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tbirdkiri
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2002
02:29:52
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 Subject: RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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I dont see how thats a fair comparison, seeing as though a Lighting costs in the range of 35k, and an rt costs 27k new with all the trimings.
If you take that 8k, put 2k in the market and put the rest into the truck, including a s/c or t/c, that rt will easily put a lightning down like a rabid dog... lets just put that in perspective..
Im looking at about 13k for a 2000 RT. And im looking at about 1800 for a 408 kit, and another 4k for the s/c. and 2k for some nicer heads. and that can make close to 400hp at the wheels...
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kota on 20s
GenIII
8/04/2002
02:51:42
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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if you want to save money and still kill lightnings, just put the R/T on the bottle. its a lot cheaper than a SC, and you get more torque!
Scott Q's truck (SC'd 408 W/No2) ran a 11.90@118 (with a best speed of 122mph...yes it should be in the 10's!!) and gets 14.7mpg!!! what more can you ask for? can you say LIGHTNING, ZO6, VIPER, ECT. KILLER?
Eric, 98 5.2 5speed, K&N gen II, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, JBA ciramic headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson, and a lot more
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DakTer
Dodge Dakota
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8/04/2002
04:40:24
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Well, the whole lightning vs r/t deal again. I have a 99 r/t i payed 17k for it used. You could get a 99 lightning for a few thousand more. Sure i have 4 seats, thats why I went with the r/t. Before any mods a lightning not only pulled away from me, but obliterated me. Not even close, i mean really not even close. Now even with a magnaflow, 160 robertshaw, sticky tires, 3in drop, bigger filter and vortec at 8lbs and it would still be close. And im now at atleast 21k. You could easily pick up a lightning that would run me down for that, heck i would have gotten one except they are everywhere around here, and a single cab isnt practical for me. Argue all you want, but here is the truth from a dodge owner, lightnings are freaking fast, much faster then any non super/turbo charged truck out there. Or one thats breathing nitrous. The difference is that of a 4cyl honda running a stock v8 daker. It wont even be close.
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kota on 20s
GenIII
8/04/2002
12:34:29
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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of course they are faster than any not-turbo/SC/No2 truck!! they have a blower!! take a NA R/T against a regular F-150 and see who wins!
i like how ford's "Special Vehicle Team" adds superchargers to solve there problems. the F-150 was getting $hit on by the R/T's, so they added a SC.
the cobra was getting killed by the camaro since 93, and now, 10 years later it gets a blower
they say it run's 12's.. WOO HOO. so does a NA ZO6!
Eric, 98 5.2 5speed, K&N gen II, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, JBA ciramic headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson, and a lot more
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oakleyman
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2002
03:57:38
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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If you want to kill stock lightnings just add a supercharger to your R/T and you will simple as that. I have an ATI procharger on my R/T and it kills lightnings all the time.
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paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2002
14:53:19
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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I would prefer the Lightning myself except for it only comes in 2 doors and I need 4 doors. So I have been trying to decide what 4 door truck to buy and add the blower my self.
So far from what I read from Dakota users with blowers, their acceleration still lags as compared to a Lightning. By a lot actually.
I was really thinking of buying a Dakota. 4 door truck, mid sized with a V8. Potential I think. If I buy one I hope I can find ways to build it up.
I am old school. Ya know, big cams loping at the light, big intake, Holley double pumper, all the easy sh*t that made 300 to 400 HP in a daily driver!
So, me being a hater of those small Civic's etc, with the large shopping cart spoilers and 8" mega tipped mufflers, I sure as H*LL do not want one to beat me in a truck.
That would be embaressing as h*ll!
I drive a Nissan car now. It is stock and beats the V8 Dakota's. My car is 4 cylinders. And does not have a speed limiter either. Dodge does use speed limiters, damn!
We also have a '98 Cirrus with a 2.5 Liter V6. My Nissan does beat that too. But I plan on trading my Nissan for a truck next year and figuring out how to get a blower on the Cirrus for a sleeper/econo-box/Civic crusher!
Oh, by the way. My Nissan was made in AMERICA while some chevy's and Dodge's were made in Mexico. What the h*ll?
