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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
10:39:16
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 Subject: Combo's
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O.K. so I at least know that i'm planning on getting the JBA headers here soon. I also know that most of the air intakes that attach directly to the throttle body have about the same performance. My question is...what is the best catback to match up to the headers and that will give the best exhaust flow provided by the air intake and the jba headers. I'm guessing that the JBA evol would work best but I don't think there is one yet for the 4.7L. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
'00 4.7L SLT LS CC 3.92's 5 spd
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
11:06:20
|  RE: Combo's
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I guess my question would be whether you were looking for increased performance or increased sound. (yeah, I know.... both?) hehehe Nothing you can do to the exhaust will match the performance that a reprogrammed PCM will give you. These 4.7s don't respond to mods like other vehicles have in the past. The PCM has such tight control over all of the parameters, that almost anything you change will slow it down. Changing the PCM is what is needed to wake the 4.7 up.
I realize that this probably isn't what you wanted to hear.... but you said ANY suggestions would be appreciated.
I don't have the number right in front of me.... but contact Mike Leach company. For the price of those headers you can get 25 hp instead of 3.
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
11:23:07
| RE: Combo's
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So yer saying i'd have to take out the PCM and send it to some one?
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
11:26:11
| RE: Combo's
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Increased performance by the way. Sound is trivial. I'd rather them (being whoever I happen to race) not hear me coming.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
11:38:12
| RE: Combo's
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Yes, you would have to send your PCM to them to have it reprogrammed. You wouldn't be disappointed!
I put a Mopar 3" cat-back system on my truck and it slowed it down by 3 tenths at the track. I also didn't like all the noise that it generated, so I threw away the big Gibson muffler that came with it and put a 70 series - 3 chamber Flowmaster on it instead. It was still slower than the stock exhaust was... but it sounded nice.
Matt Barrett is running a Leach PCM in his RC 4.7 5-speed and he went 14.23 with slicks in his.
I was running a very similar PCM in my CC 4.7 5-speed and went 14.63 on my street tires. Slicks would probably have put me at high 14.40s or low 14.50s.
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
11:45:18
| RE: Combo's
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So how long would it take to get the thing reprogrammed? And why doesn't anyone just offer a PCM upgrade? Do you have to run higher octane gas once the PCM is reprogrammed?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
11:51:42
| RE: Combo's
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The PCM has the vehicle mileage and VIN programmed into it. If somebody were to offer complete PCMs, they would have to be flashed with this additional info. That's the way the Mopar Performance PCMs were handled. I just bought a separate PCM. I had my vehicle's info flashed into it at the dealer, then I sent it for the reprogram job.
They recommend that you run higher octane fuel after the PCM change. I didn't unless I was towing a trailer behind mine. The only time it ever pinged without the premium was when I was towing a heavy trailer.... and then only if I tried to use 5th gear. Other than that I just used regular unleaded. I figured that it didn't ping..... why spend the additional money.
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Jon
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
11:57:49
| RE: Combo's
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I have a stock Dak 4.7. I just put a 40 series Flowmaster on it. This is for sound I was aware of the power loss as I am expecting to make more mods. Will the PCM mod make more power with the exhuast? About how much does the reflashing cost?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
12:16:20
| RE: Combo's
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I believe the cost is $400 from Mike Leach. My truck didn't overcome the loss from the 3" exhaust until after I ported the throttle body, changed the air intake system and also replaced the catalytic convertor with a 3" MorFlow. It still didn't have as much low-end torque, but it made up for the loss with additional power at the higher rpm ranges.
And then of course now the truck is really benefitting from the big exhaust with the turbo in place.
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
12:18:06
| RE: Combo's
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I don't have time to send away my PCM. I live in Florida. To be without a vehicle is like the end of the world.
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ZenDak
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
12:20:40
| RE: Combo's
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I'm looking at having my PCM reflashed too.
Dunner...How much did it cost you to purchase a new PCM, and have it reflashed? I take it you did that so you'll have a stock PCM too.
Can they do it over a weekend, cause I a daily cruiser.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
12:37:28
| RE: Combo's
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Originally, I sent my PCM overnight to the guy.... he reprogrammed it and sent it back that afternoon - so the truck was only down about two days total. Then I wanted a change made. I overnighted it to him and it took 5 days to get it back. The truck sat idle for the whole 5 days. I ended up having to rent a car for the last couple of days.... I needed wheels for my work!
