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V8 Dakotas
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Jeremy
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2003
19:37:11
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 Subject: Oil
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Message:
It's time for an oil change on my 2000 4.7L CC. With my Bronco II that I used to own, I always used Valvoline Max Life since it was over the 100,000 mile mark. My dak has about 34,000 miles on it right now. I'm not sure which oil to use. I don't wanna get just plain old oil. Can anyone fill me in on what oil to get? I see on this site that Mobil 1 seems pretty popular as does Amsoil (which I'm sorry to say I've never heard of). Can someone give me some more info or just past experiences? I was also thinkin bout using Wix for my filter, been hearin good stuff about them. Thanks.
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.boB
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2003
22:30:15
|  RE: Oil
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Oh, no. Here we go again.
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imposter
Dodge Dakota
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11/16/2003
22:54:56
| RE: Oil
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I'm not an Amsoil dealer but I play one on TV.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/17/2003
09:16:57
|  Amsoil Filters = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Jeremy,
Can you handle the truth?
Valvoline Synthetic uses a Group III base oil, so it is NOT technically a synthetic, but hydrocracked dino (PRETEND SYNTHETIC).
Valvoline's MaxLife used to be a very good Group III oil that I would have recommended, however they recently reformulated their oils with cheaper additives so they could lower the retail prices. Bottom Line ... Valvoline's latest additive package is pretty weak - as verified by Virgin Oil Analysis and Used Oil Analysis ... NOT rumors.
If you insist on using a NON-SYNTHETIC Group III ... I would recommend Castrol or Amsoil XL-7500 vs. the Valvoline. Both the Castrol and Amsoil hold up better as per my interpretations of Used Oil Analysis' (UOA's) on all three.
IMHO ... Amsoil XL-7500 and Castrol put up some of the best UOA's within the hydrocracked Group III Oils. NOTE TO THE FLAMERS: I made positive comments regarding CASTROL (even though I don't recommend Group III oils).
NOTE: A TRUE synthetic uses either the Group IV or Group V base oil, or a mix of the two, plus their own unique additives package. As a matter of fact, I don't think any of the TRUE synthetics use all of one, they mix a combination of both. Group IV is PAOs (Polyalfaolefins) while Group IV is the esters.
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For Information Purposes Only:
I will not comment on WIX at this time. I will let other Dakota owners give you their opinion. From what I can gather, here is a list of the manufacturers, and you can follow up with your own due diligence research:
Honeywell - makes Fram (In Canada the Quaker State filters are Fram filters / In the USA, QS is Purolator), Pennzoil, Quaker State
Arvin Meritor - makes Purolator Premium Plus, PureONE, Ford OEM, V-1 & SureFlow (Superflow?)
Dana - makes Wix and Napa Gold/Silver, AC Delco DuraGuards for Canada
Baldwin (Parent of Hastings) - Baldwin, Hastings, Amsoil, Casite, maybe others
Champion Labs - Mobil 1, K&N, Supertech, AC Delco DuraGuards (two different types) for USA, Bosch Premium, STP, Ultraguard Gold, Deutch & Luberfiner
Cummins Engine - owns Fleetguard
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Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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Jeremy
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2003
10:45:48
| RE: Oil
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Now should I go with a full synthetic? conventional? or a blend?
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cloknem
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2003
12:29:53
| RE: Oil
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amsoilsponsor,
I am running amsoil. where/how do I get an oil analysis for my truck?
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/18/2003
12:30:41
| Amsoil SDF = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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I always use synthetic. The main reason synthetic oils perform so much better than petroleum is that it is molecularly stable. All of the molecules are virtually the same. Not so with petroleum.
With synthetic, you reduce friction which in turn reduces internal heat and wear and tear on the motor or moving parts. Less friction means less wear - more horsepower with less work for the engine to do.
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Wix Oil Filters (a very good filter)
If anyone reads this and is deciding upon a filter based on price, and they want to purchase a $5 filter for instance, then Bosch Super Premium or Wix would be recommended. Reasons: Top notch construction, good filtering, and good flow. (The PureOne is in this price range too, but I've got issues with restricted flow in the PureOne because of the densely packed media.)
Amsoil Super Duty Filter = the best $7 filter
And if $7 (Amsoil Preferred Customer Price) is out of your budget for Amsoil SDF oil filters, it won't hurt to ask Santa for a case of Amsoil Synthetic Oil and a few Amsoil SDF Oil Filters under the tree. For a description of Amsoil SDF Filters read below.
