| From | Message |
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/20/2002
17:16:49
|
 Subject: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Are there any 10 or 11 second 360 owners that can get it down that far without NOS? Just curious...
|
cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/20/2002
18:09:49
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
I have an 11 second 340 but not in a Dakota, in my Duster and its normaly aspirated
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/20/2002
19:22:07
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Thats sweet, Ill bet ya have alot of fun in that thing :)
But I just dont understand with the 360... Everyone i know with a 360 (All R/T guys) can only get low 12's and thats with NOS... And im thinking... No that doesnt sound right at all... A decent sized V8 should be able to get as low as the 11's or maybe 10's without NOS. Hell I know some GrandNational guys that have broke into the 8's and 9's without NOS and those are V6 guys. So anyone with a 360 or anyone with a logical explanation why nobody seems to be able to get any faster than that with it... Or is it just R/T 360's that are having that problem?
|
Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/20/2002
19:32:59
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
There are some Super Stock Dakotas in NHRA that use a naturally aspirated 360s to run 9's. In the more streetable "stock" class there are a couple Dakotas in the 11's. It would take a lot of work to get a street truck into the 11's w/o nitros or a forced induction, but allowing a blower or better yet a turbo and it shouldn't be too hard. Has anybody done it yet? I don't think so but it is certainly possible.
|
Duner
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/20/2002
19:36:07
| They're TRUCKS!
IP: Logged
Message:
Most people that buy trucks buy them for a reason. Usually that reason involves some type of utilitarian use. Trucks aren't really the best platform to start with if you want to go fast anyway. They're heavy with the weight in the wrong place and aren't very aerodynamic either. I think that's a logical enough explanation right there. How many street trucks would you expect to be in the 10s or 11s? Not just 360 ci trucks but trucks in general. You would probably see quite a few 11 second trucks if they could get down to car weight.
Power adders are power adders. What's the difference between Nos or Turbos or Blowers? They're all power adders. You're trying to compare apples to grapefruits.
|
cudashoe
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/20/2002
19:52:44
|  RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Now my Duster is a stripped down racecar. Fiberglass fenders/hood. No interior. I'm running the 5.09 lift cam, 11-1 pistons. 850 Holley. 3500 stall, 4 30s with 26 inch tires, ect. But again I have really reduced the weight. You would have to due the same to get a Dak to run that fast and keeping it normaly aspirated. Does anyone remember the Mopar action article "Cut your ETs by 5 seconds for under a $100"? They cut up a 413 Imperial, started off running in the 17's, they ended up with just a motor on a frame and were running 12's when they were done.
|
reddak318
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/20/2002
22:36:28
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
If you want to run fast you have to go carberated. The fuel injection is just impossible to figure out. All the fast Dakota's are carb'd. Another thing is traction. With a pickup you dont have any weight over the rear wheels. Just my 5.2 cents
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/20/2002
23:10:27
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Turbo or Blowers I dont mind... NOS is too hard on your engine if you ask me. If its possible with turbo's or blowers than im happy with that.
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/20/2002
23:12:40
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Iv always been a big fan of the saying "Bottles are for babies" :P
|
Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
11:32:56
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
I say it's possible naturally aspirated, but just wait till that twin turbo kit is out from speedtweaks and I bet a bunch of R/T's end up in the 11's. The Grand Nationals have been out a long time and have a lot of their weight over the rear tires but when they were pure stock they were only .5 sec quicker in the 1/4 mile then a stock RC R/T. They were the fastest production car in 88 but everything was pretty slow in 88. A WRX is much faster stock then a GN, just wait till the aftermarket has 10 years to play with them! There is a lot of potential in a turbo motor but as for it being easier on the motor then NOS I would disagree. If the NOS is built right 100 extra HP is 100 extra HP and you don't use the power all the time like a turbo does, or build tons of heat. I just don't like the idea of filling, opening valves, and arming a system. I just want to hit the gas and go.
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
13:14:24
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
87 was the last year for the GN's... A stock 87 GN could run 0-60 in 4.9 seconds. Its stock quarter time was 13.5 to 13.6... And thats not even the GNX which had 30 more Horsepower than the GN.
