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Dave Z
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2003
11:39:16
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 Subject: V8 Ignition problems ?
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I have a strange issue where I am driving (usually up a grade) at a steady 2200 rpm or so, and the ruck will buck and cut in and out....then stall...The truck usually starts right back up again and does it a little more....
A couple of times, I have also noticed that the fule gauge acts erratic, but this is not an "always" kind of thing....
I also have noticed a couple times when I am really getting on it, that the same thing will happen...bucking and stalls.....came to a hard stop the other day and it died.
The truck runs GREAT and idles fine otherwise...I have replaced the fuel pump/float assembly TWICE (one by dealer, once by me) and the problem persisted, though not everyday.
Now, the truck is in storage and goes out maybe 2x a month...but everytime I have had it out it does this...
I am thinking about changing the coil, cap, rotor, wires.....Are there Hi-perf options out there?? Liek Accell?? ANyone have experience with these??
DZ
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me
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2003
12:13:48
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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Have you tried changing the fuel filter?
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Texas Todd
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2003
12:30:33
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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Did I miss something here? What year and kind of engine is this? Some have idiosyncrases.(sp?)
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dave z
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2003
19:41:32
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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Sorry...I meant to post that...
Its a 92 4x4 318 V8....
I have changed fuel pump. filter and such before but the problem always reoccurs....
One thing: I *do* have the code 12 (power lost)....I am not sure if that is from the truck sitting and losing battery power or if it is related to the dying....
DZ
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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2/03/2003
20:22:45
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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it happens as you say within a particular point in the throttle at a certaian rpm
test the throttle position sensor
with a DIDGITAL multimeter you can check this
the center wire is the feed wire you well have to peirce the insulstion to do this
with the ignition on engine not running throttle plates closed you should have a voltage of not less than 200 millivolts. at wide open throttle you should have a voltage less tha 4.8 VOLTS
the voltage should rise gradually and evenly.any interuption or dieviance in how the voltage rises indicates a bad throttle position sensor
do this a few times to ensure that you readings are accurate and that any problems are in the same relative place ,steady hands well be help full
but in the mean time i searched the net and found this for your code 12
Chrysler/Dodge/Plymouth 12
Open or shorted condition detected in the evaporative purge solenoid control cir
be sure to remove the negative battery cable to clear the code first , it is possable that this might be an old code from changing the fuel pumps
if it persist ,at least you have some wgere to look
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Dave Z
Dodge Dakota
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2/04/2003
07:44:39
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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Hi Chris....
Well, I swapped out the computer last night..reinstaleld the performance one.....still same issue....
I saw someone else post that low tranny fluid could be teh issue, and checked mine this am...it is low, but I dont think its low enough to cause a problem like this....WIll top off this afternoon...
I may just pickup a new TPS.....I heard they are about $25....any brand in particular?? Was gonnago to AUtozone....
I checked my TPS in the past and had mixed results...seemed ok at the time.....for $25 its cheap enough...my truck has 110,000 on her, so it wont hurt....
DZ
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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2/04/2003
19:27:24
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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depending on the type of meter used and its ability to resist float, mixed results on a tps can be leading factor to replace it
but check it again to besure.
didgital multimeters depending on the quality well "float " a reading , make sure its in an area where it wont get affected by the vehicles battery ,free of vibration,or noise
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slow2dak
Dodge Dakota
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2/04/2003
21:39:31
|  RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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another thing you will want to check is the 12v supply to the PCM. then check the 5v reference to the PCM also. one way to check this is to go to radio shack and get a pair of low voltage light bulbs(automotive of course), like instrument cluster bulbs, and get the sockets to match them. then get a schematics for your truck and find the 5v and 12v supply wires to the pcm. run the wires up through the cowl and clamp them down with you wiper. then take a drive and when it bucks and stalls on you, see if one of the lights goes out. the 12v supply with be the bright light as where the 5v supply with be a very dim light. have done this many a times as a DC Tech. need any more help email me and ill see what else i can come up with
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Scott Wilder
Dodge Dakota
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2/04/2003
21:49:43
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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Code 12 merely means that the fault code retreival has been initiated. Disconnecting the battery cable will have no effect on this. The TPS may be a good place to start, but I would also check my fuel pressure with a pressure guage. That is the only sure fire way to make sure you have enough fuel pressure to "open" the injectors. You may also try cleaning the throttle body with Chrysler Combustion Chamber Conditioner and a fuel injector cleaner made be a company called BG. Their cleaner is called 44K. Hope that helps a little.
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Dave Z
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2003
05:15:34
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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Hello....
Well, actually, for my year, 12 means that "direct battery input to the ECM has been lost".....and 55 means "end of codes"....
I may try cleaning the injectors....I also heard that one could take injectors somewhere to have them benchtested/checked....
DZ
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steve
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2003
09:46:48
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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code 12 means someone have cleared the codes in the last 100 starts or the battery has been disconnected.take it to a dealer and have them retreive the codes they can got info. that you and I can,t get by decoding it .this could save you time and money in the long run.and fix it your self.
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Sup
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2003
23:20:08
|  RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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What about checking your Relay for fuel cut out? When mine went I had a code 12 and that was all. Maybe ??? just a hint
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Dakaty
GenIII
2/08/2003
00:08:43
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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I've been having similar random problems with my ignition. After several weeks, my problem has been traced to a faulty wire connector at the bottom of the coil.
It took two people to find my problem. One "wiggled" wires while the other turned over the engine.
