RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA

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K. Marx Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/14/2003 18:03:59	Subject: RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: Hey, I'm a union worker. I don't have to speed up if I don't want to. If it's not in my job description, I'm not gonna do it. I don't care how much time it might cost. Since I'm a union worker with seniority, you can never fire me or any of my union comrades.
G. Bush Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/14/2003 18:21:51	RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: My Fellow Americans, I want all of you to know that it is the attitude and spirit like that of Mr. Hoss's that has driven companies like Chevrolet and Ford to be built or partially sub-contracted out of the country. This was done only to keep expenses down as well as eliminate the American worker. This is not the idealism of true America. I say Mr. Hoss and those like him are used as crash test dummies in the first shipment of Osamamobiles to arive in the U.S. later this spring and that this traitor imperialist be forced to sell any American vehical in his possesion! Thank You!
sandman Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/14/2003 19:33:06	RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: While the origanal idea of a UNION was a good one it has been bastardized beyond beliefe. It is not the American spirt to protect the jobs of the lazy. It is not the American spirt to protect drunks and drug addicts that do not feel like working. It is not the American spirt to have 4 people doing the job of two. Their are drug rings, prostitution rings and alot of time cheating in the shops. I watch UAW guys smoke crack pipes in their cars on their break and come back in to work. I watch two guy leave to go drinking and run errands while the other two guys on their 4 man team cover for them. When the first two get back the other two take off. Each of the 4 guys only works half of the time they are actualy slotted to work but all get paid for a full day. The origanal idea of the union was great but anymore the UAW is the scourge of the American auto idustry. They UAW is at least half responciable for driveing business to mexico and Canada. I know their are some good hard working UAW members but they are the minority not the norm. The intire system breads lazyness and incompetince. I am a Proud American and I take pride in what I do for a liveing. I try my best to be better at my job every day. I have no union to protect and must actuly do my job to keep my job. America was built by hard working honset men and women. It was about hard work and oppertunity. It was not about drunk, drug addicts and the lazy being over paid, under worked and enjoying more protection then a forgin diplomat.
Slick GenIII 1/14/2003 21:08:47	RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: I find it hard to believe that a discussion of this nature is taking place on a Dodge Dakota V8 forum!! However since the subject of this V8 forum is not about V8's I will put in my tcw. Gentlemen, although there is some issues about Unions here that may or may not be true, just remember that we live in a country where you can have the right to belong to a union. There are literally thousands of Unions in this country and they are not all bad apples. Police, Firefighters and many other people belong to "Unions". Lots of American professionals belong to Organizations that represent them in many ways but they do not use the name "Union" they hide under the disguise of "America medical association or American bar association" or many other "professional organization. Let's get off this crap and get back to Dakota V8's. If we need to discuss political and Union issues then let's create a new forum!!!!!
ProLabor Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/14/2003 21:47:57	RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: Ok, since sandman and others are going to crucify unions, I will in turn take a swipe at Wall Street and "stuffed shirt out-of-touch management" Ya see, the reason unions came into existence was to balance out what had been a pretty one sided set of circumstances. Better wages, working conditions, some degree of job security were some of the reasons unions came into power. And, like Wall Street, they have dug in their heals pretty deep in an attempt to protect their own. Added into this combustible mix is a group called management (VP, Asst. VP, Group VP, Regional VP exeutive Vp, Senior VP and of course the CEO himself). This group works, indirectly, for Wall Street. More on this later. Now once upon a time, you moved up and your company prospered by building a better mousetrap. But along the way, the rules were changed. The rules have been re written so that its better to merge, acquire, join, partner or simply do a leveraged buyout of the mousetrap company. Enter the corporate raider (James Goldsmith, Carl Ichan, et al) These guys would ride in on a white horse, bully their way in by purchasing large chunks of stock, declare that the stock is so undervalued that the only possible way to regain shareholder wealth is to break up the company (and the jobs that go with it)and sell off the pieces (I offer Edward Lewis in "Pretty Woman" as an example). So, thanks to this new breed of leeches being chruned out by Harvard Business School, we have said goodbye to Eastern Airlines, TWA, Hecks Discount stores, Woolworth, and others. Why? Well to fund the corporate cannibalism, companies had to take on HUGE amounts of debt (once the cash on hand and assets were disposed of). Naturally, the companies have to hock everything to stay afloat and with one small downturn in the economy, its to the grave they go. Now for the part of inept white collar management. See, when a CEO crows about how hard he and his hand picked ass kissers work to enhance, grow, regain, shareholder value, take a close look at the fine print. I mean look very closely at their 10K report. Notice, all the way at the bottom of page 345, you will see that by golly, the CEO and his rubber stamp compatriots are also shareholders! And we're not talking a few paltry shares either! Try millions of stock options! Oh, and add in the "loans" and other perks, and before you know it, these clowns are raking in more than the entire GDP of Vietnam. But I digress. Anyway, when the CEO flaps his gums about working for YOU, the humble shareholder, always remember he is also working for himself! Lets go back to the corporate raiders for a moment. Remember how they claim to come take over a company to restore shareholder value? Well, that being the case, I offer the following companies that can surely use some "value enhancing CEO" right about now. Kmart USAirways American Airlines United Enron Sunbeam Global Crossing