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
13:25:02
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
I quoted that from this site... just to make sure there wasnt any question about it.
http://www.gnttype.org/general/basicinfo.html
"OK, so how fast is this beast, anyway? The 0-60 times are seldom discussed any more. A car that is capable of high 13 to low 14 1/4 mile times
straight from the dealer’s lot by definition gets to 60 mph "damn quick". Car and Driver reported a 4.9 0-60 blast that claimed the title "Fastest
US Production Car of 1987". The beauty is that these cars can be "tweaked" so easily, that it is common for 12 second TRs to prowl the streets
across the country. That’s why so many of them have appeared at drag strips over the past 2 decades. It also helps that the GM engineers put a
lot of the "tweakable" things in plain sight or readily-accessed locations."
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
13:36:00
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
The guy who is going to help me out by drawing up the plumbing for the 360 turbo package is number 4 on this list "Kent Rudbeck"... 7.8 @ 176 mph. He's the guy my dad works with at Chrystler in newcastle indiana and has been good friends with for a while.
http://www.gnttype.org/members/times.html
|
Anthony G
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
14:44:27
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
I could be wrong, but the TTA(1987 Turbo Trans Am) was also very fast if not faster 0-60 in 4.7 seconds. Yes they had the same engine as the GN, but the TTA had better aerodynamics which where used in salt flat racing of 200+. Not sure which one was lighter GN or TTA. They have strong built blocks that can handle 20+ psi. 11 bolts for only 3 cylinders. Rated 250hp HA LOL more like 350hp but Chevy couldn't admit that a Trans Am had more power than their Corvette.
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
17:25:12
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
89 Turbo Trans-Am(which had the 87 GN turbo 6 engine) Paced the Indianapolis 500 that year... First car ever to pace the race that didnt need to be modified :). Yes anthony those things were bad mothers. Thats the thing too about the corvette... See the ZR1 came out in 90' well see back then the ZR1 was supposed to be gods gift to corvetting :P, like the Zo6 is today. The thing that was funny as hell was when Car and Driver tested the 2 cars against each other... The TTA not only beat it out in the 1/4 but it also took numero uno in top end :). Boy you better beleive that it pissed general motors off lol.
|
Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
17:50:12
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
As far as the 87 GN goes I've never seen a showroom stock road test report under 14 seconds. Motor Trend only got a 6.0 0-60 and a 14.73@95.1 mph with their 87 GN. There were only about 500 GNX's and 30 HP only gets you about .3 sec in the 1/4. I'll bet it too, in pure showroom stock form, wouldn't crack into the 13's. Now many people's definition of stock is different, look at the NHRA "stock" Dakotas running 11's. I'm talking the way they come from the showroom floor with no changes. The 89 Turbo Trans AM Motor trend got a 5.1 0-60 and a 14.18@98.86 in the 1/4. in 1990 MT got a ZR1 to go 0-60 in 4.7 sec and the 1/4 mile in 13.13@110 MPH. I goota think the ZR1 will plain smoke any stock GN or TTA. It took the Viper coming along in 1993 to unseat the ZR1 as king of US production cars (which it ran a 4.4 0-60 and a 12.8@110 MPH 1/4 mile). I agree the turbo 6 motor is easy to tweak but its just not fair comparing a stock to a modified car. Pure stock the GN's were fast for the 80's but not compared to the cars of the 60's, 70's and 90's, 00's. It is something to be the fastest of the whole decade (besides the same powertrain in a lighter 89 firebird), but when the whole decade pretty much sucked it puts an asterick next to the win.
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
19:56:41
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
See the amazing thing about the GN was that it had as much power as some of the faster cars do today. I'd like to see some of those articles your talking about buddy. Iv seen a stock TTA and a stock ZR1 go down the strip with my own eyes. The TTA had a tenth of a second on it and the ZR1 ran a 12.6... go figure that one. If a stock GN runs high 13's (which iv already proven if you would read the article) Then its obvious that the GNX would be breaking into the low 13's if it has 30 more horse. They didnt hype those GN's up for nothing. It had over a full second on any car comming out of the 80's and had the power of a late 60 early 70's muscle car... Thats why they talk about how much of a technical marvel it is holding its own weight even today... And as far as many different peoples deffinition of stock goes... You dont go into a showroom and buy an NHRA Prostock vehicle. You know perfectly well what i mean when i say "Stock".