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Amsoil Super Duty Oil Filter (SDF)
Amsoil Super Duty Oil Filters (SDF) offer all-around better filtration and protection than conventional filters. Full flow design for extended drain intervals and severe service. Our filters contain a high-tech blended filtration media composed of cellulose, synthetic and glass fibers. The media sets the Super Duty apart from conventional filters in capacity, efficiency and service life, delivering superior filtration and protection.
The AMSOIL Super Duty Oil Filter (SDF) is designed to provide maximum filtration while meeting the high flow demands of modern automobiles. The AMSOIL SDF contains a special cellulose, synthetic and glass blend media that offers the best possible balance of long life, high capacity and overall efficiency.
The AMSOIL SDF has a lofted fiber depth-type media that traps dirt throughout its entire thickness for exceptional filtering efficiency. It keeps oil clean and free of wear-causing contaminants.
The AMSOIL SDF has a heavy-duty case of drawn steel. The case is double-crimped at the base with rolled-under seaming to withstand extreme pressure surges and road shocks.
The AMSOIL SDF has an anti-drainback valve that keeps trapped contaminants in the filter when the engine is not running.
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For those following my prior posts --- I have also recommended a $2 filter (not Amsoil) for those on a budget.
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Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/18/2003
12:44:32
| Why Synthetic Oil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Two posts in one.
Clarification: Why Synthetic Oils? Why Amsoil?
Most synthetics have similarly good typical specs, but the performance from better additives, more shear stable VI, higher TBN, etc, can not be easily demonstrated with a test or a chart. These attributes of AMSOIL show up by controlling acids in the oil, eliminating corrosion in the engine, maintaining viscosity throughout the drain interval helping improve performance in the areas of fuel economy and cold weather starting, keeping contaminants in suspension until they get to the oil filter for removal or the oil is drained, and generally keeping the engine cleaner and deposit free. These benefits are not easily demonstrated with a test or a chart. Amsoil produces a SUPERIOR Synthetic Motor Oil by using only the best base oils and additives.
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Oil Analysis --- Cost and Convenience:
The cost of an oil analysis will vary according to the laboratory and extent of the analysis. Typical charges are $10 to $30 per analysis. The expense easily can be justified if it alerts the owner of a major problem that can be corrected and will help prevent downtime when the vehicle or machine is needed.
Several companies have developed oil analysis kits that make oil analysis convenient. These kits include the sample bottles, suction pump and tubing, and possibly a pre-addressed, postage-paid mailing container.
The reasonable cost and convenience of oil analysis for use makes it another management tool that should be considered by anyone wanting to do preventive maintenance.
You should use a lab that is familiar with the additive chemstry of the oil you are using. For instance ... testing Amsoil, I'd use Oil Analyzers, Inc., and for all you Mobil1 users, AV Lube. I think you will get more accurate data on oxidation, nitration, TBN, etc., etc., if you do this. Also, Blackstone Labs & Dyson Analysis are two very good oil analysis companies and you can also check the Yellow Pages for someone nearby. For Redline Motor Oil ... Oil Analyzers, Inc., Blackstone Labs, or Dyson Analysis would provide you with an excellent analysis. Other inquiries --- please ask.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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cloknem
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/18/2003
12:49:08
| RE: Oil
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Message:
Steve,
Are the oil analysis kits available on the web?
Thanks
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DSW
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2003
13:10:30
| RE: Oil
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Jeremy, I got 330K miles out of a 92 Civic running with Castrol 15/50 synthetic. When it was totalled the engine still ran great and looked spotless inside. Castrol changed the formulation of Syntec a couple of years ago and it's not the same oil anymore, but still good oil, I use the 15/50 in my 00 Dak and it's running strong at 108K. Amsoil is great oil, but hard to locate, can't run down to Wal-mart or PepBoys and pick up a quart, so I don't use it, sorry Amsoil Sponsor. Either go with full synthetic or conventional, semi-synthetic is the worst of both worlds, expensive and still not full synthetic.
Hastings and Wix are good filters, Napa and Carquest sell one of these filters under their private label, but still the same filter. Just got a couple from Carquest, $7 each.
