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01:31:28 - 12/20/2024
V8 Dakotas
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Carl Justus
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2002
19:14:54
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 Subject: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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My 518 just bit the dust and I was contemplating switching to the 727 because of the price difference. Does anyone know if I can use my current driveshaft or would I have to replace it. Also what ratio rearend would I have to have to try and compensate for the lack of the fourth gear? I would like to retain some mileage.
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DAKDTP
Dodge Dakota
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11/28/2002
21:56:49
|  RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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Go to engineswaps.com. They have all the adapters to fit the 727 into our truck. The only problem you are going to run into is the computer. You might have to swap your computer for a 5 spd PCM of the same year. If you look around in truckin magazine there is a company that makes a overdrive unit for the tranny also.
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Carl Justus
Dodge Dakota
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11/28/2002
22:27:13
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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Why would I have to change the computer? What about driveshaft length?
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Trev
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2003
05:34:45
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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I was thinking of putting a 727 in my 93 V8 dakota when the A-518 trany took a crap on me. But the A-518 is a lot longer then the 727 is.
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landon Kivett
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2003
13:36:24
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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Is it posible to use the Gear Venders overdrive on that setup.... I would think if your going to do this, sence a custom driveshaft is required might as well make a 6 speed auto out of that 727.
2 cents
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2003
14:56:34
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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Gears to equal an OD transmission without one... About a 3:1 if you have the 3.90's now... So you will probably not do this in conjuction with the new tranny, ruins all the savings.
Why a new computer, the computer that is there is calibrated for a truck driving the A-518 tranny, once this is not there the computer will flip out.
Driveshaft: new shaft will be required for sure.
Just get a new A-518 from the dealer, under $1500 or so if prices have not changed much in the last few years.. better than having yours rebuilt...
Chris
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Brad Drake
Dodge Dakota
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11/06/2003
19:24:41
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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are you sure that you have a A518, or do you have an A500. The 500s are a lot weaker than the 518s. The 518s are basically a 727 with overdrive. The 500s are 904s with overdrive. If i was you i would not throw away your 518, it is a good tranny. Mine takes 380 hp.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/06/2003
20:04:48
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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Right off the top, I'm thinkin' the 727 is about 4 inches shorter than the 518. Don't quote me on that.
As for gearing, consider this....3.90 gears x 1:1= 3.90...final drive.
3.90 x .69 overdrive = 2.69 final drive. Tons of older Mopar came with 2.76 gears. This isn't so bad when you have gobs of torque and some room in the torque converter to spool up a bit. Anyway, that's what ya gotta do. Something in the 3.23-3.35 range wouldn't be too bad, and be the best compromise.
Gear Vendors makes an overdrive for the 727, and it's able to take 1,000hp. It's about $2,300, but is one serious piece of hardware.
Personally? As some have seen in other posts, I'd get it to JVX for a proper rework and upgrade. When they're done, it'll be better than new, and much more durable. It's cost at least two grand with your core, but you get all the good guts, including Kevlar bands, and a reworked valvebody.
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janesy
Dodge Dakota
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11/07/2003
21:11:47
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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if you want to get into swapping trannies, switch to a 904 with a gear venders overdrive, you basically have a 727 already. A 904 requires a lot less power to turn than the 727 and if it is geared right you can drop a second and a half just with the 904, because of its better accelerating 1st and 2nd. However the gear vender is quite pricy and unless you want to allout race, stick twith the a518.
also the over drive unit on the trannies are about 10 to 12 inches long, so if you get a 727, than your drive shaft is going to be at least that much to short
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2003
00:41:36
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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janesy...Ahh, no. The length of the overdrive is not the amount the driveshaft will be off. You must factor in the length of the 727 tailshaft. This leaves, as I said, approx. 4 inches difference. Also, while the 904 is about 15 lbs lighter in reciprocating weight, thus making it easier to turn, and a bit quicker on the dragstrip, you're the only one I've seen to claim 1.5 seconds lower 1/4 mile time. The experts state it's good for 2-3 tenths. Only the first gear is numerically higher, to allow better acceleration off the line. 2nd and 3rd are the same as the 727. Using the 904 is great for racing if you have a professional rebuild. The 904 was used primarily with smaller, less powerful engines, thus the lower 1st gear to help get off the line easier. However, for this quicker tranny, you must sacrifice ultimate strength. Again, a really well-built 904 is superb, but when it comes to brute strength for hard running, racing, towing, etc, the 727 is the obvious choice. If HD work isn't a factor, the 904 will be great.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/08/2003
00:47:25
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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Do NOT go with a 904. Stock anyway. I have KILLED several 904's with my old RAM and a approx 300 HP 360.