So, does anyone here have a truck that stomps a mud hole in those pansy low rider cars? Please tell me yes.
goto www.paysonarizona.net for more info... A personal website I built about my local area but it also includes bashing of said low rider POS rice rockets!
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Big59er
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2002
15:11:19
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Iv been on the Chicago land R/T club site quite a few times, and everytime they go to that Lightening/R/T shootout a majority of the R/T's beat the lightenings. All the lightenings have are superchargers and a nice set of bilstien shocks so its not like they are running anything ungodly radical.
As you 4.7 5 speed owners. I love the engine you guys are indeed quick. But what I think is humerous is about all these stories you guys tell about how your only running a better exsaust a cold air intake and a handful of other stuff and you manage to beat a stock R/T. Givin the small descrepency in numbers between a 4.7 5-speed and a 5.9 R/T I would honestly hope you could manage to pull it off...
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Big59er
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2002
15:14:15
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Xplikt, I think your thinking about the first couple of years they made the R/T... I have an 00' and I have the "more sportish" looking mirrors. I know what your talking about though, a buddy of mine on his looked like he had mirrors that looked like they belonged on a full size ram.
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R/T Guy
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2002
15:27:38
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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I dont think iv ever heard a group of people (the 4.7 owners) have a hatred for one of there fellow engines, the 5.9, like you guys do.
Almost makes you guys sound alittle jealous.
By the by, if the R/T isnt threatening enough... Then what does that make the SLT or the Sport? Since essentially that would make it a half ass'ed R/T.
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yates-in-DE
GenIII
9/07/2002
15:43:38
|  RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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I don't hate the 5.9's or the owners. I just think it's a crock of crap that Dodge doesn't offer the 5.9 with a 5 or 6 speed. I personally don't like auto's,(17 years driving big rigs I guess) and will not pay $4,000 - $6,000 more and not get the transmission style I want. That's my beef.
Later Folks and have a good day,
MyVW Killer
Lynn
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2002
16:07:57
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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"Why does the R/T come with those dog ugly mickey mouse side mirrors and my little SLT comes with some small sporty-ish ones? I would think the people with the SLT would want the larger mirrors for towing and easier use, and the R/Ts have the smaller more sleek ones. The R/T needs to be a manual 5.7!"
Every Dakota sold has the option of what mirrors were put on from the factory. The 6x9's(dumbo/mickey mouse) were actually an option, and the 5x7(small) were standard. I'm sure a lot of dealers ordered fully loaded R/T's which included upgrading the mirrors. I know a lot of R/T's that have switched out their larger mirrors for the smaller ones.
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HSKR
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2002
16:08:57
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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"My 97 5.2 5sp. 3.55 (I believe) has dusted EVERY single R/T I've ever raced. I love it every time someone in an R/T pulls up next to me and wants to run 'em.... Just another notch on my bedpost. LoL..."
Where you at Lee?? Wanna race??
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kota on 20s
GenIII
9/07/2002
21:13:00
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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yup... i got the dumbo ear mirrors with my sport. I QUICKLY replaced them with some SS mirrors.
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson
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xplikt
GenIII
9/08/2002
00:15:40
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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kotaon20s, what's with your new profile pic?
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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Big59er
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2002
02:21:54
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Ferrari 360's :P Speaking of that... Formula 1 will be in town soon...
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kota on 20s
GenIII
9/08/2002
02:57:57
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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well i dont have any good pics of my truck, so i threw the ferrari's on there.
i uploaded a pic of my engine almost put backtogether when i did the headgaskets (i only have engine pics)
ill upload a good pic when i get one
-Eric
Injection is nice, but i'd rather be blown.
5.2L, 5speed. Powerdyne SC, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, MSD 6BTM, ciramic JBA headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson
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xplikt
GenIII
9/08/2002
13:34:21
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Ahh, I see. I don't have a pic either, so I recreated my truck in MS Paint. Next Sunday is my next autocross and my sister and her friend are going to take pictures for me. Right now mine's kinda ghetto.
