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Mig-29
Dodge Dakota
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5/29/2002
00:08:39
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 Subject: High oil pressure on 4.7
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I have a 2002 dak qc with the 4.7
I have noticed that when the engine is warm the oil pressure gauge runs at the very top of the normal range anytime the rpm's run at 1300 rpm or higher. When I say the very top of the normal range I mean that the needle is exactly in line with the slash mark on the high side of the normal range. The pointer will run a little lower than the top or the normal range when the rpm's are less than 1200 rpm but jumps right up to the very top of normal when the rpm's get to 1300 rpm. I drove another new 4.7 dak and the gauge did run a little lower at 1300 rpm but it did run to the top of normal at about 1800 rpm's. So my question is has anybody else noticed this or could this be a problem? I am runing 6 quarts of 5W-30 castrol and the dipstick reads at the top full mark so it is not overfilled. I want to go to 10W-30 for summer but I am concerned that it may raise the pressure even higher. So what do you all think ?
Thanks Mig
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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5/29/2002
01:13:35
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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you should be ok, as long as you don't overfill it. Give the motor a few more months to break-in. I would highly recommend staying with 5-w30, these newer motors have tighter clearances. The manual even recommends sticking with 5-w30. maybe after 75,000 then I would think it'd be ok but for now stick with 5-w30.
but it's your truck
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JJ
Dodge Dakota
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5/29/2002
08:26:26
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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My Y2K 4.7L oil pressure runs high as well. I now have around 30,000 miles and no change. I have run Castrol Syntec 5W-30 since my 1st oil change.
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Graphite
*GenIII*
5/29/2002
08:40:53
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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It is normal. Mine does that as well.
Nothing runs Like a Deere (R)
2002 club cab 4.7 v8 4x4 Graphite /silver
2002 quad cab 4x2 v6 Atlantic blue/silver
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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5/29/2002
15:56:41
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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At idle (500 rpm's) mine is just above the low/ normal line. but as soon as I give it gas it goes right up to the high/normal line.
1st oil change: 540 miles (reg oil)
2nd oil change: 2976 miles (reg oil)
3rd oil change: 5922 miles (Mobil-1 full synt)
4th oil Change: 9390 miles (mobil-1 full synt)
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2002
21:19:39
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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Clevite 77, I would love to know how you determined that it would be ok to switch from 5W-30 to 10w30 at 75,000 miles. I will be anticapateing your reply. I am sure this will be good. What exactly are the clearances in the 4.7? How do they compare to the old LA engines. What clearance = 5w30 what =10w30 what =15W50??? How is it that my 16 year old truck can handle 5w30 to 20w50 with no problem????? I bet the Viper's clearances are close to those on the 4.7 and in some cases they might even be tighter. How is it that it handles 15W50. According to Mopar magizine the only part of this (4.7) engine clearanced for 5w30 is the oil pump!
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2002
21:42:54
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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Well I used an "about" mileage, I don't read a bunch of magazines, I went to college to become an auto tech, once graduated I was hired to be a product specialist on the bearing team. cold starts and lots of miles take it's toll on bearings. bearings don't last forever, that's why I have a job. Once the clearances become "less" it's easier for the oil to get down into the clearances. Sure 20w-50 will work on the truck but, when the trucks new it takes a while to get up into the journals, and the bearings.
Look I'm not out to say you have to do this and you should, and I'm sure that the 5w-30 will work fine until she blows, but I feel more comfortable using slightly thicker oil as the truck gets older.
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Gary F
Dodge Dakota
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5/31/2002
21:52:12
|  RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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What's high oil pressure using that un-numbered gauge? Who really knows what the pressure is unless you put a mechanical gauge on it?
It doesn't matter to me as long as the gauge is reading something. I'm even getting used to the wacky low reading first after start up and then increasing in a few seconds.
Gary
'01 Dak 4X2, reg cab, 4.7L, 5 spd, 3.92 LS
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Bob W
GenIII
5/31/2002
22:02:24
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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It’s not really the clearances that are important it’s the tolerance stack up. If you reduce the variation in the pistons, rings, engine block bores, Crankshaft, bearings and connecting rods on and on and on, you will have a reliable and smooth running engine, you could change the clearance +/- .0015 and it would not make any difference. But tight tolerances require process controls that can be expensive in the short term and long term (if you don’t change your image.)
