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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
08:56:10
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 Subject: 4.7L custom Intake?
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Ok, I was at the NEDyno.com page, go to the contest section, Has anyone thought of doing a manifold like this for the 4.7. It seems the 4.7 would be the perfect candidate:
-the intake prots on the heads aim upwards
-o-ring seals abound
All you gotta do is mount the 4.7l TB on the front of the intake...
Any takers... I may try it this winter but I figured if the idea got out someone with better metalworking skills might be able to make something first...
Chris
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
10/18/2002
09:56:36
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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dude. where the hell on that site are you talking about? i looked for like 10 minutes and i didn't see the 1st pic of an intake. copy and past a more specific url. now... i HAVE thought about doing a custom intake like that. the likelyhood of me acutally doing it is slim to none as i dont have the money to try a few different things to see what's best. if somebody else came up with something and made a few i'd surely buy one.
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
10:01:21
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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An intake more like the one on this engine:
http://www.nedyno.com/contest.htm
Chris
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
10/18/2002
10:16:47
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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yeah that's kinda what i figured you were talkin about. i've seen some other designs on race engines. it'd be possible to do it out of plastic too. that's what the others that i've like were made out of. very simplistic in design. gotta find the most efficient shape, length, and diameter for the runners, and the best volume for the plenum. i'll try to find pics on the internet of the other designs
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
10:21:55
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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Message:
Just another thought to add to this topic: Would adding spacers between the manifold and the heads be of any value?
I guess I am also confused about runner length and where the power comes in as well. Does a shorter runner make higher RPM power?
Chris
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
10/18/2002
10:31:05
|  RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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i'm gonna say yes it does. always possible i'm wrong though.. :o)
there's lots of reading material on this subject on the web. a couple books i have cover intake manifold design too
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
10:43:52
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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I got two things to say here.....
1. Yes, Duner has thought of something like this. He just hasn't done too much more than a few sketches, though, that I'm aware of.
2. Not to steal any thunder too soon, but look for some things from KRC that will be based on the stock intake manifold very soon. (ie- yes, shorter runners make it rev much higher and move your power band UP UP UP).
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
10/18/2002
10:48:43
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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doesn't steal any of my thunder. it would if i built it and was trying to sell it.. but i'm not gonna do that. i dont really think basing an aftermarket part would yield the best results. look at how different the M1 is from the good ol beer barrel. alex you at work?
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
11:12:28
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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With intake runners that short be prepared for really really high rpm power peak.... the engine may not even rev up high enough to make good use of the manifold.
Here's the basics of how runner length affect power:
when the intake valve opens, air rushes down a runner at a given velocity (dependent on RPM and runner cross-section). When the intake valve slams shut, all that air hits the valve and an acoustical shock wave (high pressure) is reflected back towards the plenum at the speed of sound (which varies with air temp and density). Once it hits the plenum of air, a portion of it is reflected back again down the runner. Now, if the runner length is tuned just right so that when that shock wave gets back to the intake valve, it opens, that higher pressure forces more air into the cylinder .. similar to how a turbo/supercharger forces more air in ... the effect is called internal supercharging infact. Here's the kicker though: since the intake valve opens at different rates depending on the RPM, any single runner length is only going to be effective within a narrow RPM band (and harmonic modes of that RPM band) .. i.e. a 20" (for example) runner may be tuned for best performance in the 2000-2400RPM band ... but it will have secondary harmonics at 4600-4800RPM which aren't as strong as the first set .. whereas a 15" runner will be tuned for 3400-3600RPM or something.
am I making sense?
So obviously, the ideal intake would have infinitely variable length runners (for other reasons too, an ideal intake would also have infinitely variable runner cross-sections as well). Some vehicles have incorporated these principles in their design .. mid 90s Celicas I think .. and the new high end BMWs (700 series I think) ... I think even ford has on their SVT mustangs but I'm not to sure. Of course the most prohibitive thing is cost.
So before you go making any custom intakes .. you really, REALLY have to do your homework and run some numbers and make some decisions of what you want.
that's just my understanding of them ... any more input is welcome...
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
11:52:18
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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Canucker, that makes total sense. I am not about to go out and try to make an intake manifold right now but was wondering if anyone had thought of this option. It seems to me that it would be easy enough to make manifolds of this design that just kick A55....
Chris
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conig
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
13:32:31
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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the setups they have on bmw's work really well. the runners actually shorten with rpm.
the setup ford uses is a lot more basic basically on bith the cobra and svt contour it consists of a long set of runners and a short set of runners that are blocked off half way with what look like little throttle bodies. at a given rpm. honestly I never found it all that effective. I had mine adjusted to stay partially open all the time.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
13:33:32
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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1. Yep, i'm at work. Just got back from lunch.
