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kid
Dodge Dakota
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7/07/2009
23:00:17
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 Subject: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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my 01 dak QC 4.7 recently bit the dust
after 260k + and it still ran really good with no major parts placed
my question is exactly the tittle, what are peoples opinion of the two
is the the 5.9 mpgs worth the added power?
whats the durability of the 5.9?
just peoples real-world opinons so i can get an idea if i should go big or just stick with the 4.7
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wow
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2009
06:25:29
|  RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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In my world a 5.9 is a cummins so I,m going to say that you are talking about a 360 gas. Its a antique.. You would be better off trying to get the new H.O.-4.7 to run in your older chassie. Lets here it from the heavy hitting mopar fans-Who can get the new engine to run in the older trucks???
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Kowalski
GenIII
7/08/2009
07:39:50
| RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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Are you willng to also have to change the PCM and the transmission, if an automatic - for a bit more torque from the 5.9 ? That's the question you need to ask yourself.
You won't find a PCM to integrate the newer 4.7 into your chassis and still have gauges and MIL work correctly. Wow's suggestion will be a nightmare if you have to pass emissions, as the MIL functioning is part of that test.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Kid
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2009
08:54:41
| RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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Message:
Sry, I should have been more clear.
The 5.9 will be departing a 00 durango so I would have
everything I need.
As it is an older model truck I'm not willing to dump a ton of
money into it. Maybe a moderate amount of work.
I'm just wondering if the 5.9 (360) would realy help the QC
get into traffic n keep up or am I just looking at pissen money
away to the oil industry???
Thakx for the replies already
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Kowalski
GenIII
7/08/2009
11:00:26
| RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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Are you sure the '00 Durango PCM will work in a '00 Dakota ? Not saying it won't, but I'm not sure it will. I'd guess you're looking at maybe giving up around 3 mpg for the extra torque. Your QC probably weighs a bit more than my RC4x4, but even with the extra weight of a plow frame, front diff, transfer case and fifth wheel hitch on my truck, I never had any problems with the 4.7 getting into traffic or keeping up. Quite the contrary, I find I am usually setting the pace. Maybe your 4.7 wasn't running as well as you thought ?
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Kid
Dodge Dakota
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7/08/2009
12:37:30
| RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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All the gauges are the same, I'll look into it some online.
And you might be right about the slow breakdown in
performance going unnoticed. Running good as in it didn't
use/leak any fluids and still had 140-145 compression. To me
260k is great for a domestic gass motor.
I read a post further down about the mpg of the R/T ( what it
sounds like I'd really be doing is +wheight -"performance" ecu
) and I'm not falling in love with 17 mpg.
As for traffic on the gulf coast is insaine with tourists and
newer cars n trucks.
(sorry about the odd returnlines as I'm writen this from my
phone )
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Kowalski
GenIII
7/09/2009
07:36:06
| RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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No problem. I had a typo in post above, should read '01 Dakota. Some things to check :
Same emissions package ? This can affect the # of cats and sensors, wiring harness for that could be different.
TCM included in PCM ? At some point the TCM is seperate, not sure which year that changed. I think if the TCM is seperate, the # of conections to the PCM is one less ?
Does either vehicle have a factory alarm ? There can be a compatability issue if one does, but i forget if it is the donor or receiving vehicle that matters.
And while I've swapped a 4.7 PCM with no problems, those swapping 5.2 PCMs have reported having to flash the vin into the donor PCM. I'd suspect the 5.9 is similar enough that it could be like that. Also not sure if a 5.9 PCM would work with a 4.7 vin ? The vin identifies the motor. Let us know what you find out about that if you try the swap.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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totally
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2009
11:56:00
| RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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I think you missed WoW,s point- The ford and chevy turner shops are swapping in the 4 cam cobra motors and LS engines into older vehicle, all over the place. Where are the mopar shops leading the way to swapping in the newer engines into the older vehicle? this is why mopar is last dog in the fight. Hell, even the ricers are swapping new engines into old hondas(and no mil lite...). The 4.7 is a good stong engine but mopas never gave it upgrade support. Nether did the aftermarket.(try finding a kenniebell kit). So- I second the call to the mopar guru,s to come up with the needed harness to swap in the new HO 4.7 into the older dakotas. The engines are available- mechanically its straight forward-and there is a market for the needed harness. There must be a mopar tuner willing to step up to the plate and lead the way!