Gibson headers, Gibson Cat-back, Volant cool air system, 180 stat, Jet stage II chip, ARE Lid
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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6/01/2002
10:32:15
|  RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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I was also a tech!!I am also college educated. I have one degree in Aerospace Technology and one in Marketing. I am also in the auto industry and give tech. advise to dealerships, legal departments, and employee's. I have seen trucks and cars with 80,000 miles that had no measurable signs of wear. They still specked out within new part spec.'s. I agree that it takes longer for thicker oil to get to the journals it also takes more to force it out under sever loading. I have never seen a car run on convention 5w30 or 5w20 last past 120,000 miles without sever wear. It has been my experince that 5W oils lead to accelerated ring and valve guide wear! Mobile on 15w50 will pour down to some rediculsely low temp like -45 F. Mobile on 10w30 will pour down to like -64 F I think. Until this new truck I would never run 10w30 on the HWY in warm weather that was winter oil only!! I know that in the last few years thin is in with oils! This is a new trend their has been over 100 years of thicker oil protects better. My family has put 300,000 on a number of vechile with very little to no oil burning at all and this was down with 20W50 dino oil in warm months and 10w30 in winter. I have looked at the spec.s on the 4.7 in the service manual and the bearing clearances are not that much different from the old LA engines. I have opions and so do you. Thats great but my godness you make sound like his engine is going to self destruct if he puts 10w30 in it. I should apoligisse!!! It's not that I do not like you I am just very biased against anyone that recomends 5W oil. I saw so many Opel and GM products die an early death due to GM's recomendation of 5w20 oil in the early 1980's. I have also seen fords ran on Motorcraft 5w20 wear out prematurely in recent years. I have one friend that has gone through 3 engines under warranty with dealership oil changes with motorcraft 5w20. He is realy easy on his car. He lives in Savanha Georgia and drive alot on the HWY. So I am a little biased against thin oil!!!! So please do not take this as a personal attack!
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Clevite 77
Dodge Dakota
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6/01/2002
12:34:57
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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Sandman, thanks for replying, and actually I did take it as a personal attack, but didn't realize you were just expressing your opinion. It sounds like your a very intelligent person and I highly respect your opinion. I think it all boils down to driving style, climate, the way you drive it, if you tow a lot, and weather or not the engine is a good design. I'm sure you can agree with me when I say that, an engine that does mostly short trips, especially in the winter, will not last nearly as long as one that does mostly highway driving. I live in MI and I also question the 5 weight oil myself, I'm also used to running 10w-30 (religiously) but the owners manual says to use 5 weight. If our summers were to get any warmer than they do, I would most likely switch over to 10 weight. My biggest concern is the cams. They are the last thing to get oiled. A 5w-30 will be much easier to get to the cams than a thicker oil. And since the cams have no bearings, cold starts with thicker oil (over long period of time) will take its toll on the housing bore of the cam.
You really have to use what's better for your usage of the engine. I apologize if I had steered anybody in the wrong direction and thank you Sandman for your input.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
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6/01/2002
23:49:44
|  RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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I lived through the 5w20 era's with GM and Adam Opel vechiles so I am against any recomendations for anything less then 10W30. I consider 10w30 marginal at best. Redline oil recommends against 5w30 more then one private Amsoil site recomends against fords and hondas recomendation of 5w20. The only reason for 0W30 and 5w30 are for better fuel economy for Cafe standards and slightly higher HP figures.Their are bearing for the cam. They are aluminum and are cast into the head. They are repairable but it is not easy. The Japanes have used this design for years. I have this same set up on my old Toyota. It has held up for 16 years. I put a performance cam and tripple valve springs in this engine years ago and when I removed the stock cam I noticed that their was quite a large amount of oil trapped between the caps/bearings cushioning the cam journals. I can now run this truck up to 10,000 RPM's.The number one cause of bearing failure with this design is repeated high RPM reveing of the engine with no load. You see this alot on imported used engines from Japan. I always time how long it takes to reach full oil pressure from the time the engine starts. So far with 10W30 it has never taken longer then 13 seconds(4.7) to reach full pressure. When I was in flight school if the oil pressure on the aircraft engines was not up in 30 seconds we had to shut down that engine. So I always time it. I have always told my wife not to put the truck in gear until the oil pressure comes up. I will say this I do not have as much of a problem with 5w30 if it is synthetic compared to conventional. I would love to see a vechile run 500 hours at 120++ mph with 5w30 conventional oil!! If you own a Porsche or the newest engine that harley has it has passed the Düsseldorf test. They used to run on the autobahn at close to all out switching out drivers for 500 continious hours. Now they do it on a Dyno and simulate hills buy increaseing the load. I still have to say that I have never in my 14 years as a Tech ever seen any car or truck hit 300,000 miles on 5w30 oil. Most 5w30 oils boil off at rather low temps leaveing behind ashphalt,varnish, viscosity additives and other unwanted products chokeing off oil galleys and dry rotting seals. I am considering Amsoils new Series 2000 Ow30 for this winter with great caution. If I try it I will be takeing a sample ever 1000 miles to make sure my engine is not self-destruting. If all of their marketing hype pans out I will change my tune but not till I see the lab results. I drive 80-90MPH on the HWY 60-80 miles per day.
