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Howard
Dodge Dakota
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5/23/2011
15:47:54
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 Subject: Failed Smog, Now What?
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Took my 93 in for a smog check and they told me it was a "Gross Polluter". Appearantly it failed the 15 and 25 mph tests due to high exaust pollutants. They gave me a V.I.R. and it shows high HC(PPM)126/121, high CO(%)0.59/0.59, and really high NO(PPM)2397/2329. The good news is that it easily passed the visual inspection / functional check. But since I took it to a test only station I wasn't able to get any helpful info with regards to what I needed to do to get the truck to pass. I was only told that the truck was emmitting high fuel emmissions witch may or may not be related to the high mileage 201,150. It might need a new Catalytic Converter but they weren't sure what the problem was exactly. Basically the kid behind the counter, who didn't perform the actual test didn't know poo from poop-ola except that it didn't pass. Anybody here have any experience with smog problems? I thought the truck was running pretty good when I took it in, except when I got in it to leave after the inspection process it acted like it didn't want to start and when it finally did it seemed like it wasn't getting any fuel for a second then when I put it in gear it was sluggish and almost stalled. This was odd because I have never had any problems like that prior to then and I drive the truck every day. I failed to give it a tune up (change the plugs) prior to taking it in which may have made a difference and maybe not. Any suggestions about how to get those high readings down? Now that its been designated a gross polluter do I have to take it to a special station or a referee or what? How long do I have to pass the test now? Some of these questions I will look into myself I just need suggestions to fix the high readings. Thanks
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02dak4.7
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2011
13:18:54
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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I would change spark plugs, wires, cap and rotor, put in a new O2 sensor upstream of the cat and then try again. I wouldn't change the CAT unless if fails the second time, I would say you probably have a bad oxygen sensor which is causing it to run rich.
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Howard
Dodge Dakota
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5/24/2011
15:26:30
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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Thanks for the help Dak. Did the plugs, wires, cap and rotor yesterday. Also checked out the exaust and found that the back side of the muffler has two little pin holes where I found some black carbon built up on the outside of the muffler. These holes look man made since one is at the top and one is on the bottom, both are near the seam and appear to be lined up over top of each other. And they are exactly the same size little holes about the size of a #6 finish nail. I'll replace the 02 sensor today, and try to smog again. What happens if it fails again? Hopefully these changes will take care of the problem so I won't have to worry about failing a second time. I'll let you know how it turns out. Thanks again
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howard
Dodge Dakota
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6/28/2011
19:10:01
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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Unbelievable!!!! Took my truck back to the same shop after replacing the 02 sensor, new air filter, new plugs, wires, cap and rotor, fresh oil, and new coolant and it not only failed but every number measured was higher than the first time it failed. I even ran a can of that "guarantee to pass smog" stuff through the tank before taking back. I think I'm getting hosed by these clowns. When I asked what could be the problem since I already changed all the above all he had to say was "what about the cat, did you change the cat"? NO BECAUSE IT DOESN'T NEED A NEW CATALITIC CONVERTER!!!! The truck is running better than it was the first time around except according to them its an even worse polluter now that its been tuned up and dialed in. Should I pay to have a different shop test it to see if the numbers are the same?
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William Moore
Dodge Dakota
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8/07/2011
18:16:00
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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Did you get it fixed? I'm failing also for high HC and a super high NOX reading. I live in AZ. And there is a shop here that they will guarantee that I will pass or I don't pay for the repairs. If you found out wgat is wrong please let me own so I can try the same thing. Thanks Howard
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Curly
Dodge Dakota
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8/07/2011
21:23:28
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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Why don't you try checking for fault codes.
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William Moore
Dodge Dakota
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8/07/2011
23:57:17
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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My check engine light comes on at start up but goes right out like it should. So could there still be codes with the check engine light off? I don't believe so but I may be wrong. I replaced my EGR and the solenoid made my reading worse go figure so like when it rains then the tornado pops up. So I don't believe I have anything electrical going on like the 02 sensors or the map sensor. I'm wondering if my cat has been punched out or clogged do you think that a new cat could lower my reading from 5.00 down to 3.00 Thanks again for any reply's
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Curly
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2011
12:22:25
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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yes, Even without the light on you could still have
stored/pending codes. It can't hurt to check,
Depending on year you don't even need a code reader.
If I over looked it sorry, but year is your truck?
(You mentioned EGR valve so I'll guess early to mid
90's?)