Hey Amsoil Sponsor, If the Amsoil plant blew up and you couldn't get Amsoil anymore, which group III synthetic oil would you use; Mobil 1, Castrol Syntec, etc, etc? What is the best group III hydrocracked oil that can be bought locally, Wal-mart, Pep Boys, Checker, Autozone?
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/18/2003
13:49:01
| Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Cloknem,
You should use a lab that is familiar with the additive chemstry of the oil you are using. For instance ... testing Amsoil, I would use Oil Analyzers, Inc., and here is their website:
Oil Analyzers, Inc.
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DSW,
First, Mobil1 is NOT a Group III.
Second ... What would I use?
Thankfully ... there is Amsoil !!!
1. Amsoil ASL/ATM
----- Amsoil S2K 20W-50
----- Amsoil 15W-40
----- Amsoil 5W/10W-30 (ASL/ATM)
----- Amsoil 5W-30 HDD
.... and if there were no Amsoil? (reasons in parenthesis)
1. German Castrol (X-celent, but difficult to find)
2. Mobil 1 10w-30 (convenience and the 10w- is more stable than their 5w-)
3. Chevron Supreme (Inexpensive and good UOA's)
4. Redline (if I were racing)
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Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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cloknem
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2003
14:07:14
|  RE: Oil
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Message:
Steve,
Thanks for the info. That lab is very pricey. How do I know what test to have performed? Put your money where your mouth is, have my truck tested, periodically, and we'll post the results.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/18/2003
15:44:32
| Amsoil "trick" = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Message:
cloknem,
I would love to make that offer to everyone ... but then I would be broke. My advice ... search the Internet or your local Yellow Pages for someone more price competitive.
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For the record:
A little "trick" when ordering Amsoil 0w-30 or 5w-30:
If you are considering ordering the Amsoil Series 2000 0w-30, I would recommend getting it in a case of 4 one gallon containers (i.e. Amsoil Product Code "TSO-04"). This saves you about 50 cents per quart over the price of the same oil in a case of 12 quarts. The same logic holds true for the Series 3000 5w-30.
Add this savings to the Amsoil Preferred Customer Discount and you are getting the price down to a really competitive level.
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Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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gregor
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2003
20:43:39
| RE: Oil
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While we are on the subject of oil, let me post this question regarding synthetic oil consumption...I used Castrol Syntec for years in my '87 Chrysler 2.2L turbo and it turned 150K miles using only 24oz oil between 5K changes.
The wife's '97 Neon has used Mobil 1 since 7500miles. The clock is now @ 98,000 miles and
she uses 1 qt every 1000 miles. EXCESSIVE (No,
there are NO undetected oil leaks). My local
independent Chrysler mechanic advises me that the
valves seals do not take kindly to Mobil 1 and
that most likely the oil is escaping into the combustion chambers. As a poor man's fix, he has
advised me to switch back to 100% conventional oil
and see if that minimizes the consumption. Yes,
I'll be giving up the benefits of synthetic oil,
but I feel screwed because I ran synthetic all theseyears to protect the engine...and my 'payback' is breaking my wallet, not to mention the hassle of checking mama's car every week to add oil. Anyone out there had a similar experience??? Amsoil guy, does your synthetic cause valve seal issues?
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Jeremy
Dodge Dakota
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11/18/2003
23:21:36
| RE: Oil
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Message:
Thanks everyone for your input. I was out lookin today, but Mobil 1 was waaaaaaaay too pricy for me. I was thinkin about goin with Valvoline since I've used it for awhile and haven't had any problems with it. Either that, or I might go with Castrol after reading your opinions. Thanks again.
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Vic
Dodge Dakota
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11/19/2003
01:24:49
| RE: Oil
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Message:
Hey Amsoil guy, Is Castrol Syntec a real synthetic oil? Is it better than Mobil 1?
Thanks.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/19/2003
08:46:51
|  Amsoil - Synthetic Lubrication Myths
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Gregor,
Let's put to bed some of the objections you will hear concerning the use of synthetic engine lubricants (some are old debates ... some are new):
Myth #1: Synthetic motor oils damage seals.
Untrue. It would be foolhardy for lubricant manufacturers to build a product that is incompatible with seals. The composition of seals presents problems that both petroleum oils and synthetics must overcome. Made from elastomers, seals are inherently difficult to standardize. Ultimately it is the additive mix in the oil that counts. Additives to control seal swell, shrinkage and hardening are required, whether it be a synthetic or petroleum product that is being produced.