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
20:47:17
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Here is Car and Drivers specs for the 1986 buick GN
--------------------------------------------------
http://home.adelphia.net/~nickjl/gnweb/gnspecs.jpg
--------------------------------------------------
You'll notice 0-60 in 4.9 and a 1/4 of 13.9... thats just the 86 too... the 87's were supposed to have 10 more horse.
-------------------------------------------------
http://my.ohio.voyager.net/~rowilson/story.htm
-------------------------------------------------
My lordie... that Bulky peice of 80's junk called the GNX just ran 0-60 in 4.7 and ran the 1/4 in 13.5? is that what it says hersbird?? Im having trouble reading it. Well i guess you were right on one thing... the 30 extra horse did give it about .4 extra seconds...
And i managed to dig up info on the car and driver issue that had the TTA and the ZR1 in it. "1989, issue 6" The only problem is you cant actually get in to read the actual articles because its a collection of old "Hotrod", "Car and Driver", "Motor Week" and "Road and Track" Issues from the past 20 years... All of them are 5 dollars a peice... I would almost think about ordering one just to prove you wrong.
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
20:57:46
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
.5 seconds faster than a regular cab R/T?? I have a club cab R/T so... lets see every hundred pounds is a tenth of a second slow down... So i'd be running only .7 seconds slower than a GN which would put a stock club cab at 14.6?? Hell a regular cab at 14.4?? Then that means the R/T's are quicker than the 4.7 5 speeds like you guys go on about if thats the way you want to play the game hersbird.
|
Duner
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
21:23:19
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
A compilation of magazine times.
http://www.dataflo.net/~dkunesh/Muscle.htm
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
21:57:44
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Well... I guess you can beleive what source you want... Personally I would be more prone to beleive the official web sites... And i noticed they didnt even spell buick right "Buich" so. *shrugs* i think iv done my homework for the evening :P
|
Duner
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/21/2002
22:59:45
| Official Site?
IP: Logged
Message:
My only question would have to be which ones are the "official" ones?
Would this be an "official" Dakota web site?
If so, what's the "official" performance numbers for a '99 Dakota RT? ;>)
|
xplikt
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/22/2002
03:00:11
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
"'Cut your ETs by 5 seconds for under a $100'? They cut up a 413 Imperial, started off running in the 17's, they ended up with just a motor on a frame and were running 12's when they were done."
Why not just build your frame out of cardboard!
|
alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/22/2002
09:22:52
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Personally I think ya'll need to pack your f_ckin' sh!t up and drive your a$$ to the drag strip. There are several things you will learn there:
1. No car is EVER as fast as you think it is. EVER.
2. Turbo Buicks are faster than R/T's in almost every case. I don't want to hear about your buddies and their supercharged R/T etc etc. Deal with it. It's a pick-up truck.
3. Magazines lie all the damn time. They have neither the time nor the money to back up every performance claim they publish. Therefore they publish the performance estimate supplied to them by the very optimistic factory marketing group.
4. A reliable 10-second car (naturally aspirated, not a bottle-fed bomb) is a beast. It's expensive to build, expensive to drive regularly, and just barely streetable. Believe it.
Now, do what I said and GET THEE TO A TRACK. I don't care how long it takes to drive there, I don't care about how much money it takes. If you ain't got time slips to show, you got no point to prove.
Now ssshhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuut UP!
|
kota on 20s
GenIII
2/22/2002
12:55:08
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
my friend at work took his 87 T-type to the track, and with a chip and aftermarket intercooler he ran a low 14 (i think it was a 14.2) on street tires. he couldnt leave with any boost, or he would just fry the tires.
he is really into the GN's and he admits that even the GNX's were in the 14's stock.
