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bad dakota
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2003
01:03:00
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 Subject: better gas milage
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Is there anything I can do to my 98 dak 4x4 cc to get better gas milage. right now I am getting 13 city and 15-17 highway. Please inform me if you can.thanks
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.DOC.
Dodge Dakota
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12/06/2003
12:42:08
| RE: better gas milage
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Your numbers aren't too bad for most 4X4 trucks. You didn't mention which engine, though.
Consider easing the air restrictions into the engine with an AirAid, K&N, or equivilant. Low restriction exhaust from the cat back. Throttle body smoothing by FastMan or equivilant will help. SuperChips hand held programmer will also provide improvement, if available for your engine.
I've done these on my 5.9 QC and get 17-18 mpg on the highway at sensible speeds. My around-town is poor at about 10 or so, but my trips are only about a mile at best (to get to work and back). There isn't but enought time to warm the engine with short-shot stop-and-go.
Don't expect marvels in economy with 4X4 trucks- the aerodynamics, weight, rotational masses &tc. just don't lend to good gas mileage. Figure it takes a certain amount of energy to accelerate a particular mass to a specific velocity, and accept the costs. Ya know what I mean?
Enjoy your rig for what it is,...Doc
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Sesquash
Dodge Dakota
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12/07/2003
16:06:00
| RE: better gas milage
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Just let the truck up to temp and idle for an hour to an hour and a half. Just that. It resets the PCM to the economy-fuel mode.
Gave me a couple more mpg's...
Sesquash
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Dally
Dodge Dakota
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12/07/2003
18:21:08
| RE: better gas milage
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Are you serious??
Has anyone else heard this before ??
How many minutes exactly does this require at idle ??
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Sesquash
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2003
04:46:06
| RE: better gas milage
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Hello Dally.
I live around the Great Lakes, and it has been around 28 F of late. Since the Summer, I had noticed my mileage go down about 2.5 mpg on average due to the colder weather, etc.
Well...I met up with an old girlfriend the other day outside a mall. We sat in my car and gabbed for about an hour and a half---while at idle. Well, when I finally drove away, I noticed that my mileage was up 2.5 mpg on average. It has stayed that way ever since.
What I believe happens is that when you tromp the pedal, the PCM alters the mapping of the fuel-flow/air-mixture. What doesn't happen, I think is that it goes as quickly the 'other way' of sensing a small throttle position and map out for 'economy' mode. What idling the truck let's say an hour to an hour and a half will do, is give the right 'info' to the PCM to then 'give it up' and map to a more conservative fuel flow/air-mixture.
Try it out. It works!
Sesquash
2003 R/T
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Dally
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2003
09:38:28
| RE: better gas milage
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Thanx Sexwatch(LOL), I'll try it out. worst that can happen is I'll burn a bit of gas.
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.DOC.
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2003
11:55:51
| RE: better gas milage
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Sesquach & Dally,
I don't think you're resetting the computer by letting the rig idle. I expect that what you're seeing is the average mpg increasing because your fuel consumption is less at idle than while in motion. This will change your "average" mpg upwards for a while, at least. (I've noticed this watching my 'drive until empty' numbers as I get close to filling my tank. If I sit at idle for a bit, the miles I can drive increases, which is the same as my mpg improving)
To reset the computer requires removing power and, I believe, turning on the ignition or some other additional steps which others more experienced than I can provide.
Note: if it were an instant mpg increase (realized) to idle for a while, that would be lagre news. I think you're seeing a different situation, though, than real long-term fuel efficiency improvement,...Doc
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oyotaco
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2003
12:08:59
| RE: better gas milage
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sorry guys, but you should know that you dont buy a dodge for fuel economy. my mileage sucks, and i know it, but i live with it cause its a dodge. if i wanted fuel economy i would have 4 cyl toyota 2wd.
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Sesquash
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2003
13:02:26
| RE: better gas milage
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Hi Doc!
Actually...it is working like gang-busters!
I piced up 20 more miles already from full to the three-quarters mark. I am getting that 2.5 back no matter at idle, at 40 mph, or at 60 mph. I have reset my mileage comp while at all speeds and it settles right back to that higher figure. Also, as I noted to you, my increase to the first mark on the fuel gauge.
It works...don't ask me how...it works...:)
After I kill a few nats (Ford F150 Harley Rigs) I'll make sure I do the 1 1/2 hour idle, and pick up the milage until the next 'Harley' comes sniffin' at my R/T's tailpipe.... :)
Sesquash
2003 R/T
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Sesquash
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2003
13:05:36
| RE: better gas milage
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C'mon, oyotaco....you can have your cake and eat it too.