Myth #2: Synthetics are too thin to stay in the engine.
Untrue. In order for a lubricant to be classified in any SAE grade (10W-30, 10W-40, etc) it has to meet certain guidelines with regard to viscosity ("thickness"). For example, it makes no difference whether it is 10W-40 petroleum or 10W-40 synthetic, at -25 degrees centigrade (-13F) and 100 degrees centigrade (212 degrees F) that oil has to maintain a standardized viscosity or it can't be rated a 10W-40.
Myth #3: Synthetics cause cars to use more oil.
Untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended to use in mechanically sound engines, that is, engines that don't leak. In such engines oil consumption will actually be reduced. First, because of the lower volatility of synlubes. Second, because of the better sealing characteristics between piston rings and cylinder walls. And finally, because of the superior oxidation stability (i.e. resistance of synthetics against reacting with oxygen at high temperatures.)
Myth #4: Synthetic lubricants are not compatible with petroleum.
Untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials that form the base stocks of high quality name brand synthetics are fully compatible with petroleum oils. In the old days, some companies used untested ingredients that were not compatible, causing quality synthetic lubricants to suffer a bad reputation. Fortunately, those days are long gone. Compatibility is something to keep in mind, however, whether using petroleum oils or synthetics. It is usually best to use the same oil for topping off that you have been running in the engine. That is, it is preferable to not mix your oils, even if it is Valvoline or Quaker State you are using. The reason is this: the functions of additives blended for specific characteristics can be offset when oils with different additive packages are put together. For optimal performance, it is better to use the same oil throughout.
Myth #5: Synthetic lubricants produce sludge
Untrue. In point of fact, synthetic motor oils are more sludge resistant than their petroleum counterparts, resisting the effects of high temperatures and oxidation. In the presence of high temperatures, two things happen. First, an oil's lighter ingredients boil off, making the oil thicker. Second, many of the complex chemicals found naturally in petroleum base stocks begin to react with each other, forming sludge, gums and varnishes. One result is a loss of fluidity at low temperatures, slowing the timely flow of oil to the engine for vital engine protection. Further negative effects of thickened oil include the restriction of oil flow to critical areas, greater wear and loss of fuel economy. Because of their higher flash points, and their ability to withstand evaporation loss and oxidation, synthetics are much more resistant to sludge development.
Myth #6: Synthetics can't be used with catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.
Untrue. In fact the very low ash content of synthetics will extend the life of every exhaust system component.
Myth #7: Synthetics void warranties.
Untrue. No major manufacturer of automobiles specifically bans the use of synthetic lubricants. In point of fact, increasing numbers of high performance cars are arriving on the showroom floors with synthetic motor oils as factory fill. Which may not make the dealers too happy since oil changes usually lead to other service work.
Myth #8: Synthetics last forever.
Untrue. Although some experts feel that synthetic base stocks themselves can be used forever, it is well known that eventually the additives will falter and cause the oil to require changing. However, by "topping off", additives can be replenished. Through good filtration and periodic oil analysis, synthetic motor oils protect an engine for lengths of time far beyond the capability of non synthetics. Amsoil's unique additives packages allow for extended drain intervals.
Myth #9: Synthetics are too expensive.
Untrue. Tests and experience have proven that synthetics can greatly extend drain intervals, provide better fuel economy, reduce engine wear and enable vehicles to operate with greater reliability. All these elements combine to make synthetic engine lubricants more economical than conventional non synthetics. In Europe, synthetics have enjoyed increasing acceptance as car buyers look first to performance and long term value rather than initial price. As more sophisticated technology places greater demands on today's motor oils, we will no doubt see an increasing re-evaluation of oil buying habits in this country as well.
There are other MYTHS and non-truths circulating the forums, garages, and race tracks. The nine above are just a few that I wanted to address.
Conclusions
Since their inception, manufacturers of synthetic motor oils have sought to educate the public about the facts regarding synthetics, and the need for consumers to make their lubrication purchasing decisions based on quality rather than price. As was the case with microwave ovens or electric lights, a highly technological improvement must often overcome a fair amount of public skepticism and consumer inertia before it is embraced by the general population. But the word has been getting out as a growing number of motorists worldwide experience the benefits of synthetic lubrication. The wave of the future, in automobile lubrication, is here, and Amsoil has lead the march, recently celebrating their 30th year in business. For the environmental enthusiasts, the use of synthetics could reduce waste oil disposal by 80%, so if environment is your thing, then synthetic lubricants should be your choice.