Adelpheia (BTW....this said saga proves true the edict "only a human shts where he sleeps) Ford Motor GM All the above companies have very depressed stock prices right about now. So where is the corporate raider? Nowhere to be seen. Lets take Kmart for instance (I used to work there in my college days)Right now, they have been delisted from the NYSE. They are going to can 30,000 more workers and close more stores. Where is a Carl Icahn or AL Dunlap? Well, ya see, Kmart has no cash on hand to fund the buyout nor does it have enough assets to support a buyout. In other words, there ain't much meat on the skeleton. The problem is not so much labor as it is Wall Streets rabid demands for growth, dividends, and stock buybacks. CEOs are merely puppets whose strings are pulled by some investment group. And believe me, these people want their money and they want it this afternoon. SoO, insted of more R&D to build a better Dodge or a better slab of steel, we're catering to the money mongers on Wall Street. We seek to increase shareholder value at the expense of the American Dream. We want it all and we want it now. We're in a race to the bottom and the slope has been covered with grease. Why have unions become more and more hard line in recent years? Just look at the massive job losses from NAFTA and the free trade fiasco with China. Sure, some of you will argue that union wages are much too expensive in today's job market. That may very well be true. But look at how today's job market wage scale has been diluted by having to compete with slave labor in China, Vietnam, Mexico, and elsewhere? How is it possible to compete against those wages and government subsidies and earn a decent living? And, for those of you who bitch about union wages being too high, what have YOU done to cut your OWN wage back? Or are you contributing to the so called expensive american labor issue by asking (and getting) pay raises each year. To conclude, I feel I have made my point here. Personally, I have no desire to return to the robber baron days of the late 19th and early 20th century where a select few had so much and the rest had to scrape by. I have no desire to gut our labor and pollution standards to the point we look like Mexico City so I can buy my socks at wally world for a few cents cheaper. I have no desire to move to a two-tiered society like India with its caste system. I'd like to own a house someday, maybe have a family. I can do that when we get back to good old fashioned horse sense and do our jobs well, create good products, and focus on growing our companies (read: hiring more workers thereby increasing disposable income). Let's see if we can recapture some of that spirit that made this country great. Stop being a slave to some analyst who wants a $1.24 per share divedend. Hire CEOs and let them go to Bank of America if they want a loan. Lets stop this nonsense of awarding excessive perks to CEOs who fck up a company (Chuck Conaway, are you, the former CEO of Kmart reading this?)Do we really need an Al Dunlap who got great personal satisfaction at destroying jobs so he could move the stock price up a bit? How many more jobs do we need to send overseas before we get the picture? I hope not too much more because there is a breakingpoint and we're reaching it very quickly. PS......GO GE STRIKERS! If Ge can rack up 14 billion in profit and pay Jack Welch all those perks, surely they can find a way to offer health care.
YouGuysAreSad Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/15/2003 09:43:31	RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: You guy's need to get a life,a political debate on a Dakota forum. Try putting it in the "off topic" forum,with the rest off the pointless threads.
sandman Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/15/2003 19:33:17	RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: You will notice that I actualy named the UAW. I did not come down on any other union. I was once in the IBEW(International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers). I work with UAW personal all day long! I have relatives that are UAW members and it is a 50/50 mix. Half are good honest people and the rest are have done drugs and shown up late for work drunk or stoned on the job. The hard working ones have had to get the dead beat realatives their jobs back for years. I fail to see way people driveing German trucks have any right at all to rag on people that chose to drive Japanesse or German cars and trucks. If you live in a glass house you should not throw stones. Heck if not for BMW, Toyota, Honda, and Daimler Chrysler alot of Americans would not have jobs. If you work at aq Toyota plant you can drive a chevy to work try driveing a Toyota truck the a GM truck plant. Youcan not even drive a Ford or Dodge truck to a Gm Truck plant.
ProLabor Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/15/2003 21:08:37	RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: I stand behind my posting nonetheless no matter who drives what kind of car. I was replying to a union bashing session with a bash against inept management and unadulterated greed from Wall Street.
Sandman Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/16/2003 19:35:10	RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: And I stand behind mine. Unions make up 2% of the American workforce. Toyota plants are staffed with UAW labor and I belive Nissan plants are too. So any mental midget that thinks he knows something about who build what cars and who is union and who is not should do their homework first. Just because the name plate is an American one does not gurantee anything. Like wise an Import name does not mean made outside usa by non-union labor! I will agree that poor management combined with ridiculous(sp) working enviroment that must be tolerated from UAW personel has crippled our auto industry. I will also agree that the share holder motivated decision makeing process is the worst thing that has ever happend to the American auto industry!!!!
ProLabor Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/16/2003 20:31:15	RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: Ahem......I don't recall making any statements about which cars are specifically union made or not. Therefore I am not really sure if and where your response has any merit.
huskr state Dodge Dakota JOIN HERE 1/16/2003 21:29:34	RE: ITS WHAT MADE AMERICA, AMERICA IP: Logged Message: i have not took the time to read all these post on union and such but here in my home town of lincoln we have lost 3 large employers one closed and 2 of them are union goodyear moving to mexico cushmans leving never to return together they employed 3000 + i would like to add that most of the guys who ran the union will still have jobs how about the ones who trusted them to handle this stuff!
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