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Howard
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2011
16:02:10
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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William, No I have not figured out what the problem is. But I did get a full refund check in the mail from the smog shop. After the truck failed the second time I filed a complaint with the B.A.R. They informed the shop that they had made a mistake by marking "NA" on the smog report for the visual and functional test of the EGR system both times. Since my truck does have an EGR system it needed both the visual and functional part of the form to read PASS. This had nothing to do with the high readings recorded during the emmisions test but when I spoke with the BAR representative he was able to advise me that the best thing to do would be to take it to a shop that can do a smog diagnostic so that I know exactly what needs repaired. But since that costs $100.00 I felt like the test only shop that failed it twice should pay the $100.00 or at least some of it. He said he would talk to the owner to see if they would refund me what I had already paid and I'll be damned, They sent me a check. Now since I also own a 94 which passed smog last year I'm going to switch engines before I take it in for the diagnostic pre test and if it passes then I wont have to pay the $100.00 I'll only have to pay for the test. I love it when a plan comes together. As for pulling the codes, when I did mine I got 15 and 25. 15 is the vehicle speed/distance sensor, and 25 is the Idle speed control motor which I changed prior to taking the second test. Before changing that the truck would sometimes idle up and down. Now it idles steady without the surging. But it still failed anyway so that ain't the problem. If the truck fails after I switch the engine then it will no doubt have to be the catalytic. I'll try to post the results once I finally take the time to activate this plan. Maybe when the weather cools off some, then I won't have to spend so much time dragging the old lady around the lake as she tries to figure out how to wake board. Not that I'm not enjoying myself too, but she doesn't have to know why she's taking on so much water. If she would shut her pie hole she might not get dragged so much. Yep, thats a whole nother plan thats comming together nicely. LOL Later
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William Moore
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2011
20:44:01
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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Yea the truck is a 95 I've owned the truck about 18 months only put 3000 miles on it. So what changed? I did put a new after market radiator in the truck did a full tune up even put the Brass contact distributor and rotor new wires and of course new plugs autolite. Also I had a issue when I ran a good tank and a half of Lucas fuel injection cleaner threw it. Was idling at 400 rpms at idle in drive. I thought may of got a bad tank of gas. Not sure. Seems better. Idles around 600 rpms in drive.I thought it should be a bit higher maybe 650 or 700.Well I believe I'll be trying a new cat if there are no codes 100.00 out the door from OReily's/checkers . Also autozone out here will scan my truck for free. I'm going to ride up there today I'll keep everyone updated with the progress. Thanks everyone!!!!
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Curly
Dodge Dakota
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8/08/2011
21:26:47
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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OK key on, key off, 3 times method to check for
fault codes. (need all the info just ask)
Question, Is the cat there and no gutted?
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howard
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2011
10:05:54
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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If this is your first time dealing with smog on your 95 then it must have passed prior to being sold, Right? Here in Ca one can go to the BAR website and look at the smog history of any vehicle simply by putting in the VIN#. You should be able to do the same where you are. Then you will know if it ever failed a prior test, where it was tested and when. If you replace the cat and that changes the emissions enough to pass this time but fails the test in 2013 you might need to replace the cat again if the real problem is something else. The computers in these trucks are designed to make whatever adjustments needed to keep the truck running. You could have a bad cylinder or two and never even notice because the computer is doing its job. Your V8 could be a V7 or V6 in which case changing the Cat isn't going to fix the problem. In fact it could ruin the new Cat just driving it to the smog shop. Thats why the BAR rep told me to get mine diagnosed first. Or you could take the $100.00 in one dollar bills and stuff all the ones in your old Cat then have it tested. What kind of shop would fail it if it starts spitting dollar bills out the exhaust during the test? Plus all that paper is bound to block some of the bad air, Right? Might be as effective as the old banana in the tailpipe only it costs more. Whatever you choose to do, Good luck. Let us know how it works out.
Later
P.S. Don't try stealing my ideas either, OK.
Later
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William Moore
Dodge Dakota
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8/09/2011
14:02:02
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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I would like to say a big thank you to everyone.
Yes my CAT is there. I don't think it was punched out. My pipes are all weld. Yea looks like my truck had problems passing the NOX in 2004,2006 2010 and 2011... Looked ok in 2008 but here in AZ. It's every two years for the smog testing. So I guess it doesn't look very good for me with that many times of failing. since 2004. I do know my truck is pinging during a mid pedal acceleration with 91 octane. It just doesn't feel like a V8 doesn't even feel like the strait 6 in my old Cherokee. Just feels like something is holding my motor back.Probably being so lean. The research I've done.People are saying that with the NOX being so high.My cylinders are getting up near 2500 degrees. Running lean and hot. So would a plugged CAT make my P.C.U adjust enough to keep the truck running by leaning the mixure out so much to cause pinging do to the increased amount of back pressure?I don't believe my motor is low on compression do to no smoking or burning of oil at all.Unless the CAT is total plugged then I might be UN leching a monster on my self with and new CAT.SMOKE SCREEN LOL. Also if my CAT was good wouldn't I leak a small amount of water from my exhaust at cold start up? I've notice ever since I've owned it no water dripping at all. Howard thanks for the jokes I really do need them. I've owned mopar most of my driving years. This truck is starting to get to me. A BIG thanks to all.
