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Sephiroth
Dodge Dakota
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6/20/2003
18:23:26
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 Subject: Horsepower Tweaks...
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Well, I've done a lot of things to my engine already, but I want the max horsepower without killing my fuel mileage, and without physically modifying the engine (ie: adding a turbo or super). Here's my current loadout.
1995 Dakota CC 4x4
V8 Magnum 5.2L (381)
K&N Air Filter
Tornado Air
Bosch Platinum 4 Plugs
10mm Gold Wires
Distributor Cap/Rotor With Gold Contacts
Fram X2 Oil Filter
K&N Fuel Filter
3:92 Rear End (No clue on front)
85w-140 Gear Oil In Both Ends
15w-40 Long Life Penzoil
Now what else coudl i do to give the truck more horses or better fuel mileage, or both? My brother is paying for a Flowmaster I will have in the next month or so. I am getting dual exhaust with 2.25" pipes most likely. After that is there anything else I can do to improve performance aside from engine mods like turbos or supers? Perhaps a performance computer chip??
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islanderpc
Dodge Dakota
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6/20/2003
19:02:39
|  RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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yeah rip out the "tornado air" toss the platinums for 98cent autolites not sure about the "gold" cap and rotor cheap brass does excellent.
flowmaster...how common.
duals will help..headers will help...choose a throttle body.
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FastDak
Dodge Dakota
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6/20/2003
21:03:56
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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just so you know, dual flowmasters will NOT increase HP.. they may sound/look good, but will not improve performance one bit
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gotanRT
Dodge Dakota
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6/21/2003
01:11:47
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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dual exhaust does help gain ponies with a combination of other mods...
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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6/21/2003
01:39:04
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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true dual exhaust will help. Ditch the Tornado air restriction, and get a K&N FIPK kit. Ditch the Pnnzoil which is slowly clogging up your engine for some Castrol syntec, and run a lighter wieght oil. It takes less hp to pump thinner oil. Switch to synthetics in the differentials. Stop using a FRAM filter and buy a good filter. Drop in a 180 degree thermostat. When you do the exhaust, open it up to 2.5". Get a Mopar PCM, run some fuel injector cleaner through it for a couple tanks and don't run premium gas.
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SMO
Dodge Dakota
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6/21/2003
02:35:19
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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You put dual exhaust on any vehicle, your going to gain a few horses even if you don't have mods. Proven fact. My friend got his stock 2001 Silverado 5.3L and put dual flowmasters, then had it dyno'd. It showed an increase of 8 horsepower, so it does help.
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teamfast
Dodge Dakota
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6/21/2003
08:49:59
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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A decent set of underdrive pullies will give you some kick without having to open the engine up. Check out ASP
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dakota47
Dodge Dakota
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6/21/2003
12:46:08
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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hey seph, i believe your front axle ratio would be the same as your rear
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FastDak
Dodge Dakota
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6/21/2003
15:46:25
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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On a stock Dakota with no engine mods, putting on flowmaster duals will cause you to lose low end torque guaranteed. If you want duals, you need to run "true duals".
With engine mods, enlarging your system to a single 3" pipe / 3" cat / 3" muffler is about the best way to help increase HP. Most other exhaust setups are just for the looks/sound and won't make much difference HP wise one way or another.
Flowmasters are cheaply made and will rust out quicker than most. They sound good and loud, but thats about it. Performance wise they're crap.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
6/21/2003
16:18:48
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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i just switched from a single 3" exhaust with no cat to a dual 2 1/2", flanged cats (they can be taken out and put back in at will), into a "X" pipe, and into 2 spintech mufflers, with a side exit. and it feels about the same HP. (yes even in the upper RPM's)
and thats with my supercharger, M1, 1.7's, TB, headers,...ect i have only driven it for about 30 miles, so i dont know if the pcm needs to adjust to it or what, but so far this is my take on it.
if anyone with a CC dak wants to buy my new system, i might want to sell it.
