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duncan
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
15:09:27
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 Subject: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Word round the campfire (at least in the "4.7 sucks!" forum) is that the 4.7 is hopeless when it comes to performance uprades. That all the mopar pcm's headers, cams, manifolds, and heads, are gonna see you very little gains and a lot of waisted time.
Now, I'm an owner of a 2000 4.7, cc, auto and have the erge to spice it up. I'm not looking for a 10 sec full blown racer, just something to blow my friends stock 4.8 GMC Sierra off the road and shut his mouth for good. And maybe make the odd cocky bastard look foolish from time to time.
What should my first upgrades be? I like the sounds of HO manifold and cam w/ exhaust, and 180 stat. Maybe even a MSD wire and ignition set up to heat up the spark.
Will I get my moneys worth, and is there anyone outhere with similar upgrades to their 4.7 that have proven results?
Any help would be great, any advice welcomed before I dump the bank account to spite my GM friend.
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Daksmack
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
15:40:19
|  RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Air Air and more Air. The 4.7 loves it. As for the "4.7 sucks" thread goes, its just due to the lack of aftermarket parts.
Rich boys love to go to the parts store and say "gimmie a NOS kit, and make it snappy!". Most of the time they dont have to think much about making an engine run better.
All of the mods listed on this site will help a little each (HO stuff, tweeks for cooler temps, IAT adjuster, intakes and cat backs, ported heads, PCM flashes, yadda yadda). With them all done together you could see a good 330hp outta the 4.7. Truth is, this motor is so efficient, mopar didnt leave much left in it. The PCM and sensors hold us back a bit, but we'll get around em.
If money is no object, drop about 4k on a blower...youll be doing 13's in an afternoon of wrench twisting. Duner has a great turbo set up running 11's.
This motor is actually very sound. The bottom end is unreal, the cylinder bores are near race engine specs, this thing is high tech. Its just that aftermarket parts are not ready yet.
I talked with Comp Cams, they have a cam being developed and tested right now. When is it on the shelves? They couldnt say.
Give it some time, we'll see big things from this motor. You just gotta get alil creative.
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DakManiac
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
16:17:07
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Mike Leach PCM flash!!!!! Hands down the best mod for a 4.7. Dyno proven 13hp gain with mine. Other benifits include perfect idle and it eliminated that slight hesitation when you punch it. Also when it shifts at WOT, there is no lag now. Nice sharp shifts.
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j
GenIII
4/15/2003
16:45:30
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Save up and get a kb s/c. It's the best thing for the 4.7 auto. You won't be sorry. If you start porting heads and stuff there's a good chance your engine is going to get peakier than it already is. Okay for a stick, but not an auto imo.
2000 4.7 CC auto, clear corners, Magnaflow catback, Kenne Bell s/c.
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NoDak
Dodge Dakota
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4/15/2003
18:43:52
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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The 4.7 engine is hopeless. My buddy put a TB spacer and 3922 autolites and all synthetic oils and a 170 degree thermostat and a drop in k&n and a jet chip and a MSD ignition and headers and had dual exhaust put on his truck and after spending almost $2000.00 it's still as slow as ever.
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j
GenIII
4/15/2003
18:52:20
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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The stock ignition and headers are fine. Throttle body spacers and jet chips don't do much to help either from what I have read. Colder plugs are not going to give you a lot (if any) hp. Neither is the thermostat. The thermostat is not supposed to give more power, it's just supposed to keep you from losing the power you normally do when the engine heats up.
2000 4.7 CC auto, clear corners, Magnaflow catback, Kenne Bell s/c.
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
4/15/2003
19:13:08
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Well I spent right at $1000 and it's at 14.52 in the 1/4 (street tires and still had all my work stuff in the truck). And what kind of MSD ignition did he use (since there are no plug wires...but you knew that, right NoDak)? The plugs are directly under the coils, so there's not much need for an aftermarket setup yet (unless you can control RPM cutoff with one).
Get creative with the exhaust. Go true duals at 2.25"-2.5" all the way back, put in a x-pipe crossover (all that for $350-$400), get some custom or aftermarket headers ($400-$650), and of course the HO Cams and Intake ($320), or the KRC 206 HO Cams and the HO intake (there are aftermarket intakes in the works).
Get a 70mm throttle body (after the HO Cams and Intake are installed-$220-$450), make your own IAT sensor(Intake Air Temp.) adjuster and relocate the IAT sensor. ($15 for the parts and the relocate is free)
Do the Throttle Position Sensor mod (no more than .8 VDC...mine's at .76 VDC) (Free)
Get a warm air intake (you guys call them a cold air intake, but they aren't really) or something like the shaker hood (a true cold air intake). ($250-$1000)
Change the plugs to Autolite 3923's and gap them at the stock .040 setting, and also use the Robert Shaw 180 T-stat (P/N# GT755-180). ($15 or under)
Buy some 15x8 Dakota wheels and some slicks to run at the track. ($450-$500 tops in price)
Change the rear end gear ratio from 3.55 to at least 3.92's (and if you don't have a limited slip diff, get one if you can afford it).
