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DonDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2002
21:08:58
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 Subject: moparjoe20???off-idle stumble???
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moparjoe20,
I've searched about off-idle stumble and read a post, that you responded to, about the M-1 and leaking gaskets. I've just recently put a 2BBL M-1 on my 92, and I'm getting some sever stumble from a dead punch, plus I'm also getting alot of oil smoke from the engine after it gets warmed up.
You stated that it was a Ram with the M-1 and that you fixed the problem by using Halomar on the intake ports.
My question is, is there a way to tell if this is my problem without pulling the intake first? Or am I locked in to pulling the intake regardless?
I hate to think about pulling off the intake again, so I would like to diagnos the problem before I plunge back in to it.
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moparjoe20
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2002
21:53:18
|  RE: moparjoe20???off-idle stumble???
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If it's smoking try pulling the breather from the valvecover and put you're thumb over the hole to feel if there is any vaccum in the crankcase- just like you would to check for a bad plenum gasket on the keg, it sounds like you have a bad vaccum leak and also sucking oil from the lifter valley. That's what the Ram was doing before I fixed it, it's fine now and I did it back in May.
You really don't have much of a choice but to pull the intake back off- it sucks but has to be done. Also watch the cat after you get it fixed , the oil caused the one in the Ram to overheat and clog shortly after we got it straightened out.
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KRC Tech
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2002
21:59:04
| RE: moparjoe20???off-idle stumble???
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Check the fuel injector o-rings for pinching, that is the most common cause of this issue when changing to the M-1.
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DonDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2002
22:08:10
| RE: moparjoe20???off-idle stumble???
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Thanks moparjoe20,
I was afraid of that...but that's kind of what I figured..you know 2nd opinion from someone who's had the experience.
It sucks that none of the instructions in the Magnum manual, Haynes manual, or the gothic written instructions that came with the intake, say to use a sealant on the intake gaskets around the ports. I think I read each one of them 5 times to ensure that I didn't screw anything up, and now look at what I got! A screw up and more $$$ out the door for new gaskets and bolts. Oh well, that's life I guess
I take it that the Ram also was blowing up a lot of oil smoke with the bad seal on the gaskets?
Again, thanks for the info. I appreciate it.
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DonDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2002
22:11:25
| RE: moparjoe20???off-idle stumble???
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KRC Tech,
I understand that it would account for stumble, but what about the mass amount of smoke?
I used clean oil to lube up the o-rings before seating the rails back on the intake, so I'm pretty sure that its not the injectors, but I'll definitely check that.
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KRC Tech
Dodge Dakota
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9/23/2002
23:06:08
| RE: moparjoe20???off-idle stumble???
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Mass amount scares me with a not so pretty picture in my mind. Are we talking space shuttle amounts? The manifold may not be torqued down completely. Did you use the cork or rubber end rail gaskets? Sometimes the corks place the manifolf too high for proper sealing. It's possible you have a warped intake causing the oil to be drawn in once crankcase pressures rise. I have never seen one warped yet. Also make sure the manifold is not caught on the lip of the valve cover on either side. The gaskets could have slipped far enough down when installing to expose the valley to an intake. Pull your plugs and see which one has the oil. Take care and hang in there!
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DonDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/24/2002
00:09:52
| RE: moparjoe20???off-idle stumble???
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KRC Tech,
I only get mass amounts when I press the "go" pedal a little harder than normal acceleration. Then it billows out the back and hangs thick in the air. Not quite Space Shuttle worthy, but enough for me to worry. It doesn't smoke the entire time the truck is being driven, like when I'm at crusing speed. Only on "harder" accelerations, if I slow down to take a curve, or come to a stop and then hit the gas after the curve or to continue after my stop. Which leads me to believe that when I'm slowing down or stopped the engine is drawing vaccum and pulling oil from the lifter valley into the intake ports. I'll go home tonight and see if I have oily residue in the bottom of the intake...like the beer keg, but still just to double check it.
I used the rubber end gaskets from Mopar, and didn't have the valve covers on the truck when I installed the intake (also added 1.7 rockers at the time). I triple checked the torque when I torqued down the bolts, but I've gotten several different answers on the torque specifications. One book said to torque to 144 in-lbs., another other book said to torque to 12 ft-lbs. and yes I realize that 12 ft-lbs is equal to 144 in-lbs., (12 inches in a foot), but to a novice it can be confusing. I even read on a web-site that they recommend torquing the intake bolts to 17 ft-lbs. Now who do I belive? I went with the Magnum manual that stated torquing the bolts to 12ft-lbs.
I also forgot to mention that it does have a slight surge idle when I first start up the truck.
I've cleaned and replaced the IAC sensor, but the 2nd IAC sensor came off an old junk yard engine, so I'm not 100% on the condition of it. I cleaned it, but it was completed carbon coated.
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KRC Tech
Dodge Dakota
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9/24/2002
00:16:04
| RE: moparjoe20???off-idle stumble???
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12 is fine, I know you may have heard this, but smoking upon start-up, and then diminishing, is the valveseals, smoking under accelleration is the rings. Could you have dropped something in the intake? Check your plugs and be sure. Take care!
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DonDak
Dodge Dakota
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9/30/2002
17:39:32
| RE: moparjoe20???off-idle stumble???
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Well, I pulled the intake this morning, and it looks as if the gaskets weren't seated correctly. I've got nice little "snail trails" of oil coming up from the lifter valley and going in to the intake ports. I just love it:(
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