I have had friends kill their 904's.
One friend in particular killed about 3 of them until we swapped in a 727. This was in a 3000 lb. Duster that he drove hard. The tranny's work even harder in a near 5000 lb. TRUCK!
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold Air Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT. 160° T-Stat.
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janesy
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2003
00:59:26
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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i'll take your word on the 727 length, but the dak that i've seen which uses different trannies setups runs 9.40's (using an r5 race block). I will take his word for the speeds, Seen as how he owns and operates S and M transmitions i think he might know, but hey, i'm not up for an argument
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2003
01:18:45
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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I think he's yankin' yer chain, but it's cool man. I'd rather not argue either.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
11/08/2003
12:28:58
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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The 904 and 727 are the exact same in design except for things like the DIAMETER of each clutch pack. Same exact valve body design and all.
Now, if someone could beef up the 904 with a MUCH better material in the clutch plates, higher temp and strength seperator plates, bands, all that good stuff, then the 904 would be one strong, and lightweight transmision!
I just know that STOCK 904's are WEAK. LOL! I've rebuilt a few myself. And from stock to stock after rebuilding and swapping to a 727 that was the cheapest and best thing for us to always do. If you got money building up a 904 can easily be done and may save space and weight so in RACING that is a possibility. For a truck that tows, the 727 is easier.
2003 Graphite QC 4X4 4.7 Auto 3.55
Home Brewed Cold Air Intake, Flowmaster 40 series, Modified TPS to .72VDC, Modified IAT. 160° T-Stat.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2003
17:57:20
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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The Super Stock Hemi Dart/Barracuda guys (some of them) have been running sprecially beefed 904's since at least the early 80's, so it can be built into a very stout little tranny. These cars are now running in the high 8's in the quarter. Keep in mind that these trannys are rebuilt after very few runs. Funny, they only gained about two tenths in those cars too. It's pretty rediculous to think that swapping a 904 in place of a 727 will cut 1.5 seconds in the quarter. Sorry janesy, but a 10 second car cannot become an 8.5 second car with just a swap to a 904. Just think about it a minute. You're basically reducing the reciprocating weight the engine turns by maybe 12 lbs. Even it it saved you 25-30hp, it doesn't add up to 1.5 seconds. And as already stated, pound-for-pound, the 727 will always have a strength advantage.
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janesy
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2003
22:11:18
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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no your right a 10 second car cannot become an 8.5 second car, but, the combo was being put together to go into a 14/high 13 second truck. mine. It is a possibility to drop from 14 to 12.5. or should i say alot easier
however the package costs 2700, plus converter and overdrive unit which starts at 2300, so i won't be getting it, for a while.
go to www.smrtrans.com, thats the truck, but it is now silver, it is the fastest truck in its class and has every thing a stock truck has including front suspension and interior. Also in the pic of the truck, at the time it had a 426 hemi. Well thats enough arguing for me, feel free to call him up, his name is Pat, and go ahead and tell him what you know. Considering that everyone else is trying to beat him, i think he knows a bit about trannies.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/08/2003
22:50:21
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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janesy, nowhere on this site does "Pat" make a claim as you've stated. You know what? You've already admitted you don't know what you're talking about. To insist that, in a given vehicle, all other things being equal, a magically built 904 will make a 1 1/2 second improvement..14 to 12.5, 20 to 18.5, whatever, proves your ignorance to the whole thing. Looking at it, I'm just as stupid for going on this long with someone carrying second-hand info. It sounds like you just misunderstood what he was saying. Maybe he meant going from a stock, soft-shifting OEM-style 727 to a full-on 904...then, yeah, I could see it, but not against an equally built 727.
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janesy
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2003
22:44:50
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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Ok, i have already stated that i don't know as much as you claim to. With that said, i also stated that i was told this info, and, your right it doesn't say that on the site. But.... his Dak runs 9.40's and yours (or mine for that matter,) doesn't. Now should you show your ignorance, by suggesting that going from 14 to 12.5 is simply as easy as going from 10 to 8.5,
or "whatever". Never did i say that any tranny can drop a 10 to an 8.5! But 14 second is a very , very different story.