1... Own the best, hottest, sexiest, pick-up truck MADE..the Dakota Gen III, even better if it is born as an R/T!!!
and...
you can scam a few more miles per gallon from 'er...and you LOOK good to the ladies... :)
Try it...
Sesquash
2003 R/T
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Hemi
Dodge Dakota
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12/08/2003
14:27:55
| RE: better gas milage
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.DOC.
If your not moving you are technically getting 0 mpg. Reset your computer next time you are idling. Ive sat in a parking lot for about 30 minutes with my truck running and the milage dropped about 1mpg from just idling.
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03DaKoTa
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2003
15:41:22
| RE: better gas milage
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What the hell are you guys bitching about? You obviously bought the V8 for a reason and if it was for good gas milage your a fool! Take the power and the fun you can get out of your V8 and enjoy it. If milage is that big of a deal to you go down to your local Honda dealership, grab a hold of a salesman, and tell him you would like to trade in your "tough" truck for a pussy Honda civic so you can a afford the gas. Just my opinion. I know what your thinking opinions are like a$$holes!
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.DOC.
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2003
16:13:05
| RE: better gas milage
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Hemi,
You're right about 0-mph at idle-I wasn't thinking when typing :-}) .
I asked a few brighter-than-usual mechanics about this topic and the response was that the computer constantly learns as the truck is driven, and remaps itself to the characteristics of use at that time. When the truck is idling, the computer is learning how to idle (which it already knows).
It is possible that the mpg improvement was the result of warming up the engine to a point where the rig was able to run somewhat leaner, resulting in better fuel economy.
I'm glad Sasquach is showing better fuel economy, but not all that convinced it is the result of a 1-1/2 hour idle. I've got a curious mind, though, and would wonder what the mpg improvement would be to simply have the ignition on for 1-1/2 hours and not be consuming any fuel. All the electronics would ge energized, resulting in the 'resetting of the PCM', but would be occuring with a no-fuel-consumption imput.
And 03Dakota is right, to a point. A truck is a truck is a truck. There are compromises with any vehicle, which includes fuel non-economy. There are tricks and techniques to provide limited improvements in fuel useage, but in the final analysis, we've got thirsty rigs. They can, though, be fun, and that is the return on investment of fuel.
Doc
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Sesquash
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2003
16:50:18
| RE: better gas milage
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Hey Doc,....
:)
No matter what, I'm not 'bitching' about my fuel consumption...but rather, if I can tromp the throttle when I wish to for performance, and then get into some rendition of an 'economy' run...then why not?
Of course I know what I purchased! But..people can have their cake and eat it too. You just have to plan to do that...lol.
Since my idle time...and not putting the pedal to the metal...I have retained that 2 plus mpg on the clock.
Sesquash
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.DOC.
Dodge Dakota
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12/09/2003
17:36:20
| RE: better gas milage
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Sasquach,
Hey, no criticism from this end of the world!!
I agree with you on the need for speed and acceptance of what we've purchased. Fast is fun (when it is safe). :-})
I expect your 2 mpg is at least as much a function of keeping the peddle off the floor as anything else. For my part, I've made a real attempt to see how good I can do with economy lately, despite my limited mods [3"cat-back, FastMan TB,AirAid cold air system, Autolites, 180* t-stat and the latest: a SuperChips programmer, set on the 91 Octane program]. I average right at 18mpg on the highway with my '00 5.9 4WD QC running ar 60-65 mph. (Towing a loaded 16' FSC tandem axle travel trailer [about 4,000#] I get 12 mpg). That drops quickly if I run in the 70s, do a brief 'run to 100', or have a bit of competition-conditions and traffic permitting.
Yes Dakotas are fun, but it seems there is a finite group of things we can do to lessen the fuel required to propel these 2+ ton dirty-in-the-wind funmobiles to speed and down the road. One of my supervisors has a GMC Duramax diesel and gets 22 hwy and 16 when towing a 30' 5th wheel. Respectable numbers! Still, I like mine for looks and spunk, and am willing to pay the price for that in fuel.
Doc's Maxium: 'Drive what you like and have fun with what you drive. Remember, though, don't endanger others with your fun :-}).
Doc
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Sesquash
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2003
12:09:51
| RE: better gas milage
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I hear ya, Doc!
I just wanted to point out...that after I had a bout or three with killin' off a couple of local F-150 Harley Brats...and yes..I did....lol...I found that my mileage stayed down, EVEN ...EVEN if I barely touched the throttle.