14.63 @ 91.8
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Scott Wilder
Dodge Dakota
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2/08/2003
15:46:53
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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I'm telling you there is nothing significant about a code 12. All code retrievals begin with code 12 and end with 55. The actual fault codes lie between the 12 and 55. That is why everyone on this site mentions they have a code 12. It is not a "fault code" at all. If you don't turn the ignition to off after the code 55, it will start all over again. The 12 serves the same purpose as the 55.
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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2/08/2003
17:06:17
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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actually the dodge service manueal for my 93 dosent even mention code 12 in the DTC section
it well blink 55 if no codes are stored
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Dave Z
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2003
07:45:29
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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Not arguing that it is or isnt a big deal, but here is what is said about code 12 in my manuals:
Haynes:
Code 12 memory standby power lost
Chilton's:
Diagnostic Troube Code 12: Direct battery input to PCM was disconected withint he last 50 key on cycles.
SO, going by these, it COULD mean a wiring fault, or just that I had disconnected the battery.....
Only way to find out I guess would be to cycle the key thru 50 times to erase it and wait....
As an update: I replaced my magnetic pickup (aka cam position sensor), my crank position sensor (which was cracked), my fuel filter, my wires, cap and rotor.
Still had the initial startup rough idle, so I went out to drive around the block....didnt stop idling rough or missing....I DID get the code 27 and an engine light at one point, which is "fuel injector circuit".... so, went home...as I pulled into the drive the miss went completely away...pulled back out of the driveway and went and bought some fuel injector cleaner for the tank and throttle body spray, and used both. For about 30 miles no problm at all...the miss went away....no dying or anything....Pulled into the driveway after my ride and just like that ut started missing again....
Now , the code 27 doesnt tell you WHICH injector is a problem...
So, my next step is to see what can be done as far as testing the injectors....or maybe doing a better heavy duty cleaner...maybe thru the fuel rail???
Maybe I have some gunk floating around in the rail....so I might remove the rail and injectors and flush them out....
Thoughts???
DZ
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chris
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2003
10:36:23
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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recheck that you didnt nudge any of the injector harness loose while you were working on the cam sensor.
did you ever get back to checking the TPS?.
for a code 12 to register , the ingnition would have to be in the on postion with the engine not running when the battery was disconnected. the PCM only moniters itself when the ignition is on. so yes an electrical problem could be relevant
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Scott Wilder
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2003
21:53:07
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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I have a brother-in-law with a '94 Ram 318 with the same intermittent miss. We have gone through all the ignition components and have come to realize (or at least we think we have realized)that the problem does lie in the injectors. We are about to take all 8 out and send them off to be cleaned. I'll let you know how it turns out.
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Dave Z
Dodge Dakota
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2/13/2003
05:58:44
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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Hi Scott....
Please do....where are yopu sending them and how much$$$? Probably wouldnt hurt me to do mine either.....Do they test them and all???
DZ
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robert f
Dodge Dakota
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3/08/2003
16:40:01
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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dave the first thing you need to check is the dist. drive gear and bushing. that year had a problem with them wearing out. i used to work in a dodge dealer ship and changed alot of them for the same problem you have.
robert
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Pool Shark
Dodge Dakota
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3/08/2003
23:12:26
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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Robert, you beat me to it. I also have a '92 318 and I was experiencing the same thing. I'd be driving at a steady speed and get intermittent misfires, very noticeable. It usually happened as I was going very slightly downhill. Never got to the point that it stalled though. I asked someone at the dealer about it and they told me they figured it would be the distributor like Robert said. I replaced the distributor and it was gone. Should I have replaced the whole drive gear too?
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Glen Schlak
Dodge Dakota
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3/09/2003
15:21:53
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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sounds to me like a tps sensor with a bad spot on it or maybe and just maybe a crank sensor also sometimes with just the right vibration the crank sensor will falt but that would show up on a scan the tps sensor proubley wont.
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Gary B
Dodge Dakota
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3/10/2003
14:01:30
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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I justed fixed my 93 dakota that was doing the same thing. The truck would intermittently stall when driving and then start right back up. It also did this sometimes when sitting at a traffic light, but would always start again. I also noticed that the idle would fluctuate and the engine would sometimes be close to stalling. I took out the IAC at the rear of the throttle body and cleaned the soot and carbon off of it with carb cleaner. I read about doing this on another message board. I also cleaned the throttle body. This did the trick and it has not stalled since.
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dave z
Dodge Dakota
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3/12/2003
21:15:37
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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Well, looks like (fingers crossed) the problem is solved...
The bucking/stalling was cured by replacing the TPS, crank and cam sensors, doing wires, plugs, cap and rotor......but I was left with a wierd internittant rough idle......
Well, swapped the stock computer back in for the performance one and so far so good.....
So, I guess the performance ECU has a fault...anyone know how I can get this repaired?? I bought it from Barrington Dodge way back in like 94 or 95....
DZ
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walley10
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2003
19:01:50
| RE: V8 Ignition problems ?
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There's no mention about mileage on this engine (at least from what I could see as I scanned through the messages) - If the engine has over 125k on it - there could be a chance that the intake manifold is clogged. I owned a Dodge Van with a 318 that was doing the very same thing - when I gave it the gas it would sputter, choke, act like it wasn't getting enough of "something" - and come to find out there are several channels bored throughout the intake manifold that, over time, become clogged. Once the manifold was boiled out and cleaned, the engine was flawless! I was told it was an issue with the 318 with between 125k and over miles. At the time, this engine's clock was well over 250k! After this procedure was done, I put another 100k on it before the timing chain broke and it ate several intake valves . . . got a LOT of use out of it though!
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