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POWER HUNGRY
Dodge Dakota
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11/01/2002
21:50:58
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 Subject: RE: supercharger
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Demon Dakota,
One of the main reasons for the higher boost that the lightening can run is it's 8.4cr. vs the 4.7's 9:1. That drop in static compression should allow them to run at least 2 more psi on the same octane fuel.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
 
11/02/2002
00:18:07
| RE: supercharger
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demon, ford is also using a intercooler with their blower.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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kota on 20s
GenIII
11/02/2002
00:51:08
| RE: supercharger
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MikeD, the lightning killer longblock costs $5000+ shipping. one could get a used powerdyne for +/- 2k.
also you said a blower on a bone stock engine puts out 40-50 RWHP. who puts a blower on a stock engine and stops modding??
not everyone is up for a engine swap either. i can easily take off my supercharger, and have the stock belt and tencioner on in 30-40 min easily, incase i need warenty work.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, 3" carsound cat, dumped gibson
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Shane
Dodge Dakota
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11/02/2002
03:19:32
| RE: supercharger
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Kenne-bell is selling a lightning SC upgrade by replacing the blower unit and a smaller pully giving 2 more psi and generating 100 more HP
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snowman
GenIII
2/24/2003
18:57:48
| RE: supercharger
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out of curiousity what kind of gas milage are you guys getting? I just put on a kenne bell supercharger and only mange 8 in town if I'm lucky and about 9.3 combined.
Formerly Cadetdak
"This war will end at a time and place of our choosing"
president Bush
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x96283
Dodge Dakota
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2/24/2003
21:19:54
| RE: supercharger
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formerly cadetdak?
did you get commissioned finally?
time to get a new handle eh?
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snowman
GenIII
2/24/2003
22:26:59
| RE: supercharger
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no not commissioned yet, 465 more days, but for some odd reason which I can't explain the system on www.dodgedakotas.com wouldn't let me use the cadetdak one anymore. SO I had to change it
Formerly Cadetdak
"This war will end at a time and place of our choosing"
president Bush
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KID
Dodge Dakota
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4/12/2003
14:48:20
| RE: supercharger
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where can I get a used powerdyne for my 99 R/T
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notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2003
01:22:58
| RE: supercharger
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40-50RWHP out of a stock engine'd supercharger install??? I think I'd want my money back.
MY completely stock engine with the supercharger added, picked up 103RWHP on the stock pulley.
And...I agree with Eric. I just could not justify tearing into a FRESH engine with less than 25K miles on it.
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Dakman
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2003
16:38:53
|  RE: supercharger
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notchlx; what brand supercharger are you using and on what motor to get 103 RWHP gain with a stock engine and a stock pulley? it was my understanding that kenne bell was getting around 68 RWHP out of their kit for the 4.7L at 6lbs of boost.
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Buddy
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2003
17:26:19
| RE: supercharger
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Vortech got 95rwhp out of a stock R/T.
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Dakman
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2003
18:43:51
| RE: supercharger
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Take a look:
http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/systems/appguide.html
They show 95 HP gain with 7-8 lbs of boost for the R/T kit on a stock engine, with stock rev limiter at sea level. But if you go to the bottom of the page you can see that these numbers are at the CRANK, not the rear wheels.
Don't take me wrong, Vortech makes an awesome system for the R/T's, but 103 HP gain at the rear wheels on a stock engine and stock pulley seems a bit high to me. Might have to raise the BS flag on this one. I thought he had a 4.7 anyway? Either way, 4.7, 5.2, or 5.9, I don't see it happening.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
4/13/2003
18:49:34
| RE: supercharger
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im sure he will post, but he is running a paxton blower on a 4.7L, and from what i remember, he posted dyno sheets.
he is a regular on differant boards, and has nothing to lie about
how much HP did a supercharger give YOU dakman? maby you can post your dyno sheets?
~Eric
Single cam, non-VTEC
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Dakman
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2003
19:36:59
|  RE: supercharger
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Hold on man...no need in getting your panties in a bunch, I'm not attacking anyone, just doesn't seem like the numbers add up on this on.
I posted a link showing Vortech getting 95 Crank HP on an R/T with 250 HP STOCK. OK...lets say there's a 18% loss in drivedrain...that's going to be a gain of around 78 Rear wheel HP. Far cry from 103 RWHP gain.
Now that we know what he's got, lets look at it this way. Kenne Bell was able to get 68 RWHP out of a stock 4.7 with 6 lbs of boost. Do you really think that running 1-2 more lbs of boost (assuming he's running 7-8 lbs) is going to give him an extra 35 REAR WHEEL HP?
Or better yet...try to look at it like this...in order for his Paxton to give him 103 RWHP it would have to give him roughly an extra 125 HP at the crank. I'm just not seeing it on a stock 4.7 motor and stock pulley. The 4.7 is coming from the factory tuned pretty well and doesn't respond nearly as well as the 5.9 to most mods, such as intake, exhaust, headers, ect. What makes you think that the Paxton with 7-8 lbs of boost on the 4.7 is going to give you far more superior numbers than that from the Vortech on a 5.9?
I'm not trying to flame anyone. I'm just saying something doesn't seem right to me. Heck...maybe he meant to say 103 CRANK HP gain...that I might be able to see since Vortech was getting 95. But since YOU brought up the dyno sheet thing, that would be cool if he could post it.