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Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/19/2003
09:40:58
| Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.com
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Vic,
Castrol Syntec is a "Faketec", as in ... it uses a Group III base oil. My biggest complaint is that it is priced nearly the same as a lot of Group IV / Group V TRUE synthetic motor oils. If you are trying to choose between Mobil1 and Castrol Syntec ... Go with the Mobil1 which is a true synthetic.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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gregor
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
11/19/2003
16:04:36
| RE: Oil
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Message:
Amsoil guy, thanks for the info. I only recently learned about the Castrol Syntec formulation being changed to group3 basestock. Like I said
earlier, I have owned many vehicles over the past
30 years and NEVER have I had a car with such
low miles (98K) use so much oil - albeit Mobil1 no less. I run Goldren Spectro synthteic blend (good additive package)in a watercooled BMW 4 cylinder motorcycle engine that has 120K miles and needs no oil added between
4K oil changes. I'm a true believer in the long
term value of using synthetic oil. I agree with
your price consideration regarding Syntec...I will
certainly reconsider using it in the future as
opposed to Amsoil or Mobil1 for my 4.7L QuadCab.
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/19/2003
19:19:31
| Amsoil = www.american-synthetic-oil.
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Message:
gregor,
I know very little about Golden spectro except that they make a 10w-40 motorcycle oil, and I have seen no Used Oil Analysis so I can't comment.
Without discrediting Mobil1, their oils have been known to shear down (viscosity), and some engines just don't like Mobil1 at all. Try switching to another brand, or a slightly thicker viscosity.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
|
AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
11/19/2003
20:08:57
| Amsoil Comments on Mobil1 Oil Burning
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Message:
gregor,
A few suggestions:
First, try replacing the PCV valve. If the engine has excessive "blow by", oil will be in the engine breathers and PCV system. All that oil ends up in the intake manifold. On start up, a big "slug" of oil is drawn into the cylinders and burnt. Note: There was a recall on PCV valves for some years of the Neon, but I don't recall which years.
Second, Look in your radiator for signs of oil being present. Also, have the head gasket checked for leakage. Neon has had problems with head gaskets and heads - and that is why I suggested you check the radiator. Many of these vehicles with the 4 cylinder 2.0 liter and 2.4 liter engine leak oil due to a bad cylinder head gasket. This can be diagnosed quickly with a visual exterior inspection, and a peak in the radiator.
Third, Have the dealer scan the computer for fault codes.
Fourth, (I hope not) ... but replacing the piston rings may be your only cure.
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For the record (general information),
It is a known fact that GM LS1 engines DO NOT like Mobil1 - the oil simply disappears. A lot of LS1 owners have problems when running 5w-30 Mobil1. Mobil1 seems to burn more oil in their engines than other oils. Many report that their consumption goes down 50% when they switch to other oils! Oil burning is a design problem with these engines to begin with (read more below), but for some reason (possibly it's thinner nature) Mobil1 seems to make it worse for them. Not in every case though.
Mixing 15w-50 and 10w-30 Mobil 1 is a very popular "fix-it" recipe for the LS1 guys. Those that burn oil with straight 10w-30 have found that a mixture of 2 quarts of 15w-50 to 4 quarts of 10w-30 almost completely stops their oil burning! Disclaimer: I do not know if this would work in your situation (Neon), and I take no responsibility if it does not work.
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Additional information for those with the LS1 engines:
Burning oil was a GM engine design problem, and not totally a Mobil1 problem. Ring flutter and low tension oil rings. GM has totally redesigned the piston/ring kit which fixes it. Some LS1 engines went through oil like water at a New York Marathon, others use none. Very sloppy design & testing on GM's part. Bottom line: Quite a few people found that consumption on these engines was a lot worse when using Mobil1.
The PCV system is part of the problem on the LS1, it sucks oil into the intake. But it's not the only source of the oil consumption. I know many guys who tried the PCV fix, and even when the oil is not sucked into the intake anymore, their consumption is still pretty bad, due to the rings.
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Last, but not least gregor, ... if the above does not fix the problem try switching to the following.
10w-40 - Pennzoil High-Mileage
5w-40 - Rotella-T Synthetic
... or ... 5w-30 Amsoil - which should work great - ESPECIALLY with the much lower NOACK volatility %.
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Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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