Buy a NX Nitrous kit for relatively cheap, easy HP. ($500-$750)
Buy an aftermarket S/C and have it installed or install it yourself. (Cost varies-$4500-$6000).
Get nuts and do a custom turbo buildup. (Cost $5000-$10,000).
If you did all the smaller stuff together, you're truck will easily beat the 4.8L GM/GMC trucks. My mods have me at 219-225 RWHP (temp variation). That means I'm making 260+ HP at the crank, which is what I was shooting for at this stage of the game. Next up for me is porting and polishing the stock heads, lightweight pistons, and larger valves from a local custom shop. I'm also having my truck prototyped for custom long tube headers (ceramic coated) with the cats still active (for you tree hugging types), and am going to have my exhaust reworked as well for my eventual turbo application.
It all comes down to how much time and money you have. I'm currently thankful to God that I have some of both!
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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BluDak01
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2003
00:39:13
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Demon Dakota , how do you adjust the tps?
what do you think of the jba headers w/ the krc cams& ho intake. I alrady have true duals w/ 4.5 pipes9no 3rd cat) & a custom bent 3in. intake w/ k&n cone filter.
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2003
08:58:24
|  RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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duncan, you said:
'Maybe even a MSD wire and ignition set up to heat up the spark.'
duncan, no offense, but you don't know much about this motor. You can't use this stuff. It's for the old push rod magnums!
NoDak, you said:
'The 4.7 engine is hopeless. My buddy put a TB spacer and 3922 autolites and all synthetic oils and a 170 degree thermostat and a drop in k&n and a jet chip and a MSD ignition and headers and had dual exhaust put on his truck and after spending almost $2000.00 it's still as slow as ever.'
your 'buddy' (probably you), are a f%cking idiot!!
plugs, TB spacer, jet chip, LOL-what an a$$hole
these don't do anything anyway.
MSD ignition, on a 4.7? really? Is this available?
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2003
09:59:33
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Ya know Demon is right on.
I dynoed my 200 last november and posted 229.4 HP and 301.7 tq to the ground giving me somewhere in the range of 270 FWHP and 355 FWTQ!!!!
All I had was the following:
Home ported 68mm TB ($150 + porting)
Quick D intake (basically a homebrew) $100
Bosch +4 plugs: $50
HO cams and intake $250 (now $400ish)
Gibson dual catback $380.
Remove clutch fan ($free)
Short belt ($15)
So for well under $1000 i made some good gains. Cams are where it is at right now...
Chris
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j
GenIII
4/16/2003
10:09:17
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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I thought I heard that MSD was making something for the 4.7, but I don't think it is much of an improvement over the stock setup.
2000 4.7 CC auto, clear corners, Magnaflow catback, Kenne Bell s/c.
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Brad
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2003
11:17:12
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Where can you buy a PCM flash and how much are they?
Also, can the HO intake and cam be purchased through Dodge and does it void warranty?
Thanks.
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NoDak
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2003
13:35:21
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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If those items don't do anything then why do they sell them? Why do they always appear in people's signature lines? I'm thinking that you guys already have them and are keeping quiet about it. My buddy has some headers on order so now maybe his truck will be fast?
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2003
14:06:39
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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NoDak, what items? the MSD, no big improvement on the 4.7, but the 4.7 is coil on plug anyways.
HO Cams, nice improvemtn, HO intake, I can pass on this next time around, PCM flash, same for this particular engine.
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.alex.
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2003
14:37:26
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Run a search on "4.7 Performance How To" and then read that post. Just because they sell things doesn't mean they work. The people who run QVC and Home Shopping Network get rich off people with your outlook on life.....
If they sell it, they must work..... hahahahahah!
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Truthful
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2003
14:56:34
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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NoDak is an idiotic hunk of turd.
TB spacers are a ricer mod that do nothing. MSD on a 4.7? OK. Spark plugs don't and never have increased HP. They can only restore power lost to misfires and on the 4.7 that doesn't happen. Using the Autolites on a 4.7 is useless ricer crapolla as well. Jet chip? Do a Google search on Jet. More ricer crapolla.
So many 16 year old rice heads think that bolting on a bunch of overpriced, useless crap will add 100+ HP. Turn off High Rev Tunas and that other show with those two trailer park faggots and learn how to make real power.
1) Cubic inches>>>make it bigger.
