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Gabriel
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
16:56:51
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 Subject: RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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alex:
Have you installed the cams? What else have you done to the motor?
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
17:55:13
|  RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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I will be installing the cams in July while my parents are out of town. That way if anything goes bad wrong, I have their other car to get me to the parts store.
I have a buddy who has installed them along with the HO intake manifold. He says it is really pretty easy, but he's pretty mechanically inclined. He hasn't gone back to the dyno, but he says it has really picked up the truck a LOT.
As for mine, i have a Volant cool-air tube (www.volantperformance.com). That mates up pretty cleanly to a F&B 70mm throttlebody. I have removed my belt-driven radiator fan and installed a 180 degree thermostat. I have installed a 3" catalytic convertor with 3" pipe from the y-pipe all the way back to a 3" Dynomax cat-back kit. I have Mobil 1 synthetic in the motor and Royal Purple synthetic in the rear end. I have a soft tonneau cover for gas mileage. I have a set of Mickey ET Street drag tires and I am messing around with different bolt-on traction devices. So far that has amounted to a best of 15.18 at 90mph and I still get 21 mpg doing 80 with the windows down. All for a total outlay of about $1200. That's pretty good, i guess. The $400 pcm flash and the $300 worth of cams and intake should make for mid 14's and I shouldn't lose any gas mileage...... That's even better.
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D
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2002
20:52:51
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Message:
ALEX:
do you have limited slip and 3.92's....thats a
pretty respectable time, I have pretty much the
same mods, but have never ran in the 1/4, I
am installing a limited slip, HO cams and
manifold pretty soon also, am seriously
thinking about ASE chip, but dont want to end
up with another gimick bolt on (jet chip) who
is going to flash your PCM, and what year dak
do you have?
D
01/4.7/CC/airaid+3"homebrewed/180stat/Jet2
TBspacer/ported-polished68mmTB/Dynomax
RaceWeldedMuffler+3"catback/NoClutchFan/
DJMdrop3-6
HO cams, HO intake manifold and Sure Grip
Limited slip install soon ! ! !
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
09:35:02
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Message:
I have the 3.55 limited slip. Trust me, you will NEED the LS once you get done with the cams, etc.
With the mods I have already, I can't imagine trying to launch this thing with one wheel....
I forgot to mention that I haven't been to the track with the 3" cat and pipe in place. When I do go to the track the truck usually weighs in at 4150 lbs with me in it. I would love the 3.92 rear, but the gas mileage just ends up too crappy for me. The 3.55 is a nice compromise.
From what I've read online, it sounds like ASE may be your best option. I have a 2000, and I am getting Leach to do mine, but he can't crack any of the 01's or 02's computers. ASE can, B&G won't do any 4.7, and after that I think you may be out of options. You could try to contact SuperChips down in Florida to see what they can do, but I have yet to see anything from them on the new 4.7 PCMs........ These OBD2 computers are just ridiculous when it comes to tuning. I think you'll be surprised at the improvement from ASE. It's not a gimmick from what I can tell.
I will tell you this...... you need to get a 3" catalytic converter. You need to have a muffler shop install 3" pipe from the y-pipe, thru the cat to the front end of your 3" cat-back system. Duner will back me up on this, it is the next most important mod you can do right after the PCM flash. The difference is amazing. From 2500 to 5500 (and maybe beyond) the truck is making HUuuuuuUUUGE power increases. And I picked up 1 mpg (hwy) just from this mod. If you have the pre-cats and the 3rd cat, just have the 3rd cat removed or gutted. That will really do the same thing. It is a must-have.