I don't think that those PCM's are all too bright..and respond to throttle input VERY slowly. Since having idled and found out BY TOTAL ACCIDENT the benefits of doing so...I am now at 15.5 FRIGGIN' mpg!!!!!!!!! I have NO COMPLAINTS about my R/T! That's fer sure...lol.
I better not see any GM's Fords, for a while...'cause then my foot gets tramp-itis and the fuel goes into after-burn.
Lord..no matter the chronic problems some Dak owners are having...I wouldn't trade this vehicle for the world. It is just is too much DAMN FUN!
Had I not traded in that 2001 Sport DAK for this HONKING 2003 R/T, I would have NEVER known the true 'sport' potential of the Dodge Dakota! R/T's are the stuff of wetdreams....LOLOLOL! It truly is all about that torq'ing 360 cuber riding on the R/T suspension package. What a friggin' match Doc! What a match!
Nice tapping at ya...Cheers, and Merry Christmas! Drive safe...
Sesquash
2003 R/T
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Dally
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2003
16:36:56
| RE: better gas milage
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Sesquash:
I have a 2000 4.7 4x4 with the 31 inch factory tire pkg. I tried your little trick out, No increase. However, the overhead showed no decrease either. after burning gas for an hour and a half and logging no miles, I had assumed that my average would have been effected. No good, no bad, just a bit of wasted gas.
By the way, I got succered into buying a "tornado fuel saver" I do feel that on carbourated engine, they might be onto somthing. But with direct port fuel injection, they're no good for anything but baiting those that are tryin too hard to get screwed.
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Dally
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2003
16:37:14
| RE: better gas milage
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Sesquash:
I have a 2000 4.7 4x4 with the 31 inch factory tire pkg. I tried your little trick out, No increase. However, the overhead showed no decrease either. after burning gas for an hour and a half and logging no miles, I had assumed that my average would have been effected. No good, no bad, just a bit of wasted gas.
By the way, I got succered into buying a "tornado fuel saver" I do feel that on carbourated engine, they might be onto somthing. But with direct port fuel injection, they're no good for anything but baiting those that are tryin too hard to get screwed.
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Dally
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2003
16:38:04
| RE: better gas milage
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OOPS
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Cyrus
Dodge Dakota
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12/10/2003
19:36:23
|  RE: better gas milage
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I've worked with EFI quite a bit, and I've even programmed PCM maps from scratch, so I hope I can be helpful here.
In theory, idling will NOT change your true gas mileage. At idle the pcm (EFI computer) is operating in 'closed loop' mode (usually) - it gets feedback from the O2 sensor and adjust the air/fuel/spark real-time. This tends to be efficent (better gas mileage). In many OEM applications Air/Fuel ratios in closed-loop operations can run as lean as 17 parts air to 1 part fuel (17:1). At Wide Open Throttle (WOT) it operates in 'open-loop mode' It just reads a fixed table and dumps in fuel according to what the table says (there is no feedback - safe, but inefficent ). WOT, and hence 'open-loop' operations tend to be programmed very rich (for a variety of reasons I won't get into). WOT operations can run as rich as 12:1
So, in short, any time you're in 'closed-loop' operations (basically anytime you're NOT placing a heavy load on the motor - idle, cruising on the freeway, mild acceleration), your motor is constantly seeking the most efficient combustion process, and thus, the best gas mileage. There really is no such thing as 'economy mode'.
SIDE NOTE: I have programmed in something like an 'economy mode' based on gear selection(6th gear on my 550hp Twin Turbo Mitsubishi 3000GT), but this would not work with a car used by the general public because you must run dangerously lean, so the driver must adjust his driving habits.
To get back to the subject, your car does 'learn' how to idle efficently if you let it idle for 30 minutes, but as soon as you accelerate, even mild acceleration, it uses different a/f maps to inject fuel, therefor, idling will have NO effect on acceleration, cruising, or WOT operations.
In a nutshell: Idling you car WILL NOT improve gas mileage.
Want better gas mileage: Keep your right foot off the floor. However,if you're like me, I treat the accelerator pedal like an on/off switch - floor it to go and lift to stop .... lots of fun ... lots of gas.
Cyrus
'97 V8 Reg Cab - puke teal green - bald rear tires
Ported Heads, intake, TB, and Exhaust manifold, cat-back exhaust
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Sesquash
Dodge Dakota
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12/12/2003
04:45:29
| RE: better gas milage
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Thanks Cyrus for the post. OK...you seem to know a hell of a lot more on the subject than myself, so..I'll adopt your sentiments. Having said that though...I am seeing 15.5 MPG where before that really long unintentional idle...I was only getting 12.5-13 MPG.
I dunno....go figure...
Sesquash
2003 R/T
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