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Kowalski
GenIII
7/09/2009
13:22:06
|  RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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I wouldn't say we missed that point; that wasn't quite what it seemed like kid was asking when he started this thread. Maybe you should start your own thread on that ? I'll bet that is already possible if you had the $$$ to throw at it. Kid said this was an older truck he didn't want to put a lot of money into. Maybe you missed that ?
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Kid
Dodge Dakota
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7/09/2009
16:08:27
| RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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Kowalski's right, I'm not looking to bulid a QC 1/4 mile beast,
and it dosent make sense to put a $5000 motor in a $5000
truck. ( and that's being generous ) factor in todays economic
status and your just pissen in the wind. Those shops are in
compitetion with each other all the time and must prove
themselfs every chance they get. I'm not a shop, I have a
drive way and some hand tools and a good all-around truck
that needs a motor.
I haven't found any electrical diagrams for the 00 durango 5.9
(360) on the net to compare, yet. But I'm looking. If any one
knows where to find one on the net that's not a DL it would
be a big help.
But the control modules and other elec. componets are no big
deal because the donor will be right next to my dak so if I
need it I can pull it righty away. The bays are very similar too,
at a glance a lot of stuff looks simmilar.
But you bring up a good point about chassis elec. being tied
in with the PCM. All the more reson I need a wiring diagram.
I'll look over mine tonight for dak n see what all looks like it
ties in to the PCM.
So far i feel like the 4.7 is more balanced ( power vs. mpg )
and obviously last a while and would be a cheaper fix. While
the 5.9 basic internals are plentiful and parts are generaly
cheaper and it has more power. I'm still middle of the road
without all the info.
Thakx
I did find a long post about a 5.7 going into a dak, totaly, but
that's irelevant right now.
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SxtJDK03
GenIII
7/09/2009
16:22:44
| RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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Kid,
I know this isn't the same deal as what you are doing, but I just finished my 3.9v6 to 4.7 swap about a day ago. First off, if you are going to do the 5.9 swap, you will have to make sure that you do get the correct harness, PCM, and on top of that I would first lay everything out once you find you have the right parts. I neglected to do that during my swap and found that the connector next to the passenger headlight that connects the fuse box harness to the engine harness was not the same, thus, I had to do a lot of splicing and connecting of wires with butt-connectors. Other than that right there the whole thing was really easy.
Oh and if you need it, I do have a complete FSM for the dakota on my computer and if you want I can email it to you.
The only reason I am saying anything is because going from a 4.7 to a 5.9 would just about be the same as going 3.9 to 4.7 since the 3.9 and 5.9 are almost identical. Keep in mind mine is a manual tranny so that made things a bit easier.
Wheel 'til it breaks!
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SxtJDK03
GenIII
7/09/2009
16:25:22
| RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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Message:
Also, I agree on the 4.7 being overall more balanced in the mpg vs power aspect. Already I am getting better gas mileage than I was with the V6, which was only 50 pounds lighter than the new motor. I think a lot of that has to do with the power to weight ratio. Let me know if you need the manual.
Wheel 'til it breaks!
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Kid
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/09/2009
16:34:51
| RE: 4.7 vs. 5.9
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I've got what I need for the dak but I'm stumped on finding a
wiring diagram for the Durango. And I feel your pain cause i
hate wiring issues, "if it don't plug in it don't go there".
It's not my first rodeo, me and a buddy swaped neon motors
with the ol' side-by-side pick n pull, in a few days, and we
ran across wiring issues. This is another reason I'm still leary
about jumping on this 5.9 (360)
thanks for the post if you have the 00 Durango suff let me
know
thank
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