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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afi360
R/T
9/08/2002
22:28:56
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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the only thing i can really say to all of this nonsense is that 90% of everyone in here bought exactly what they wanted....yes, a 6speed in the r/t would probably drop it down to 14.75 with a good driver behind the wheel, but it didnt happen. unless you can do the swap, no sense bitching about it. i dont think its a fair comparison pitting the lightning vs. the r/t. a SUPERCHARGER will make a truck faster. isnt that the idea? you put a s/c on the r/t it will hand a lightning its ass. end of story. last on my list of rants is from the 97 5.2 5 spd. owner who said they have beaten EVERY r/t theyve ever raced.. if you want to go home and not notch your bedpost again, come to southside chicago and race me :)
whoever said they have an a.t.i. procharger on their truck POST WITH MORE DETAILS its that or a 408 for me!!
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xplikt
GenIII
9/08/2002
23:20:18
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Bitching is just another form of demanding. If enough people demanded, it only makes sence for them to put it in the Dakota. Bitching is good.
However, a T56 tranny costs considerably more. Would you have still bought your Dakota if it were lets say 2000 dollars more onto the MSRP? I already know the answer to that, yes. But that's here, what about the majority of R/Ts out there that might not want to spend all that extra money for a six speed. But then, they might look at other vehicles instead.
Would we have fewer R/Ts and then the line maybe cancelled because of the lower sales? Undoubtedly, your insurance would be higher.
Does the majority ask for it? I don't believe they do. Dodge pays people very well for this kind of market information and if the majority demanded and were willing and able to accept the higher cost, then without a question, Dodge would do it.
A six speed sounds nice, but I think we need to look at the bigger picture. A six speed just can not appear in thin air. Now, what if someone or a shop were to make a kit and sell that? They would probably be able to make up their costs a lot easier than Dodge would. Instead of demanding Dodge to do it, why not demand KRC, Bernd or one of those groups to do it?
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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dweishaar
GenIII
9/09/2002
00:04:06
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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i have a 4.7 5spd, and i'd get a 6spd if one was offered..in a heartbeat.
One Eyed Fox
The Baja Dak
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paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2002
00:22:27
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Like I said in my other post, I am considering getting a Dakota next summer.
I saw that some came with the 5.9 but a lot more come with the 4.7 new breed.
So what's the story. Does the 4.7 new engine compete as good as the 5.9?
I am sceptical, but look at Ford. The old Windsor designed 5.8 Liter is very weak to the new Triton 4.6 or especially the Triton 5.4
So, what I was thinking of was to find a 5.9 Liter Dakota if available by 2003 or 2004 model but hey maybe if it's like Ford I'm better off with the new engine anyway as far as power and efficiency goes.
Any feedback would be great and appreciated.
By the way. I laugh at low riders and people who add decals to their cars/trucks that don't belong. This goes for people who simply add a R/T decal to a truck/car that is not a R/T and especially the morons in my area who are buying the decals from Checker and putting them on the wrong car/truck. i.e. I see R/T decals on their Chevy S-10. I saw a si-R logo on a old Nissan 280Z and last night I saw a TypeR decal on a Nissan truck, etc etc etc. Are there idiots like that all over or is just here in Phoenix? Most of them don't read English I think!
To know what I am talking about check out my site http://www.paysonarizona.net/ and go to the "stupid cars" area.
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yates-in-DE
GenIII
9/09/2002
02:36:51
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Message:
Dude,
As far as the 4.7L vs. the 5.9L it really comes down to if you want a stick or Auto. I always get a stick and it wasn't available in the 5.9 CC (R/T). The Power difference in the 2 engines is minimal, but the fuel milage is the kicker. I get 20+ mpg even with some mods. The 5.9L gets crappy milage in most cases. You can get all kinds of arguments on both sides here, so listen close. You can see what I've done with mine at my web site, MY TRUCK.
On the subject of web sites, I visited yours, PAYSON.NET. Pretty cool, I understand about not understanding. I'm in Germany and the German Polizei would have no part of that crap here.
The funniest is the LOCAL PIMP MOBIL. HA!
Later and enjoy the heat,
MyVW Killer
Lynn
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AlmightyDart
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2002
06:43:29
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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DakTer you shouldn't even compare the R/T to the Lightening. We all know its MOPAR or NO CAR. I would rather spend my hard carsh on my vehicle then by a FORD. MOPAR are the greatest, add a lil tweaking here and you have a torque monster, street machine!