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Dakman
Dodge Dakota
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4/13/2003
20:03:03
|  RE: supercharger
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Take a look:
http://www.paxtonauto.com/catalog/systems.asp?Action=GetPart&Part=1201216
Shows the 4.7 Paxton good for 37% HP gain with 6-7 lbs of boost. Stock crank HP @ 245 X 37%= 90.6. This is at the CRANK! Lets figure in say a low 15% drivetrain loss. 90.6 X 15% = 13.6 HP lost by the time it's at the rear wheels. 90.6 - 13.6 = 77 RWHP. Or somewhere there abouts. A far cry from 103 RWHP. Maybe he is getting 103 RWHP, but if so... it's not on a bone stock engine running 6-7 lbs of boost.
Can I do the "I told ya so" dance yet? j/k Lighten up guys...it's all good.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
4/14/2003
00:12:07
| RE: supercharger
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well i would think that because the 4.7 came from the factory better tuned than the 5.2/5.9, bolting a blower onto it, would just complement the better flowing heads, intake manifold and exhaust manifolds.
for example lets say, if the RT came with 1.92 RT heads, 2bbl M1, and better flowing exhaust manifolds, instead of seeing a 65RWHP increase, it would be a lot higher.
beleve me, i think 103 RWHP is A LOT too, but like i said, im almost positive he posted before and after dyno sheets as proof. (maby he can post and set us straight)
mabe he lives at sealevel, and did the run in 40 degree temps?
~Eric
Single cam, non-VTEC
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notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2003
00:16:56
| RE: supercharger
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Humm, maybe it was my single-in single-out Flowmaster that gave me an extra 30RWHP???
Yes, I have a 4.7.
I must say I was surprised at the outcome at the dyno, but I have no reason to lie.
Here's the dyno. If you'll notice in the graph, the numbers on the HP don't line up correctly. I do have a rpm breakdown sheet with the HP and torque in 100rpm increments showing the 304 and 351. The picture graph shows the run being shut down at 5,000rpm, when the test was really shut down at 5,500rpm.
Stock was 201RWHP and 273RWTQ, and that was with the flowmaster already in place. Do you believe everything you read on a web-site?????
My truck is a 5-spd...Paxton's advertised numbers come from an automatic 4x4 Durango. Lot of difference in drivetrain losses there. They always list numbers as being lower, so customers don't call them up saying WTF?????
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notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2003
00:29:54
| RE: supercharger
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This is at 350ft above sea level, and 52 degrees.
If you'd like to see before dyno's, I'll post them up too.
MY 304RWHP and SOMEBODY elses (KB S/C'd) 275RWHP, could very possibly run the same times. The KB is making full boost at 2,200 or so rpm, thus producing most of that 67RWHP gain all the way through the powerband, unlike the Paxton that makes most of the HP and Torque on the top end.
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Dakman
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2003
08:57:22
| RE: supercharger
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I have the 4.7 with a 3" cat back single in/out Flowmaster as well, and can tell you that's not where you picked up the 30 extra RWHP. LOL Anyway if your stock run was with the Flowmaster allready in place, it shouldn't have played as much of a roll in all the extra power your seeing.
You mention believing everything I see on a wesite, no I don't, hence the questioning of your numbers. I DO tend to usually believe the manufacture's website info over someone on one of these boards though. I mean straight from the horses mouth at Paxton puts the kit at making only 90.6 at the crank. Hell, even if you had 0% loss (and believe me, you have some loss even though it's a 5 speed not an auto) your numbers still don't add up. Let's say 10% instead of 15-18% loss. Still should be somewhere around 81 HP gain at the rear wheels. This is with the same amount of boost the Kenne Bell kit is getting 68 RWHP. Do you think the Paxton is that much more efficient??? Boost is boost to a certain degree right??? I realize that Paxton may even list their numbers as being lower than what they actually get, but 20 RWHP lower???WTF They're out to sell these kits and they're not gonna under cut the numbers by that much....ya think??? Who knows maybe they do? Doesn't make good sense to me though.
Something still doesn't make sense here. Not calling you a liar, just trying to figure this out. If you don't mind me asking how much boost were you pushing at the time of the dyno?
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Notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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4/14/2003
11:20:29
| RE: supercharger
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I don't have a boost gauge as of yet, but I would imagine that was pushing 6-1/2 - 7psi.
OK... Something to calm the numbers down a hair...
I just noticed my first run(stock) was dyno'd with the SAE correction, and the second was at standard HP...That would account for about 8-10rwhp, compared to my other dyno runs, and that's being more than fair.
BAck to the factory ratings...They are still getting their numbers off of the Durango (auto 4x4) figuring a modest drivetrain loss of 25% their gains at the flywheel are 90hp...Keep in mind the auto...I have not seen the dyno, but the auto may have not been pulled much past 4,000rpm???
Alright...If you back my original number from 304, to 294RWHP, figure a drive-train loss of 15% and you have a gain of about 112 at the crank. You still going to bust my chops over 22HP??? We don't even know the conditions of the dyno from Paxton...I told them about it at Paxton, and they said my gains sounded normal. 48% gain.
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camaro396
Dodge Dakota
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4/21/2003
19:39:58
| RE: supercharger
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In Feb 2002, I bought a Powerdyne setup from someone on EBay. The guy had used it less than 2500 miles but was getting rid of the truck. I went out and bought the metal airhat, used mustang 24lb injectors, air filter, even the plastic throttle body spacer. I've never installed any of it, just ended up buying a bigger house and lost interest. I might have some other things, but I haven't even unpacked anything. I have $2400 in all of the stuff. If you want to make an offer and get the wife off my back for spending a bunch of money and never installing it, let me know.
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