And yes if you look at the original post, he is going from a stock tranny and wants an improvement. Which is the same thing i am looking for. Should he have the money to buy one of these race trannies than all the power to him.
And no i didn't misunderstand anything. Until i see your 9.40 timeslip, i really don't care what you know, same applies for yourself, i'm sure. But let me ask you this, if you are this tranny pro, know all about it, have you tried it?? I will admit that i haven't but, all i stated is that it is available. And if you know so much about the things, why are you not making your living building them? Until you do, you are in the same boat as i am, second hand. And if you claim to be first hand, than you are obviously doing it all wrong, because it is being done! wether you "think" it will work or not.
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gen1dak
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
00:46:09
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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janesy. In your original post you stated that "if it is geared right you can drop a second and a half just with the 904." Those are your own words. Now, obviously with a gear swap, et's will change, so how much of your example is from the gears, and how much is due to the 904's lower hp requirements? You also stated that 904's require a lot less hp than a 727. I guess you should've qualified "a lot" for the rest of us. What does it take to drop a 10 second car to 8.5 sec.? Obviously more power than it takes to drop a 14 sec car to 12.5 sec, (it's a geometric increase in power to achieve a linear increase in speed/accel),but here's where you keep hanging up on the whole deal. Using the same 904, you have the same hp loss in both examples. We're talking about approx 20hp. Let me ask you this. Was your friend's truck running 11 seconds before the swap? Referring to your quoted statement, you mentioned the right gearing and a 904 swap. This is like saying that a product will guarantee amazing weight loss. The fine print states this is true, as long as you exercise a certain amount and eat only the food they send. I can guarantee a 1.5 second et drop with a 904 tranny swap. Fine print: Shuttle rocket booster is required for full benefit. Now, where do you get off stating that for me to have credibility I have to produce 9.40 timeslips? Where's yours? The typical 14 sec car needs at least 150 more hp to crack the 12's. Even a well-built 904 cannot make up for that kind of hp. Maybe you're off track on what I'm saying. All I'm saying is, all else being equal, a swap to a 904 from a 727 will not produce a 1.5 second drop in et. If, as already stated, you're comparing a stock unit to a prepped 904, 1.5 seconds is still mighty hard to believe....if it's just a transmission swap, unless the stocker was one serious dog. Prepped 904 and a swap from 2.76 to 4.56 gears? Yeah, or at least close, but not just a tranny. As for my work, why would I have to make a living at it to know what I'm saying? There are plenty of people making a living at things, but they're total idiots. The reason they can make a living is because their customers know even less. How do I know what I know? I can read, and have a reasonable understanding of basic mechanical physics. Not Quantum Theory, just the basics: mass, inertia...stuff like that. I might add that when I have discussed the weight and reciprocating hp loss from a common-sense point-of-view, you have not even attempted to reply to this. I don't need to run 9.40's to benefit from people who have already done so. I'm not saying your friend isn't running 9.40's. I'm not saying he's not running 9.40's with a 904. I'm saying he didn't drop 1.5 seconds off his et simply by swapping in a 904. Now, obviously this will not change anything. I have my beliefs. You have yours. We can agree to disagree. Okay?
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janesy
Dodge Dakota
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11/10/2003
13:19:53
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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The swap was for a stock sh*tty shift like my own, and unless we go over and analize all my current motor mods, we will not agree, and i never commented on rotating weight because my post was simply to suggest not break down the internal workings. as well i never intended to insult anyones intellegence, two people who don't race can't talk race. I wasn't up for an argument in the first place. truse.
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STS
Dodge Dakota
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12/31/2003
16:35:34
| RE: 518 to 727 Tranny Swap
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Thats just like a woman.....
No, The PowerFlight A909 is just like the 42Rh. OR A500.
Its was matted to smaller engines like the /6, 273, and 318.
The 727 TF was mated to the 340 on up.
Of course now there no longer in production. My Dakota is mated to a A-518 or 46RH. It has the same gear ratios as the 727..
From 1st=2.45:1 to 4th .69:1
The problem with these high prefromance autos is there gear ratios is just to high for a truck much less a 4x4.
GM has some decent auto's for there truck (4LE series)
But Chrysler did improve when thy Finaly came out with new Generation autos. Also I notice they don't gear hunt like the last ones. All thanks to the multi gears.
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