~Eric
Single cam, non-VTEC
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Sephiroth
Dodge Dakota
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6/22/2003
12:32:17
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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Whoa, plenty of replies. Let me get started here.
First off I'd like to ask about the lower-weight oil. I am running thicker oil because the engine is right at 100k miles. I want the engine to last pretty much forever. I don't race the engine at all, but I do occasionally haul my Bayliner with the truck. So what oil would give me the longest life? I plan on switching to synthetic Mobil1 in about 2000 miles when it's time for a change. Also, what oil-filter would you recomend, a Wicks?
As for the Flowmaster, I am not looking to make my truck sound like a big fart going down the road (and I have heard some that sound just like that). I am looking primarily for a super-rich, super-deep tone. Ever hear a locomotive up close? Now you know the type of sound I'm looking looking for, but not quite as loud as a loco! What would you guys recomend for that in place of a Flowmaster?
Now for the TB. Wouldn't replacing my TB require me to break open the top part of my engine (where the two-barrel is) and get new seals and all? May sound like a dumb question but I am just now really getting into engines and that's why I want to stay away from mods that require me from taking the engine apart. At least for now. You shoulda' seen my stress-level when I had to remove the alternator, lol!
Finally, references to my Tornado Air. I didn't want to get a FIPK because unless I am mistaken, I'd have to replace most of the TB and I think it said something about the injectors. The Tornado did increase my HP slightly and it even helped my gas mileage a little. Keep in mind that I don't want to do anything that requires actually taking my engine apart, because I may not be able to get it back together.
Thanks for all the information, everybody. I'll check back in a day or two and see what I get in response to this. Oh and as for the Autolites, LMAORTOFL! Autolites don't do me a bit of good. I gained a bit of HP switching from Autolites to Champions, and now that I see how crappy Champs are, I switched to the Bosch's, and I swear it feels like I have a new engine under the hood. It also idles smoother. No offense intended here, just my personal experience that Bosch Platinum 4's are the best I've found yet. Oh and they come with a three or five year warranty, and considering I replace my plugs every six months, I get mine free each time. Not too bad, eh?
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Brihutch3
Dodge Dakota
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6/22/2003
13:02:50
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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With the filtercharger you don't need to touch the TB. You only have to remove the stock airbox, and tubing. As for the tornado, it's poop.
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LTU Dak
Dodge Dakota
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6/22/2003
15:26:07
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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If you're really nervous, then by a Haynes or Chilton manual. Most things that seem really hard, really aren't. For instance, a throttle body swap can take a rookie about 30 min. All you do is unplug (and labeling's not a bad idea either if you don't have an excellent memory, though there aren't that many wires) all of the sensors, disconnect the throttle cable, unbolt it and reattach the new one. Little more complicated than that it's definitely not rocket science.
A cold air intake takes ~5min and removing it is the hard part! A throttle body is good for about 15HP and 30-35ftlbs of torque and costs about $300 for a remanufactured one. If you just want to browse for things then here are a few sites
krcperformance.com
hughesengines.com
mopartsracing.com
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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6/22/2003
16:50:44
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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The only part of the TB you have to touch with the K&N GenII swap is the hold down bolt. The K&N tube comes with a new one. The TB, you can swap without having to replace any seals. It sits right on top the intake manifold and really isn't part of the engine. Just a valve to let air into the engine. You don't need to do anything with your injectors. Where you read that I don't know. The Flowmaster will not give you the sound you want, and you can't expect your motor to sound like a diesel locomotive. I woudl suggest a Spintech, but that's just my personal choice. On the sprk plugs, I have ran pretty much al the different choices for our trucks, including the Bosch +4's and the basic Bosch copper cores, the Autolites(both stock heat range and the 3923), and the stock Champions. The on'es I found work the best for me are the stock Chapmions.