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Bobross
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2002
15:38:55
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Comparing the 4.7 to the 5.9 would be like comparing the ford 5.8 to the new 4.6OHC. 2 totally different types of engines... The actual comparison should be the 4.7 to the 5.2... the 5.9's have the new 5.7's to deal with.
Ford: 5.0---5.8 (Push Rod)
4.6---5.4 (OHC)
Dodge: 5.2---5.9 (Push Rod)
4.7---5.7 (OHC)
I would list chevy but since I dont know a whole lot about there modular line I wont be able to include them, but you get the idea. That list is more the comparison than smaller vs larger.
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paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2002
20:51:29
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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That's my idea right there.
When I was comparing the larger Ford 5.8 to the new 4.6/5.4 I was mentioning the fact that the new smaller overhead cam engines made MORE power and got better gas milage.
I wanted to know if that was similar to the Dodge i.e. the 5.9 vs. the new overhead cam 4.7, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4.7 out perform the 5.9 with some work and retain better gas milage.
With your feedback it will help me decide when I trade my car next year.
And problems with your rides, or from aftermarket equipment let ne know so I can avoid them my self.
BTW, nice truck yates.
Whatever I do buy, I expect it to handle a supercharger. Nothing beats being blown :-)
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xplikt
GenIII
9/09/2002
22:33:48
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Message:
"I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4.7 out perform the 5.9 with some work and retain better gas milage"
Thems fightin' words eround these parts.
Make sure you get the 3.92 gearing and LSD, it's one thing you wont be unhappy with.
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out, straight piped 3rd cat, turndown tip
Hotchkis swaybars and springs
Bilstein custom tuned shocks
Roadmaster Active Suspension
Shaved emblems and antennae
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2002
22:53:04
| Hahahahaha
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"I wouldn't be surprised to see the 4.7 out perform the 5.9 with some work and retain better gas milage."
NOPE! Can't be done! ;>)
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Duner
'00 CC 4.7 Turbo Dakota 5-speed
12.55 @ 108.82mph
14-20mpg (depending upon self control)
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paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2002
23:06:53
|  RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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Cool.
What is the other gear options just so I know what they offer?
The last Dodge truck I had was an older late 80's. I lived where you didn't have emmisions.
It had went through 4 tranny rebuilds (904) then my Dad let me have it after the 318 threw a rod.
That was the first time we had a Dodge V8 bite the dust.
So I threw in a 360 bored .30 over with a performer intake, a decent cam shaft and a Holley Carb, etc. I drove it as it went through another tranny. The rear gear ratio was a crazy 273. That was total B.S. It did 60MPH in first gear and I somehow still kicked butt over a lot of other trucks. Someone talked me out of it before I had a chance to change the gears. If I would have had anything above 3.50 gear ratio I would have kicked the current stock R/T truck's butt easy!
Oh yeah, the new owners, even though I told them to change the gears first, used it to tow a Horse trailer and smoked the tranny LOL! That 904 tranny is too weak especially with crappy highway gears!
As I said before, I was old school. Today and with emmisions I can't just throw cams and intakes, etc on engines and get the 300+ H.P.
Bummer... That's why it will be blower time if I buy a new one. :-)
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2002
23:22:47
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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If you buy a new truck - make sure it has the 3.92 gears. The other option (standard) is the 3.55 gears.
I didn't think they had any emission testing in Payson.
If you wanna watch a bunch of quick Dakotas playing at the track...... come to the Truckin' Nationals at Firebird raceway. October 19-20. We should have roughtly 30 Dakotas and a handful of Lightnings out there..... and maybe some Chevies too?
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paysonbadboy
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
9/09/2002
23:49:36
| RE: Dak RT vs Lighting
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WOW. Are a lot of you from here in Arizona?
By the way, I am no longer in Payson. I could register something up there still if I absolutely needed to.
My Nissan doesn't have to have emissions for several years. So If I do anything to it, the next owner would suffer. But maybe I'm not mean LOL!
www.paysonarizona.net
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