My recommendation would be to just rent a cheap car for a few days (or borrow one)..... just in case the PCM didn't come back as quickly as it's supposed to. Even with the additional cost of a rental car..... the performance gain from reprogramming the PCM is still cheap compared to a set of headers that only get you 3 hp.
When I put the turbo system on, the ignition timing was too agressive with the custom PCM. I knew I didn't want to give it up and also didn't want to park the truck while I waited for it to get changed. My only alternative was to purchase a new PCM from the dealer. It cost me $425.00. That was painful but necessary. I needed to know how the turbo worked with a stock PCM anyway..... I just didn't want to pay that much to find out!
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
12:51:45
| RE: Combo's
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Duner, what about the Mopar performance computer? KRC performance sells them for $330+$25 to have it flashed. Wouldn't this be the same as having my computer reprogrammed?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
13:23:59
| RE: Combo's
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Yes.... it WOULD be exactly the same. That would definately be the way to go....Except for one minor problem. Mopar Performance didn't release the PCM for the 4.7 engine. It's my understanding that the program you get from Leach was intended to be the Mopar Performance program. For whatever reason, the product was cancelled. Now we have to jump thru all kinds of hoops in order to get one.
I have had a very difficult time with all of these "discussions" about how the 4.7 is lacking in torque and power compared to the 5.9. All of those are based upon what you get from the factory initially. Once the PCM is reprogrammed, it's an entirely different deal. I just wish everyone could be given the opportunity to drive a 4.7 with one of these programs. It puts a smile on your face to be sure.
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
13:25:01
| RE: Combo's
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damn nevermind. the pcm's are for older Dak's. They do PCM flashing too.
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
13:28:07
| RE: Combo's
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So how much did your new PCM cost? I'd be easier for me to buy a new one and have it sent away probably. I could just keep my old one as a spair.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
13:32:28
| RE: Combo's
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The cost for the stock PCM from my dealer was (gulp) $425.00. Isn't that crazy? You could buy a performance one with the special program cheaper than you could buy a stock one.
That's why the rental car deal is probably a better way to go.
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
13:41:31
| RE: Combo's
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damn that's $825 dollars. Doesn't anyone else carry them?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
13:57:00
| RE: Combo's
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The problem is that nobody but Mopar has the PCMs.... and there aren't many alternatives to the custom reprogramming when it comes to changing ignition timing and fuel curves for these engines. There are other alternatives, but the price jumps quite a bit. $2600 for a F.A.S.T. system and you could change anything you wanted when you wanted. Split Second has a new box out that allows you to change the fuel mapping. But a large benefit of the custom PCM is the removal of the speed and rev limiters as well as the changes in ignition timing. Sometimes driving something "Different" means "Expensive"...... Dammit!!!
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
14:55:49
| RE: Combo's
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I hear ya. I guess maybe the PCM flash might have to come last. Maybe by then Mopar will get off their asses and give us a better PCM. Until then I can start with the other stuff. I think I'm gonna get the IAT first.
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
15:24:49
| RE: Combo's
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Why does mopar.com have a part number listed for a performance PCM on their website? Was it a mistake or what? I'll try e-mailing them later.
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bernd
*GenIII*
 
11/14/2001
16:06:12
| RE: Combo's
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They originally were going to release one and then decided not to (EPA had something to do with that).
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/14/2001
16:29:30
| RE: Combo's
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I just found that out. I called mopar. They said they discontinued it because it couldn't pass emmisions. The bastards. They also said they aren't doing computers anymore. period. Guess that ends the PCM fantasy.
Hey Bernd, What is the hypertech fuel controller on you website that isn't out yet? Will it work with the IAT adjuster? When do you expect to release it?
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bernd
*GenIII*
11/14/2001
23:53:37
| RE: Combo's
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Not Hypertech...HyperSpeed. (Different company and different type of controller.)
Yes, it'll work with the IAT Adjuster and we're just finshing up the "details" with the dealer pricing.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/15/2001
17:12:10
| RE: Combo's
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Have you done any testing on the hyperspeed yet? Combined with the IAT it should do well. And from the way it sounds, it's similiar (though not on the same scale) as a PCM upgrade. Am I close at all?
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CThomp
Dodge Dakota
11/15/2001
17:19:17
| RE: Combo's
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10%-15% hp gain!! That's pretty cool if its for real. Man do I hope its for real.
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