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hsdracing
Dodge Dakota
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6/22/2003
16:54:54
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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Thicker oil would be best for longer life of engine, I have a 94 Dakota.. for 3 years I towed a 6000 lbs. racecar trailer. I now have 218,000 miles and my truck still is running strong, almost all on my truck is still original parts under hood. I am using 20/50 Castrol.
As for Fram, Dodge will not honor any Warrantee on New Purchased Vehicles if you have troubles and it comes in shop with a Fram Oil Filter. They will dishonor Warrantee Completely. They claim Fram has Problems with the Passages in the Oil Filter. I used Fram once before and it gave me low oil pressure, I now use Wix and never a problem. Best Recommendation is either Wix or Mopar oil Filter.
In my experience plugs do not do much for me on ponies but I have found that some are better lasting than others/and makes the truck idle differently, warrantee on replacement is a plus and bosch is a good brand as well. Champions didnt last very long on my truck.
Usually if you do cheap on the vehicle its gonna run cheap
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Sephiroth
Dodge Dakota
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6/22/2003
20:11:28
|  RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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I've heard of Wix before, so when I change the oil next time I'll try one. Can't hurt anyway.
I didn't know a new TB was so easy to install. I was thinking I'd have to remove the entire top half of my engine where I could see down into the crankcase.
I have heard from several friends who have added ram air kits (though I am not sure if this is the same thing) that say they didn't do much for performance on their V8 trucks, while I have friends who put them on V6 model trucks that did get a big benefit from it. If I start looking into a cold air induction/ram air kit, would it be worth it on a V8? If it adds less than 10 or 20hp, it would seem a waste to me.
Thanks again for all the info!
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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6/23/2003
04:47:08
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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Keep running your stock air intake system then and keep the air restricted. 10hp gain is at least half a 1/10 in the 1/4. And from what I've seen on my truck(just a little 'ol 360) the K&N Gen II intake works a lot better than anything but a raim air hood with functional scoop running 13x3 open element air filter with K&N Xtremem lid.
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Scott
Dodge Dakota
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6/23/2003
09:33:03
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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I'd keep the stock air cleaner and put a K&N drop in filter in it. Then follow your air tube to the front of the truck. There's a plate in the grille covering the tube's intake. Pull off that plate and you have Ram Air! I have a '94 5.2 that I ran an open element 14x3 K&N on for years. Decided to try the Ram Air approach and at least in the Gen II's it works better and isn't anywhere near as loud (I like stealth myself). You aren't pulling in preheated engine compartment air by taking it off the truck's nose. In my experience it works well!
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Scott
Dodge Dakota
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6/23/2003
09:36:12
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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Oh yeah, ditch the Tornado too...
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Jeremy
Dodge Dakota
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6/23/2003
13:29:06
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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I thought running 20w50 is a sure way to KILL your engine. Oil that thick will surely scratch your entire engine into little itty bitty bits and pieces by the time the truck gets warmed up. My brother used to use that thick stuff and when he would crank his car in the morning (40 degrees farenheit) it would knock and rattle like it was falling apart (monte carlo, 50k). I told him to use 10w30 and as soon as he changed it sounded smooth. Now it burns this thin oil cause of all that thick oil he used to put in hurt the engine so bad. But its better to keep adding 10w30 every 2k miles then to use oil designed to go into tractors and rearends. Sepiroth, plantinum plugs are for long life not performance, they do not conduct as good as copper, silver, or brass. Conductance in the electrical system is key to power. YOu want to run copper or silver plugs to maximise horspower but they won't last as long as plantinum, but hey you change them every 6 months anyways. Tornado and tb spacers claim to fame only would really work on a tbi (injector in throttlebody) truck where the fuel and air have to mix to better atomize. Your mpi (injectors in intake manifold) so its just like a big turd laying in your intake pipe. Sell it on ebay, another sucker will buy it. I think duals will hurt your truck cause it is rather stock and you don't need that much exhaust it will kill your lowend. Kota on 20's is supercharged and he needs all the air improvement he can get. Pennzoil use to have parafin wax in it (don't know if it still does) and this stuff is known for turning to sludge. Pull your valve covers and check underneath. A flowmaster will not make you lose power but you won't gain as much as the higher priced newer design mufflers. Thats why flowmasters sound so great is they have baffles that still restrict your exhause alot and cause it to rumble. Your best bet for performance imo is to get a mopar pcm, 1.7 roller rockers (requires mopar performance valve covers), the bigger holley tb, msd coil and change all your platinum, gold bling bling to real conductors, and your choice of any muffler you like. Maybe later on you can add some doug thorley headers. Anything above this and you'll be getting into head, motor, power adder territory.