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howard
Dodge Dakota
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8/10/2011
03:08:29
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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Sounds like you need to visit the Pic-n-Pull website where you can check inventory for either a Dakota, Grand Cherokee, Ram Van, Etc. Etc. Find a 318 with less miles than the one in your truck pull it and for $180.00 and a little of your own labor your back in business. If you possess minor mechanical skills and can read you can swap engines on the weekend. Sometimes P-n-Pull even has half off weekends. No matter where you look you will not find a better deal than that. I speak from personal experience. When my first engine blew at around 200k I found one in an old cable company work van with only 49,000 miles. You probably won't find that kind of sweet deal but you never know, I certainly wasn't expecting to. In fact I was tired of looking and decided to take a break in the shade. I lit a smoke, slid open the vans side door and nearly poooed myself. Someone had removed the doghouse and both seats exposing the back side of a spotless 5.2 litre 318 and the Odometer read 49,612. Now that same motor has almost 95,000 and still runs great. Hope you come across that kind of deal too. Good luck to you, Let us know how you do. Ya just might be drivin that 95 another 10 years. Somebody once told me that Santa's sleigh has a 318 in it. Of course it does thats why he's never late. LOL... Later
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William Moore
Dodge Dakota
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8/11/2011
19:24:56
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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Well I put a brand new Magna Flow 94006 series CAT on the truck but still failed. My NOX reading is 4.51 max is 3.00 so the new CAT only brought my reading down .49 because my first reading was 5.00 I also read online at a forum that this 5.2 V8 is a pain in the @ss to pass emissions. But I also read that one guy took his 5.2 V8 through and failed but his mechanic turned the over drive off and it passed. Would anyone here waist the 28.00 to try it? I believe I'm going to take it to the shop. I don't think taking a 28.00 chance with just turning over drive off would be a good idea. Unless someone here had to do that and it worked. I only seen one person one a forum that it helped. I may buy a motor but I can't aford that right now. So what else could be failing to make my motor run lean/pinging right at a cold start up because I can start it up first thing in the morning and run it down the road cold and my motor is pinging with 91 octane? Thanks everyone for all your help.
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William Moore
Dodge Dakota
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8/15/2011
17:27:40
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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Well I found out what most of the problem was!!!!
They were testing my truck with the O/D ON. The emissions here is going by city driving not highway.
I went through and passed. with my O/D OFF...I did add 3/4 of a gallon of alc to 6 gallons of fuel. But my over all read was near 2.15 max is 3.00 I don't think the alc helped much due to I didn't let the stuff work long enough to clean the carbon out. Thanks to everyone!!!!! Howard try turning you O/D off...
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howard
Dodge Dakota
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8/16/2011
18:01:15
|  RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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William thats a pretty good discovery on your part. Never thought that the O/D would cause these readings to be so high. Here in California they check the emmissions at 15 and 25 mph which is certainly slow enough to turn the O/D off. Or on if your thinking "light on O/D on". Which as we know is incorrect. Light on O/D off, light off O/D on. Doubt these smog techs know there is a difference. Looks like turning it off cut your reading in half, but my truck measured 2397 and 2329 and the max here is 488 and 518 so cutting it in half isn't going to get me to pass but it will put me closer to passing and below the gross polluter measurement. After I swap engines and take it in I gotta remember to tell the tech to be sure the O/D is off before testing. Glad you got yourself back on the streets William. Again, good lookin out...Which website did you find this little gem at anyway? Spill your source before we drip water on your forehead and prop your eyes open with toothpicks. We have our ways to extract the information, we can do it however you choose. The hard way or the easy way, So whats it gonna be?
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William Moore
Dodge Dakota
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8/22/2011
12:18:34
| RE: Failed Smog, Now What?
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LMAO I believe the web site was dodge forums .com
I googled failed emissions on my 95 dodge dakota NOX. I believe the post that I read was either a dakota,Ram or a jeep which they basicly have the same 5.2 V8 lots of great info here. I found great info at both sites. Did you try the denatured trick? When I found out the emissions wasn't testing my truck correctly I already put 3/4 of a gallon in to 6 gallons of fuel but it was to late. I don't even know if I ran the truck long enough for it to help my readings. only drove the truck about 7 miles before the test. My truck still has a octane ping that I can't figure out. But I'm back on the road. In a year or so if I do keep my dakota I'll have a new crate motor put in. Better that spending 40000 on a new truck. spend the other 35000 in silver lol.I was reading that some gas mpg problems are related to a bad MAP sensor trucks were getting 12 mpg and they replaced the MAP and there MPG went back up to 15 to 17 this is only what I read at dodgeforums.com "poor gas mpg" Howard I was talking to some honest mechanics and they were both telling me that the EGR valve system and the CAT are the only two items that effect NOX What I did if you have a EGR valve I loosened my egr but only loosen to where you can lift it off the intake but the bolts are still threaded in several threads. Had my wife start my truck. I broke the seal of vacuum by lifting the egr valve upward but still being slightly bolted on. This will tell you if the intake is plug. You should hear a great rpm rise plus you'll here a lot of vacuum sucking sound. Hope this helps everyone. Now time to see if there is any platinum in my old CAT! Take care everyone. Email me with any questions and I'll try to help.
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