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handi2
GenIII
6/02/2002
17:18:59
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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My opinion from hot Florida.
10w30 in the few winter months.
10w40 or 20w40 in the summer.
That's what I will use in my new truck.
In all the other vehicles I have ever owned I have used 20w40 Castrol year round. I'm 47 so I have gotten 200+ thousand miles on many different vehicles. Foreign and domestic.
My son is still driving my old Sanoma with 188K miles on Castrol 20w50 since new. Back and forth from FL to TX many times. Only replacing batteries when needed.
http://photos.yahoo.com/handi254310
2002 Quad Cab SLT Plus 4.7 Every Available Option
Access Tonnoue Cover/Bedrug/360 Air Intakez/Jet Stage 2
180 Robertshaw/Roadmaster Active Suspension
Street Scene Grill Inserts
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gijeff
Dodge Dakota
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7/16/2002
21:02:31
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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I have the exact same symptoms as Mig-29 in my 2001 Dakota QC 4.7 4x4 (32000 miles). Normal oil pressure when idleing maxed to the top slash when rpms are above 1500. When I showed it to the Dodge service rep he called the dodge tech people for advice. they told him to change the pressure sensor. When that didn't fix the problem they did a gauge check on the oil pump and the heads(?) and the pressure was 80-85 when RPMs were 2000 or above. The techs had him change the oil pump and then the guage to try to correct this. When none of this corrected the problem the service rep actually told me that he thought the engine was defective and would need to be replaced. After 17 days in the shop and three parts changes to try to fix an apparent problem the tech people came back and said the condition was normal and the engine was just "unusually tight"(their words not mine). They refuse to do any other repairs on the engine which is under warranty for only 4000 more miles. I have spoke to several Dodge service reps since then and one has said he experiences the same thing in his Durango (4.7). I still am unsure wether this is an acceptable condition or if I need to pursue action. But I am comforted by those that say it is acceptable. Thank you gentlemen.
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gasguzzler
GenIII
7/16/2002
23:35:05
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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hey guys,
I too have a 2002 QC 4wd that has the oil gauge pegged at the high end all of the time. I have owned it since 5/29/02, and after 6400+ miles, have not seen or heard any difficulties. I did need to change the air filter yesterday which i thought was surprising, but other than that no problems with the engine. If I see anything, I'll post again.
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Rodney
Dodge Dakota
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7/17/2002
23:34:38
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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I've got 198k miles on my 944 Porsche using Castrol GTX 20W50 in Kansas. In the winter I switch to 10W40. To this day it does not use a drop of oil and no internal parts have been replaced. Compression is still perfect. I change the oil every 3,000-4,000 miles. I should get 300k out of it. I've also had good luck with it in some other cars. I never have been sold on lighter weight oils. I think one thing that helps extend engine life is an oil cooler, which the 944 has. I added one to my new Jeep Wrangler, hopefully it will last me a while.
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S. Allen
Dodge Dakota
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7/19/2002
09:20:11
| I have to agree with Sandman...
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I ran 10W-30 Castrol in my old 91 Ranger V-6 until it hit about 100K miles, it then started to get some blow-by and burned some oil.