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keith_rj
Dodge Dakota
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6/24/2003
00:19:29
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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still new...
whats a tornado air? cats (in regard to exhaust)? FIPK?
and what is the HP diff. between havin an air intake pipe and not?
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Simple
Dodge Dakota
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6/24/2003
13:35:06
|  RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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I am Simple, and I must come through and make corrections to everything I see incorrect. It is my nature. Simply put, I am right and you are wrong if I am correcting you. Your are not dumb, nor ignorant, nor stupid, youare Simply wrong.
MPI typically means Multi Point Injection, this means each of your injectors fire seperately, instead of in batches like a chevy TPI. Jeremy, you meant "fuel injected" not MPI.
All mufflers have some kind of baffles or other restriction devices. They do not make them louder, or rumble more. Quite the opposite. They are they to make the exhuast less noisy. They do not pertain to flowmasters, they pertain to mufflers. If a muffler had no restrictive devices, it wouldn't "muffle" to much, it would be a big hollow can with and inlet and outlet.
1.7 Rockers do not require the MP valve covers.
As far as dual exhuast loosing HP or TQ. Bolt on performance mods such as mufflers typically create a peakier HP TQ curve, not simply amplify the entire curve. Very few mods can increase power through the entire powerband. So yes, with just about any muffler, you will loose a few there, gain a few here. However, if you are getting a muffler for performance you will be dissapointed. Get it because it will make your truck sound great.
As for anyone who has a contradicting opinion: Reply to my post as you may, but you are wrong. I am not wrong, I am Simple. Simply put, you are not right, thereby, you are wrong. There is nothing wrong with it. Do nt be ashamed, just understand that if you continue to be wrong, you will Simply be corrected and that is that. Enjoy!
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IntenseDak39
*GenIII*
6/24/2003
14:30:40
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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there is a lot of wrong punctuation use... are you still "Simply put, I am right"?
1998 Regular Cab V6 Auto
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Im simply dum
Dodge Dakota
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6/24/2003
15:03:51
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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Actually, MPI does stand for mulit point injection, but pertains to having one injector for each cylinder(mulitple points of injection) not that the PCM fires each injector individually. You can have a TBI(thottle body injection) with two injectors fire each injector seperatly, but it still wouldn't make it MPI. So before you go and try to correct anyone in the futre, I suggest you simply open up a book, r do a simple search on the internet to get your simple facts straight so you don't look like a simple fool.
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RobertG
Dodge Dakota
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6/24/2003
16:36:56
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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Well, here's whats worked for me:
'96 Dakota SLT 5.2 V8/auto 2wd 152K miles
180 degree stat, 16" electric fan
Accel coil, cap, rotor,
Accel 8 MM wires, NGK U-Groove plugs
10" by 3" K&N, full 3" single exhaust w/flowmaster
Powertrax locker, 3.55 gears
Castrol 10W30 oil, Purolator Plus PL14670 filter
I average 18 MPG, run 15 flat in the quarter. I once caught up to and passed a mustang on the interstate while towing a '92 mitsu eclipse on a towdolly and hauling a clothes washer in the bed.
