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Steve_318GC
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2003
14:23:42
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 Subject: 318 cid owners with pinging (long)
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problem. Anyone have a fix? I think I do...
I have a '93 Jeep GC with the 318 and it has had an intermittant pinging problem that has driven me nuts. There are no error codes stored, O2 sensor was replaced prior to a smog (no help but smog passed) and cat replaced at the same time.
While tuning another car of mine I had a pinging problem on it as well (everything working fine on it) which I was able to fix by doing 2 things:
1) Insulate the fuel rails with an insulating tape
2) Add a inline fuel cooler.
# 2 may not be practical on the jeep or dakota's but #1 is definately do-able.
Details on the other car... may make sense.
'93 bmw 325is with hi-po chip. Recommend gas is 93 octane, CA gas is cr*p at 91 octane but that wouldn't stop me... so I insulated a portion of the intake route which helped significantly but I still had pinging, then I decided to insulate the fuel rail to prevent the heat soak during stop and go traffic (which is where I think the 318 pinging is starting to happen).
I then took it another step further by doing a crude experiment with fuel temps (not hard in Sacramento) by running the fuel tank level down to near empty on a hot day -after the car was out in the sun for most of the day so the fuel is somewhat hot, and noticed significant pinging (hot gas expands) on a 100+ day. I then went to fill it up (using union76 BTW) and re-tested it (drove it hard) and there was no pinging.
So with this in mind I decided to add the fuel cooler to reduce the fuel temp (cold fuel = dense fuel = richer mixture, which will further reduce the intake charge temp) as much as possible to eliminate as much pinging as possible.
The end result was ALL pinging under all conditions was eliminated. Even on the 105+ days in stop and go traffic.
Soooo, has anyone done this already?
Is there another fix?
TIA -steve
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jdllizard
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2003
14:30:43
|  RE: 318 cid owners with pinging (long)
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Look down into the Throttle Body, if you see oil or notice that you are using oil, it is the plenum pan gasket under the intake manifold. Very common problem on 318's and definately causes pinging.
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Steve_318GC
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2003
16:04:37
| Yes, definately on 1 side...
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just happend to look at it the other day and noticed that there was oil on one side of the manifold. Have you done this fix before? If so R&R time?
Steve
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jdllizard
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2003
21:02:51
| RE: 318 cid owners with pinging (long)
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Is the oil on the outside of the manifold? If so that is a different gasket and woudn't cause pinging. If you looked straight down the throttle body and saw oil inside, then it is the plenum/belly pan gasket. When this gasket goes bad it creates a huge vaccum leak that causes the pinging. You wont see any oil under the truck or see it smoke but you will go through about a quart every 1000 miles. I did mine myself with no help in a day, gasket kit to fix it was $28 at O'Reillys. If you search this site I'm sure there is plenty of tips on how to do it. Its not to hard if you do most your own mechanical work.
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RT Mark
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2003
00:46:37
| RE: 318 cid owners with pinging (long)
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Steve,
How did you insulate the fuel rails? Just wrap them in what and from where?
How did you make a "Fuel Cooler" device?
I get the same 91 crap gas you get and want to try these things.
Thanks
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Steve_318GC
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2003
19:32:34
| RE: 318 cid owners with pinging (long)
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http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=search.asp&type=bykeyword&searchtype=both&part=fuel+cooler
http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?target=search.asp&type=bykeyword&searchtype=both&part=thermo+tape
Wrap both fuel rails above the injectors and insulate (thermo sleeve) on the metal fuel lines comming to the fuel rails. The idea is to prevent the fuel rails from heating the fuel prior to injection.
Not sure on how to install the fuel cooler on the jeep since I didn't do that part yet and am not sure I need to. My pinging was only noticeable after driving on hot days and after stopping for a brief period... heat soak on the fuel rail.
Also not mentioned in the previous post by me was if your trying to improve performance, you could also insulate the shield to help reduce the heat soak in the CAI (cold air intake) area, this will help with off the line performance.
Sound nuts I know, but with the bmw being on the ragged edge, it's easy to see the improvements. If it helps there, it will help on you ride.
-steve
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Walter
Dodge Dakota
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8/18/2003
11:30:26
| RE: 318 cid owners with pinging (long)
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Steve do the check that jdllizard recommended, also take the breather tube off the air hat (it goes to the driver side valve cover) and feel for any kind of suction, if there is suction you have a blown Plenum gasket. They made the gasket out of paper and they don't stand up to much abuse. I just made the repair on my 99 318 and the pinging has gone away. The performance of the engine has returned to like new performance, Love it. It will take you depending on your abilities from 3 - 4.5 hours. I didn't just replace the gasket, I got the after market aluminum plat from
http://www.apsprecision.com/ it came about 5 days after ordering it. It's pricey at $107.00 shipped but worth the cost. Your only problem will be getting the intake gasket kit for it. I it at the dealership. I fond them from $52.00 - 62.00 and they come with intake bolts and that is the ONLY way the will sell them, you can find a kit at Napa that comes without the bolts for around $35.00 but the choice is yours. Take it slow if you have not worked much on cars but you can do it.
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Steve_318GC
Dodge Dakota
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8/19/2003
10:51:58
| RE: 318 cid owners with pinging (long)
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Thanks to all for the input, Sad day though, after wheeling in the Sierra's I became the victim of a loose TB stud that found it's way into the intake and yes into a cylinder OUCH!!!
Needless to say the motor is dead. I found another already and the posts on this thread help me to ID this failure on the motor I bought (got a discount) which is good, so I can do the swap before I install it.
Since I have the motor out, is there any other fix that I should be aware of?
Now would be the time to do it.
Tonight the fun begins... LOL waaaa ;-)
-Steve
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