2) Camshaft>>>Longer duration less overlap
3) Compression>>>Higher is good, lower is bad.
4) Fuel/air>>>get more in.
5) Exhaust>>>get it out.
It's hard to tweak a modern engine like the 4.7 but bolting on a bunch of ricer crapolla ain't going to do it.
Next time you want to flame this board, bring some truth, not a bunch of idiotic ricer crapolla.
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RaZoR1
Dodge Dakota
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4/16/2003
21:02:38
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Get a supercharger!!!! period.... I'm happier thana pig in sh#t with mine.
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02dakotaman
Dodge Dakota
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5/05/2003
12:18:13
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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It must be the way i broke my truck in but i can beat the Gmc trucks stock with a hood lenghth to spare the one thing that the 4.7 needs the most is to breath give it some air is the first thing you need to do.
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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5/05/2003
12:26:16
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Exactly, drive it like you stole it and the 4.7 responds nicely....
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2002QCDak
Dodge Dakota
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5/05/2003
12:52:54
|  RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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If you think the 4.7 is crap, look at last month's Mopar Performance. The 4.7 beat the RT in 6 consecutive races. Yeah, weight was a factor but winning is winning. The 4.7 has potential but is limited in aftermarket parts.
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Mr.H
Dodge Dakota
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5/05/2003
13:29:29
|  RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Cams + Hi-rev valvetrain(7k rpm)
HO Intake
Cold Air Intake (air from outside)
Head porting
$$$Higher Compression/Forged pistons + file fit rings
PCM Flash (KB or Leach)
HO intake
70 mm TB (who cares what kind)
Headers and Exhaust with custom dump (offroad only)
Better head-gaskets w/head resurface for boost
Turbo setup with fuel control
= 400+ rwhp/tq and low 12's
HOPELESS???????
NO.. VETTE EATER!
+100 shot = hi/mid 11's and a toasted NV-3500
It's all about the cash and doin the math.
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47isCrap
Dodge Dakota
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5/05/2003
23:37:47
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Yes it is true...the 4.7 is hopeless....most have not heard the 4.7 is gone in a few years...well not totally anyway, the current 4.7 is being replaced by a 4.7 HEMI version. Inside scoop for those of you who need to know, think it is false, wait two years and come back to this thread....I promise I won't say I told you so...
BTW...newer 4.7 will be stock 280HP.
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Mr.H
Dodge Dakota
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5/06/2003
00:04:42
|  RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Well, they won't be changing much then considering it already is 90% hemi, and seeing as to how it already can make 270 reliable hp/330 tq that's not unlikely, but CRAP????? Please!!!!
ANY STOCK TRUCK THAT RUNS SUB 15 SECONDS IS NOT CRAP, IT JUST PISSES YOU OFF CUZ YOU BOUGHT A 360 THAT'S SLOWER!!!! COME ON MAN!!! WHERE'S THE EDUCATION HERE???? Sure the 5.7 is an awesome engine, but the 4.7 is no slouch, and seeing it's engineering says the high manufacturing cost is due to OVER-ENGINEERING!! I don't know about you, but I like it that way, so what if they're discontinuing it in 2 years, it's proven to be better than a 5.2, and the 5.9 and the 5.2 are already discontinued, so I guess they're CRAP too!!
Some people are thick-headed man... Just ignore ANYBODY that calls the 4.7 crap.
DUNER HAS PROVEN THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN!!!!!!
14 PSI ON STOCK HEAD-GASKETS AND STOCK INTERNALS WITHOUT A PROBLEM!!!! TRY THAT ON A 360 OR 318 FOR A WEEK!!!!! THE 4.7'S GONE A YEAR WITHOUT A HITCH!!!!! SUCK ON THAT!!!
I'LL STAND ALONE AND SAY IT IF I HAVE TO, BUT I DON'T GIVE A FLYIN F_UCK ABOUT CUBIC INCHES TO BE QUITE FRANK... AS LONG AS YOU HAVE 3.0 LITERS YOU'RE FINE. BLOW ON IT A LITTLE AND YOU CAN SMOKE WHAT YOU WANT TO. F1'S ARE RUNNIN 2.8 LITER TT V-8'S IN SOME CASES AND MAKING 1500 RELIABLE HP. THEY CAN MAKE 1400 WITH 1.4 LITERS, AND DON'T SAY THOSE CUBES WONT PUSH A DAK THROUGH THE 1/4 IN 9 SECONDS, CUZ YOU KNOW IT WILL. SURE IT'S NICE TO HAVE A BIG V-8 THAT'S CHEAP TO MOD, BUT IT'S LIKE SOME PEOPLE HIT A LITTLE HITCH IN CRANKING BIG NUMBERS OUT OF A N/A 4.7 AND START CALLING IT CRAP!!!
