0:1
SO for the computer all i need is the engine control module the cbody computer can just be left alone right?
The time i tried the 360 injectors was with the 360 TBI but without the 360 comp which if im understanding correctly is why it ran rich.
Also was that package that MP offered with headers and all or just the comp and TB that netted the 25hp and 30ftLbs or was there more to it.
Is the Bolt pattern on the TBI unit the Same as a 2 barrel Carb? If so then couldnt you swap to a four barrel intake and use a carb adapter plate to fit the TB?
Sorry to keep draggin on the subject but im interested in getting a 360 engine computer if it nets that much of an improvement. The down side is that i have to pull the intake to open up the Intake bores
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2004
08:56:46
| RE: non-magnum
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Correct, 360 TB without 360 computer would definitely cause problems, running rich for sure.
The bolt pattern is not the same on the TB vs carb. That was one of the first things I checked many years ago. On mine, you can plainly see "Holley" on the TB, but when I started looking at the possibility of getting more power by swapping the Holley aftermarket jobbie, I found that the stocker has an offset bolt pattern. If you could get an adapter plate custom made to fit, then you could mate the TB to an aftermarket intake. The aftermarket Holley has a standard bolt pattern. I imagine the bolt patter was offset just for this situation....to keep owners from swapping things out without considerable effort. And no, the aftermarket Holley stuff cannot be mixed with the factory deal....you'll run into the same problems as you have already seen.
I tell ya, if I were doing this today, I would save up for the Holley Commander with throttle body injection, swap it out and run it with the O2 sensor capability it has. You'd still have an emissions-correct setup, despite the fact that it isn't officially certified for emissions. (Neither is the Edelbrock Performer intake, but it is universally considered 50-state legal by all governing bodies---go figure). Stash the aftermarket computer under the seat and let the inspectors try to figure it out if that's an issue. Hell, it'd probably be cleaner than the original setup, definitely more flexible. I kinda wish I'd known now, what I didn't know just a couple years ago. I got this Magnum and set about trying to mate it with my '89. Got into this ass-backwards, but I have learned a great deal about how it all works. Don't know it all, but I have learned a lot.
Regarding the hop-up ket from MP, it was called the "1989 Shelby Dakota Performance Kit." P4529979. A minor correction: 20hp, 30lbs torque. It was a 360 throttle body, template to open the 318 intake for the throttle blade clearance, the 360 SMEC, and a low-restriction muffler (looks a lot like a flowmaster). That was it. No headers. It was a direct replacement that used all stock attachment hardware. The 360 computer was a performance version with fatter fuel curves and more advanced ignition spark curves, but I wouldn't sweat that. Wish I'd had the $ to get one back then. Even the 360 stocker is an improvement (and necessary with 360 TB), and if you needed more than that, Jet does offer a module to address that.
No problem with the questions. It's the nature of these things to answer one question, only to find two more questions.
Yeah, it's a drag pulling the LA intake. One thing about the Maggie is the ease at which the intake is pulled.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/04/2004
09:08:39
| RE: non-magnum
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Oh, on a cam. I've had good results with Competition Cams, but it's more about getting the right grind than a brand name. Take your pick. Personally, I've found CC to be very helpful, and informative. Okay, of the pre-ground available cams I'd slam the XR265R-14 into that thing so fast...Keep in mind this is the cam I'd use IF I had the 360 TB and computer. With the stock 318 TB setup, I wouldn't go further than the 254HR-12. Either cam will require stronger valve springs to accomodate the greater lift on the cams. On the Shelby buildup I have, they used the OEM 340HP cam and flat lifters (there weren't any available performance roller cams available then, only expensive custom jobs). Again, this was after swapping 318 TB/computer for a 360 setup.
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