2. What Canucker is explaining is the truth (as complicated as it is).
3. I'm telling you.... KRC has not only thought about this whole approach, he's only a matter of weeks away from releasing it to the public. He's got a 4.7 motor that's producing 500 horsepower. Naturally aspirated, no power adders. BUT, it's producing that number at 7800 rpm. Now, go outside and look at your tachometer.... no way to tell when to shift, right? Ouch, that's a lot of RPM. The only way to get the motor to rev that high is short runners in the intake manifold. If you think about it, Marty must have figured out SOMETHING...... so what I'm saying is, I'm not stealing his thunder, but it's coming soon.......
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
16:24:31
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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Oh.... did you mean am I at work on a custom manifold?? Hahahha
Nope.
I am just relaying some things that I have found out by talking with Marty at KRC. I'll wait for some dyno graphs to pop up on his website before I start flappin my mouth too hard.
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
10/18/2002
16:31:12
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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no no.. i meant work as in work work. :o) just seeing if i'm not the only one getting paid to surf the web half my time at work
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
16:44:43
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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Nope. You're not alone. I dont' even have a computer at my house. Hhahahahaha
When I have things to do, i procrastinate. When i procrastinate, I tend to do automotive research. When i'm at home, I pull out old Mopar Muscle issues or Hot Rod or Mopar Action, etc....
When I'm at work, I start at Dodge Dakotas, then go to Mopar Chat, then on to Jeeps Unlimited (Speed Freaks Forum), then maybe the Turbo Diesel Register (Competition Forum), then Dodge Trucks.org, the do a little work, then start over..... then it all catches up with me & the original sh*t is finally due, and I end up working late to finish. I must be an idiot.
But let's put it like this: this "procrastinate/learn about cars:" habit started in grad school (back in 1996), and the automotive learning curve has been vertical for most of the time since then..... I am just now financially able to act on my knowledge. Which seems to be getting me into more & more trouble. I keep saying "oh it's just $300 more dollars. no problem..."
Guess what? 3-hundy here & 3-hundy there, and pretty soon, you're broke. Which is where I am currently. But not for long. I pay the truck off next week. hahahahah
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yates-in-DE
GenIII
10/18/2002
16:46:00
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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Message:
Well I go to work for 8 hrs and surf for 7. ????????? It's a dirty job but someone has to do it.
Later,
MyVW Killer
Lynn
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dr0p0ff
GenIII
10/18/2002
16:51:37
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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i switch back and forth between this and telling people to get to work. when i'm not in the field i dont do any work.
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
16:51:51
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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bwaahahaha ... me too .. I have the routine loop I go through .. DD.com .. then DTO.com .. then moparchat.com (mostly reading archives of yours and Duners on that one) .. then to KRC (see if anythings new) .. then speedtweaks .. then hughes .. then back to work for a bit.
I'm still trying to figure out a way to get work to pay for a few automotive/motorsports courses down in Michigan. They already payed for my SAE membership. .. what's another $1000 to a corporation I say! Its all pocket change to them.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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10/18/2002
17:18:16
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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Well, it's good to know I'm in good company, here. Hahahah
I dont' feel so bad now. If i didn't have a job where we aren't even on a network (each computer is individually linked to the net) I wouldn't have my truck in the mid 14's.... not even close.
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Chris
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/21/2002
07:26:18
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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It seems many of us are hard at work....
Chris
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Clevite 77
GenIII
10/21/2002
14:47:46
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
IP: Logged
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yep me to
Line-X Over The Rail Bed Liner
Home Brew Intake
Dual Exhaust
3923 Autolite Plugs
Krypton 4300K Blue/Whites
Euro Clear Corners
Grille-Tech Grill Insert (Silver)
TPS Set At .705
Removed Rubber Flap
I've used Mobil -1 Full Synthetic Oil And Filter Since I Had 6,000 miles
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nitrous steve
Dakota Enthusiast
10/23/2002
13:49:08
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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hey what's up?
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alex
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
10/23/2002
14:12:27
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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s'up.
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Canucker
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2002
17:06:41
|  RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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WTF?
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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10/23/2002
18:15:11
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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hahahaha
got me???? aaah-dunno.....
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dr0p0ff
DakotaEnthusiast
10/23/2002
19:39:49
|  RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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wow.. that's.. ... wow
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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10/24/2002
09:37:27
| RE: 4.7L custom Intake?
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wait.
do what?
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