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Gabriel
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
16:42:59
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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I recently e-mail a service tech at one of the local dealers here in Phoenix... here was his response to the thought of swapping the Dakota cams for a set of HO cam's:
----------------------------------------------
Hi Gabriel,
Sounds like your ideas might be fun but I'm afraid there are several different parts in the 4.7 hi output. Some differences are:
The crankshaft is made of forged steel, case iron on std 4.7, the crank damper is unique to the HO. Main bearings are designed specifically for the HO and are not interchangeable. The HO has pistons that are dome to increase compression to 9.7 to 1. A floating wrist pin joins the piston to the connecting rod, which differs from the pressed-fit pins in the base 4.7. The HO uses unique cylinder heads and as you mentioned cams which by the way cannot be used in the base 4.7, the exhaust valves in the HO motor are unique, as are the valve springs - Chrysler suggest not interchanging parts between these engines.
If that wasn't enought the HO uses a different PCM calibration.
Chrysler COULD restrict your warrenty if your vehicle was modified in ways that were different from produced, especially areas that could change emissions. I know it's tempting but you won't get Chryslers blessings.
Sorry,
Doug h.
------------------------------------------------
Any thoughts?
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Dr0p0ff
GenIII
6/12/2002
17:24:53
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Gabriel, that tech is telling you all the differences between the HO engine and ours. No one is telling you to swap out all the parts, just the cams. The tech is a moron if he can't see that its going to help your engine pick up some more performance. And YOU would be one if u told the people of dodge that you've done it if u take your truck in for maintenance. They can't tell the difference
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
17:27:42
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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My thoughts are this......
Bernd has already posted that there is a dealership in Texas somewhere that is swapping in the HO intake manifold and the HO cams and tweaking the computer to see 35hp gains at the rear wheels.
CW has also posted that the power gains are pretty good, but he's got no dyno numbers to back it up. As for all the other parts that the tech dude listed off, the only one that will raise the performance over what the cams/intake/computer offer is the higher compression pistons. That would be nice to just put in new pistons, but you pretty much gotta diasassemble the motor just to bump the compresssion up by half a point.
Here's the true skinny.... the HO Cherokees come with 270 hp at the crank and the 4.7 Dakotas come with 235. 35 rear wheel horsepower (Bernd's post) equates to about 41 hp at the crank (on a 5-spd truck).
235 + 41 = =/- 275hp. If Bernd's post is pretty accurate, then we can certainly get the same power as the HO Cherokee without all the other specialty pieces the tech guy listed off.
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Gabriel
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
17:54:06
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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IF (this hypothetical)... IF something did happen with the motor after the new cams were installed and the dealer had to take the cams out for servicing, are there any distinguishing marks, part numbers, serial numbers that would alert them as to what was really in the motor?
I really like the idea of adding the cams... it sounds like exactly what I want to accomplish from this motor, but I am trying to weight the risk with the benefit. I don't want to get into a situation where I have to argue with the dealer about whether or not the modifiactions I did void the entire warranty.
Talking to a couple of dearlers, (didn't use my real name) I get the distinct impression that they would fight me REALLY HARD on this issue if ANYTHING in the motor fouled up.
I am still doing the research and weighing the options...
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D
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
18:17:44
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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no part numbers or anything...just order them !
I have mine sitting in my room waiting for
installation.
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Gabriel
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
18:23:57
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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aahhh!!! parinoide!!! ahhhh!!! errrr!!!
I don't know :-)
Maybe I will wait a couple of months to see if someone has any really bad experiences. I won't have time to screw with it until late July anyway.
These cams ARE the stock replacement for the Cherokee 4.7L HO?
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
21:45:02
|  RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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What is the part # for the HO cams and the HO intake????? What is the lowest price yet for these parts? Thanks Guys!!!!
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Gabriel
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
22:04:04
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Talked with another parts guy from a dealer today... he indicated to me that Dodge paints their cams, cranks, ect. with a "weird" colored paint so they can tell when an after market part has been installed.
These cam's that KRC is selling, are they really a DiamlerChrysler part or are they a billet cam with an "HO" grind? If a dealer tech were to take the valve cover off the Dakota, would it be obvious that the cam's had been changed out?