Eric
|
Hersbird
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/22/2002
13:33:20
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
OK, I'll admit that it looks like Car and Driver did get a GN to crack 13's on a road test. But that doesn't dispute the fact that motor trend couldn't get better then 14.7! Sometimes differnet magazines use correction factors for altitude and weather conditions which I think we all know can be very wrong sometimes. Maybe car and driver corrected their times and motor trend did not. You are way off saying a CC can't run in the 14's pure stock and that a RC R/T can't run mid 14's stock. The 4.7 5-speed is not faster then the R/T it is about a dead heat stock to stock. With the best stock times being had by R/T's. I didn't say a PRO stocker I just said there are NHRA stocker Dakotas running 11's, the pro stock Dakotas run like 7's. No you can't go down to the dealer and buy a NHRA stock Dakota, but then again you can't do it with the GN anymore either. The other fastest car of the late 80's was the 5-speed 5.0 mustang which could run low 14's stock as well. Still they are nothing compared to the under $30000 stuff that can run low 13's right off the floor with no turbo at all. Don't get me wrong, I graduated in 88 and the 87 GNX is still one of my top ten all time dream cars. But I'm a little more realistic about what they could run stock. I do think that the big magazines do actually test their cars but not always at a drag strip with timing lights, and they correct the times differently. I do know High Performance Mopar did run a CC R/T down a real dragstrip, in showroom stock condition, and got an uncorrected time of 15.1, in weather that would have probably corrected it to high 14's. I guess I don't understand what your point of this whole thread is besides trying to bad mouth the R/T's on the sly.
|
Muzzy
GenIII
2/23/2002
10:11:50
|  RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Alex has some good points. I had a Mustang that ran 10.03 NA in the 1/4 mile. I had $12K in the motor with me doing all the machine work and labor. It wasn't no 5.0 either. I had a stroked 12.5:1 windsor motor. I was running Dart heads ported as far as they could go. I ran a .695 lift 288 duration mechanical roller cam. Manley severe duty over sized valves. K-Motion triple springs with 200lbs of seat pressure. I built my own custom fuel injection using a DFI computer that I had to programed myself. Let's just say the only thing left that was Ford when I was done was the body and block. I cut enough weight off the car to get it down to 2700lbs without me in it.
In 2 years of running points at my local drag strip every weekend, I never saw one car, truck or bike run what the magazines said it would. I used to laugh at other Mustang guys with their few bolt on goodies that thought they could run 10's or 11's. I would see them running 13's or 14's.
...and, my Mustang was far from a daily driver. Race gas only, 4800 stall converter, re-adjust rockers every 20 passes, check valve spring seat pressure every 50 passes...on & on. Lots of HP has a price.
You are going to need some major HP to push a 4000LB truck down the drag strip in 10 seconds. I am willing to bet you wouldn't be driving it to work every day, unless you live 1 mile from your work...he he.
Now with a turbo or supercharger....maybe.
-Muzzy
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/27/2002
20:08:41
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Hersbird my point is why is it so tough to get this thing to run low 12's or under without NOS?? its a big 360. I know its no stroker motor or hemi but with the right ammount of tweaking and a blower of somesort there is no reason someone cant get it into the 11's... Guys can get there turbo6 syclones into the 11's without NOS. Surely there is a Lightening guy out there who has broken 11's without NOS.
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/27/2002
20:22:43
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Hersbird... you are sorely mistaken by saying the fastest car of the late 80's was the 5 speed 5.0... My dad has a 5.0 5 speed he bought off the showroom floor in 92... (he also owns an 87 GN which he bought new as well) There was no comparison at all then between the 2 cars and there is no comparison now. As a matter of fact Iv driven both cars and i can tell you first hand that there isnt any comparison. And yes I have a CC R/T if your wondering why I posted this thread in the first place. Iv rode in my aunts 30th anniversery trans-am. Its obviously much faster than my R/T and the mustang but I can tell you from experience which car is faster between the GN and that.
|
Big59er
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/27/2002
20:26:48
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
Look, the bottom line is... I just wanted to know why there arent any 10 or 11 second NOSless R/T's out there... I didnt say blower'less or turbo'less... Just NOSless.
|
kota on 20s
GenIII
2/27/2002
20:40:37
| RE: 10 second 360 owners?
IP: Logged
Message:
well a dakota is aerodynamicly challenged, as well as being over weight.
cyclones and GN's can go faster because, the engine was built with boost in mind. the R/T's cant run as much boost because since the are v8's, they have a bigger space between head bolts thus blowing head gaskets if overboosting.
some people run nos with a SC because the nos supercools the intake charge and gives more power.
im sure you can make a 5.9 R/T run 11's, but you would have to go through the engine and make it stronger. with less money, you could make a car go faster, and that is what most people do
Eric
|
| | P 1 Next Page>> |