IT'S ONLY BEEN IN THE DAK FOR WHAT, 4 YEARS? MOST FOLKS DON'T HAVE THE MONEY OR THE BALLS TO DO WHAT'S NECESSARY TO TURN OUT BIG #'S FROM THE MOTOR, AND THAT'S WHY THEY DON'T GET EM.
I AIN'T GIVIN UP ON MINE. WITH THAT BOTTOM END AND A FORGED CRANK, YOURE LOOKIN AT A SERIOUS PLATFORM FOR RAW POWER. IM SURE THAT SETUP COULD HANDLE 1000 HP PLUS. IT'S JUST MATH!!! MAKE IT PUMP AIR FASTER AND MORE EFFICIENTLY!!! THAT'S IT.
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
5/06/2003
15:22:01
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Mr. H, I like your passion on the 4.7L :) It is a great engine, with a great future ahead of it for performance mods.
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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5/06/2003
15:38:05
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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I think that many of us have posted dyno runs that show that the 4.7 responds well to the right mods... How many R/T's put down 230 HP and 300 lbft with only about $900 in mods (half of that in the exhaust alone)... with 287 cubic inches with these numebrs and assuming only 15% loss in the drivetrain gives it 270 HP and 350 lbft at the crank. These are not numbers to laugh at guys...
Chris
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Demon Dakota
DakotaEnthusiast
5/06/2003
16:05:58
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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I couldn't agree more Chris. The 4.7L is an EXTREMELY capable engine, and is very worthy of mods and the aftermarket eye. You can end up making more power and at the same time being more efficient than any 5.2L or 5.9L could ever dream of. It's not that the 5.2L or 5.9L are bad engines. Far from it! But total vehicle purchase price, plus insurance, plus mods = the 4.7L coming out on top (in my not so humble opinion).
K&N Drop in AF (CAI during summer months)
True Dual exhaust and removed third cat
HO Cams & HO Intake
FASTMAN 70mm TB
Autolite 3923 Plugs
TPS @ .76 VDC
IAT Adjuster Mod
14.52@94.2 MPH at Silver Dollar Raceway
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Mr.H
Dodge Dakota
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5/06/2003
21:36:51
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Sure Man,
It just pisses me off when the word round the campfire is dead wrong!! It makes me wonder who the hell is sittin at it, and why the hell are they sittin with em???
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sully
Dodge Dakota
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6/01/2003
23:13:41
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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what is a pcm flash and how much does it cost?
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OKLAHOMADUDE
Dodge Dakota
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6/02/2003
16:38:23
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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MY FRIEND HAS A '03 4.7 SHORT BED REG CAB 5 SPEED WITH 3.92'S HE RAN A 14.8 BONE STOCK HE PUT THE HO CAMS AND INTAKE EXHAUST RAN A 14.4 THE PUT A 100 SHOT ON IT AND RAN 13.2 THERE NOT HOPELESS THERE JUST NEW
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black_dakota
Dodge Dakota
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6/02/2003
22:27:58
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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Hey guys. I was reading this and I figure I would add my two cents. I believe the 4.7L V8 is a great engine thus far. I only have 1181 miles on my 03 Dakota CC 4x4 and this engine pulls hard when I need to pass. Gas mileage is good for what it is. Right now there's not much of an aftermarket for both the 4.7 and the new Hemi. The reason being is because these engines are built very efficient from the factory as it is. If you say the 4.7L then look at the Hemi because right now it too is in the same boat.
I believe the big thing that holds these two engines back from their potential is the electronics. I think if Mopar was to come out with a performance PCM for both it will be a good bang for the buck and yield some results. Also, anyone that says the 4.7 is crap then that's okay because everyone is entitled to their opinion however, keep in mind if it wasn't for the 4.7L then there wouldn't be a Hemi. DC would still be using the old Magnum engines not because their bad seeing how those engines too have a lot of potential for what they are. Keep in mind the 4.7L is almost a true hemispherical except one part of the cylinder head from what I read is squared off.
In conclusion, I think there is a lot of potential for this engine. My reasoning I say that is because if Ford can muster 320 horsepower from a 4.6L 4v found in an 01 Cobra then I believe Chrysler can squeeze that much if not more from the 4.7. They've already proved that they can squeeze 265-270 crank HP from this engine. Like I said I think the biggest limitation in both the 4.7L and the new Hemi is the PCM. Just though I would add my two cents
black_dakota
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Pete
Dodge Dakota
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6/03/2003
09:11:02
| RE: Is the 4.7 hopeless???
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The 4.7 is not even close to being a HEMI. It has flat top pistons, non-hemispherical combustion chambers, and over head cams. The 4.7 and HEMI are very different. The only thing they have in common is that DCX makes them.
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