I switched to 20W-50 GTX and it DRASTICALLY reduced the oil burning and I never saw oil on the plugs again.
I ran it another 89K miles and it is still running today and MAYBE burning 1/2 qt between oil changes. Not bad for an 11 year old Ford V-6.
I live in hellishly hot Houston, TX...and you'll never see me using those thinner oils. They may be ok for Michigan, where it gets maybe 80 degrees for a few weeks in the summer, but our summers last almost 5 months and turn thin oils to water consistency in minutes.
-SA
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Some Guy
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2002
15:00:29
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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I am a Mechanical Engineer and I live in Phoenix AZ.
I use 10W-30 MOBIL 1 synthetic YEAR ROUND.
You should too!
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Sodbuster
Dodge Dakota
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11/09/2002
21:25:16
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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Hi everyone, just a few comments on oil weights if your interested beings I'm from the cold north reigion of Dakota country. Its a toss up having 5-30 or 10-30 when mercury gets way below zero, the lighter oil pumps better when its -20 to -30 degrees below zero. Block heaters a must , mobil 1 , amsoil etc. gettings more attention and use beings seeing engine long term life is extended in harsh winter months. I use 5-30 mobil 1 in mid -winter months then 10-30 for rest of the year.Oh , 10-40 dino oil year around up here in vehicle with short trips will take the cam and lifters out after maybe 50-75,000 miles due mainly to cold winter months start up.
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Ian
Dodge Dakota
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7/22/2003
19:09:45
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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Can some one direct me to an oil cooler for a 4.7, cant seem to be able to find one.
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midnightmagic
GenIII
7/24/2003
08:22:52
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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my oil press. runs right in the middle, i have 60600 miles on my 00cc 4.7 auto, i changed out the crappy dealer oil at 500 miles and changed it every 3k from then on with durablend 10w30, i am stationed in minot, nd i run that oil year round, and ON ANY GIVEN DAY you can pull the dipstick and the oil looks like i just poured it in!, i have also been adding 1 qt. of lucas oil to the 5 qt.s of durablend, that lucas oil is the shiznit!!
It's Gumbo night every night with all the rice i cook!
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dools
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2003
04:41:04
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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Check your spelling before sending your
message.
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jh
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2003
14:42:09
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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what i dont get is why this place always turns out to be a big dong swinging saloami fest when its suppose to be to help people. I dont care how educated all of you are cause if you act like a dammm fool then who wants your pathetic advise anyway.
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eric
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2003
20:18:09
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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this is my personal opinion but i use 10w40 in the summer because i don't drive my truck in the ny winters. this oil works fine. i can hear it makes it's way quickly through the engine. i think the manufacturers recomend 5w30 4 2 reasons. 1 if they recomend thicker oil 2 make the engine last longer, they wouldn't sell as many new autos. 2 people in cold climates wouldn't change the 10w40 oil when winter comes around
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tommy
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2003
03:37:33
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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How come everyone on this board is either a Engineer or auto technician?
Don't janitors and Window washers visit and post?
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TECH
Dodge Dakota
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8/17/2003
23:31:23
| RE: High oil pressure on 4.7
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My 02 4.7 Dak stays at the upper mark when the engine is above idle, and at idle its about halfway, maybe a tad less. GIJEFF, I'm surprised the dealer even thought anything was wrong.
Most any engine is this way, it may just be masked by the gauge calibration on some models.
Say you cold start the engine. The oil is slowly pumped throughout, and the pressure slowly builds up to a stopping point. Cold oil will build more pressure initially, since it is thicker and doesn't leak out of the bearings as quickly.
The oil heats up, and now is thinner, leaks out quicker through the bearings and oil jets, and the pressure is generally lower-at idle. When you speed the engine up, the oil pump creates more flow, but the oil still has the same clearances from which to leak out, so the pressure builds higher than it would at idle and slow speeds. The max pressure is controlled by a relief valve, so it won't get above "X" amount, probably 90psi.
Oil pressure is a good thing, and oil level has nothing to do with it, unless it's nearly OUT of oil and the pump is sucking air...
If you've ever seen a mechanical oil gauge, you'd see the needle move a lot more than the electric one that comes from the factory.
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