I guess I need to call KRC on this and chat with them on the specifics. Nobody seems to really know what these cam's are. It seems to be some magical secret vodoo cam that provides good results... but what is it!!!
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D
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
22:38:19
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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they are 4.7L HO cams from the Grand
Cherokee 2002.
cams:
53021411 AB
53021412 AB
manifold:
53031739 AD
I got my manifold for $160, and the cams for
$68 each, for the price (heavily discounted)
you cant beat it ; )
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CW
GenIII
6/12/2002
22:53:56
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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No problems yet installed mine Febuary.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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crm
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
23:14:53
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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alex: did Bernd mention which dealership in Texas it was that was doing the swap? as relatively cheap as the parts are, i'd be willing to pay a professional to have them installed for an extra 35 RWHP. i'd even make a little day trip out of it if needed...
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
23:25:00
| Gabriel
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I could be totally wrong - but I seriously doubt that anybody at any dealership would ever even suspect that the cams were swapped. I haven't heard any reports of loping, bad idle, low vacuum or codes from too much overlap..... they are only slightly different in profile. As long as the cam swap is done correctly, there should be absolutely no trace that you ever pulled the valve covers to begin with. Remember, we're talking about cams that were designed to still pass emissions on a 2002 vehicle!
As far as that AZ tech you talked to...... all he will know about it is what they taught him in class. He didn't sound like much of a willing installer anyway. Where are you located in AZ? How much was the installer going to charge for the install? I might be able to line up somebody to install them for you.....
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Gabriel
Dodge Dakota
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6/12/2002
23:43:56
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Duner,
I am in Phoenix... the big furnace... where the air actually cool off after going through the combustion chamber :-)
I appreciate the offer... but it is not the install that is worrying me. My last vehicle was/is a '72 GMC... the only way for me to keep that thing on the road was to wrench on it myself... new motor, trans, brakes, ect.
What worries me is having a problem with the Dakota motor and having to argue with the dealer and run the risk of not having a warranty. I have spent three long years worrying about what else is going to break... that is a hard habit to break.
If there is no/little way that the dealer will "discover" the cam IF something goes wrong then I am all for it... but if the dealer takes the valve cover off because something broke and sees this "wrong" cam in there sticking out like a sore thumb then I am not going to take the risk...
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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6/13/2002
00:30:49
| Go for it!
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Unless the tech goes to all the trouble to find the part numbers on the cams and goes and looks it up on the computer to verify it against the stock numbers, there's no way he will know the difference. When you look at the cams they are still stock Mopar cams. BTW, there's a dealer in town that will be installing the HO cams on some 4.7s before they even leave the lot for the 1st time. Still DC parts, still DC warranty. I'll have to talk to the dealer and see what he says.
When I pulled my stock sport suspension from under the truck and installed the stock R/T stuff the Mopar part numbers were still hanging off all the parts......still looks totally stock when it's up on the lift.
I'd say don't be so paranoid..... go for it! hahaha
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crm
Dodge Dakota
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6/13/2002
01:16:33
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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all this talk about the miracle cams is getting me very interested. if i was sure enough in my abilities i'd be ordering some friday. but, i havent done enough of this type of work to feel confident that i wont bungle something easy and end up fubaring the engine. unless there is a definite way to tell before you crank it up that they are installed right, i just dunno...what are some things that could get messed up if i somehow didnt get em lined up properly or whatever?
and does anyone have pics and a walk-thru of the install? maybe if i see it i could make a better decision about whether to chance it on my own or save up for a pro to install.
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CW
GenIII
6/13/2002
08:58:18
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Duner there is actualy a couple of degrees less overlap acording to the book. Should be good for the turbo. :)
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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6/13/2002
09:06:51
|  RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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The post that Bernd made was here on the V-8 board about a month or two ago. When he posted it, i fired back all kinds of questions and got zero response. I figured that Bernd was going to start attempting to sell the same set-up and therefore was being a little tight-lipped to keep his profit margin up. He didn't say the name of the dealer.