The only time I have trouble with overheating is when Im stopped in traffic with A/C on in 90+ temps. This is the only downside of using an electric fan.
I plan on asking about other Dak mods myself after I finish working on my other project cars.
I'll let the rest of the guys fight about the oils & mufflers & ferret wheels. Its easier to answer specific questions than ramble on for pages about general design/application issues.
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rj
Dodge Dakota
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6/24/2003
16:41:13
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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...
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Simple
Dodge Dakota
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6/24/2003
17:01:52
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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No simply dum, no. You are incorrect.
As for anyone who has a contradicting opinion: Reply to my post as you may, but you are wrong. I am not wrong, I am Simple. Simply put, you are not right, thereby, you are wrong. There is nothing wrong with it. Do nt be ashamed, just understand that if you continue to be wrong, you will Simply be corrected and that is that. Enjoy!
Simply put.. This applies to you. It's okay, no need to get upset. Simply let it go.
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Simple
Dodge Dakota
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6/24/2003
17:08:04
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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After further researching the matter, I've discovered that I was wrong and you were right. My apologies.
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Jeremy
Dodge Dakota
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6/24/2003
19:52:28
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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Ok, well I don't want to sound anal but I want people to have the correct answers so before putting down all your corrections please make sure they are right. The 1.7 roller rockers will need the aftermarket covers or you have to modify the stock one's by beating the baffles on the under side. FACT. I know for a FACT that my 94 and all newer 5.2l are MPI meaning mulitpoint injection and has one injector per cylinder and works a hella lot better than older chevy TBI setups cause they mix and atomize the fuel and air better. FACT. Newer s-10 4.3's I know come with sequential injection with is similiar to the dakota in having a injector for each cylinder but the firing order of the injectors in relation to cylinder fire has been improved and it makes more power. (The exact -how it all works- I don't know). I also don't know how many other chevy's, fords, or dodge's have sequential injection but I do know it is one of the best injection systems on the market. But MPI still rules TBI. It doesn't matter anyway cause he doesn't need the tornado air swirling device. Also everything I said on the Flowmaster and exhaust systems are true. If you go and read my previous statement. The flowmaster won't gain alot or lose alot. Give or take a few horses. And the sound they have are cause of their special design they use which is a baffle design. A have a dynomax which you can see straight through and has perforations with fiberglass that deaden the exhaust and it doesnt' rumble as much cause its not a baffle design. And I did state that baffles restrict exhaust alot even thought you tried correcting that. I'm sorry but i'm not and don't want to look like an idiot. I'm am one of the people who post when i'm sure I have an answer that will better benefit people who want to know more about their truck. You post when it conflicts with 'the word' you've heard on the streets. With the streets the way they are headed (neons and 2 1/4 inch exhaust going into a 4 1/2 echo pipe) they know nothing about engines. Please simply enroll yourself in an autotech class or get a job at Jiffy Lube so maybe someday you can and will give good advice. Peace
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Simple
Dodge Dakota
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6/24/2003
20:09:22
| RE: Horsepower Tweaks...
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Jeremy,
Although I am sure it is frustrating to be corrected, it must be done. I like you, but the following applies to you as much as it applies to everyone else:
As for anyone who has a contradicting opinion: Reply to my post as you may, but you are wrong. I am not wrong, I am Simple. Simply put, you are not right, thereby, you are wrong. There is nothing wrong with it. Do nt be ashamed, just understand that if you continue to be wrong, you will Simply be corrected and that is that. Enjoy!
Once again I believe I proved all of your points innacurate and misleading. I think we can all rest assured, you have been duely corrected!!!
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dakota_nut
Dodge Dakota
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6/24/2003
20:16:51
| Simple
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is Simple and Empty Minded,
All you do is Repeat yourself I havent seen you Correct really anyone.
Sounds like you need to find a kids playground to have your fun and leave the rest of us in the Mature discussions Alone.
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