Gabriel: if something happens to your motor that is so catastrophic that they are having to pull the cams to diagnose the problem, then I doubt there will enough left of the cams in the first place to even tell who made them. But they are stock Daimler-Chrysler pieces from a Daimler-Chrysler 4.7 motor that just happen to make a little bit of an improved power curve for our Dakota motors. CW is a Damiler Chrysler technician who has been on the job for 7 years and he had to use a dial indicator and a degree wheel to detect ANY difference between the Jeep cams and the Dodge cams. I really wouldn't worry about it. If you feel like you're just gonna accidentally end up telling the service manager about your hot new cams/intake, then I would think twice. But my suspicion is that you have a better poker face than that. I guess it depends on how many tiems you plan on going to the dealer before your warranty runs out.
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Gabriel
Dodge Dakota
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6/13/2002
11:46:18
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Well... guys, thanks for putting up with the paranoia. I think I am going to go ahead and do it. It won't be for another month or so.
Thanks for the insigts.
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Gabriel
Dodge Dakota
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6/13/2002
12:24:03
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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crm...
Post your e-mail... or e-mail me at lexical24@hotmail.com and I will e-mail you two word documents I found outlining the install of the cams. I think I got it from KRC but I don't remember the website. They will give a good idea on the install. It really does look easy enough.
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Gabriel
Dodge Dakota
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6/13/2002
16:32:57
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Couple of peopel e-mailed me regarding the install instructions. Here are the links FYI:
http://www.speedtweaks.net/Instructions/4.7L Camshaft Installation - Right.doc
http://www.speedtweaks.net/Instructions/4.7L Camshaft Installation - Left.doc
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Matt Barret
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
07:45:13
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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I installed the HO cams and Intake 3 weeks ago.
Took me about 7 hrs to complete, and that was taking my time. After doing it one time, it could be done in 5 hrs or less easily. Great bang for the buck. Cams were $116, and the intake was around $175. Installation was simple. MUCH easier to swap the cams on a 4.7 than a 318/360. Hope to get back to the dyno soon to see what HP difference it made.
Oh, and just to confirm, my HO cams were marked with a paint marker "HO", I'm sure carb cleaner on a rag would take care of that !
Matt Y2K-HEMI
00'RC 4.7L 5spd
14.23 @ 94.49
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Gabriel
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
12:22:56
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Matt: Thanks for info on the physical appearance of the cam's.
Those of you who have installed the cams, is there a trick to pulling the valve covers off? There are a lot of hoses in covering them and it seems like it might be a tight squeez getting them off.
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Matt Barret
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
13:49:36
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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I know the left side was a tight fit under the wiring harness. The right side was no problem.
You have to remove the oil filler tube, which is very simple. You have to take 2 bolt out of the power steering pump and swing it away from the engine for clearance on the cam bolt.
THE MOST important thing is to make sure you set the engine at TDC and DON'T move it until you are ready to fire the engine up! Its very easy to set the engine at TDC. It does'nt have to be perfectly on TDC. You can rotate the engine by turning the crankshaft bolt until the "V8" is straight up on the cam gear. Then you're ready!!
Matt
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BigRedDak
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
14:23:54
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Matt, where did you get your cams? Was that for both? 200 is pretty expensive, when i see people getting it for alot cheaper. Group buy anybody??
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Matt Barret
Dodge Dakota
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6/14/2002
14:29:53
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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The $116 was for both cams ($58 each) thats pretty cheap! I could'nt believe they were so cheap. When my parts guy told me the price I ordered them right on the spot.
The intake price was a little higher than what I've seen some folks paid, but my parts guy is always hooking me up with other parts, like RT wheels for $120 each .. Clutch/Pressure for $175, etc ... So I did'nt argue over the intake price.
Matt
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BigRedDak
Dodge Dakota
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6/15/2002
01:15:54
| RE: KRC 4.7L cams....
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Where though matt? Local dealer? autozone? what?
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