| From | Message |
Mark S
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/23/2002
21:41:57
|
 Subject: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Took my '93 Dakota 4x4 (5.2 Club) it for a 100k major tune up. The shop recommended rear brake pads and cylanders. I bit. Now it's been back three times because the bloody thing won't stop as it did before. Before I paid $250 to have the brakes repaired, my Dakota stopped on a dime (or a few if the ABS kickewd in). The tech says this is because I did not replace all 4 and it will take time for them to break in. I am sure that excuse will go over well with some grieving parent when I can't stop in my neighborhood.
My questions:
1-How full of dung is this guy? I told him that I would prefer to have the old brakes back on and he looked at me like I was insane.
2-What has really happened? I can use this information so I can go back and sound informed (unlike my usual mechanical ineptness) when I threaten this guy with legal action.
3-Are there consumer protection laws to protect me? What I would like to do is take it to another brake specialist and send him the bill. I fear that would make him laugh even harder.
|
MAD DUC
GenIII
5/24/2002
06:09:47
|  RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
No he is not feeding you crap. The brakes do need time(miles) to break in. Hopefully you did not go out and hammer on them to early and glaze over the rear shoes. Why did they replace the wheel cylinders? Where they leaking? If they were leaking and the shoes were soaked with brake fluid, they will 'grab' much more than normal clean shoes.Have they re-bleed the wheel cylinders? Checked adjustment? I wouldn't go in spitting threats of "legal action" until all bases are covered. There are still lots of questions to cover.
|
kevster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/24/2002
09:35:43
|  RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Did they install the shoes with metalic chips in the compound.? or just plain Ol shoes with no metallic.. You do need time for the shoes to mold into the drums.. this is the break in period. Is your brake pedal firm and hard when brakes are applied? if the pedal is spongie the lines have air in them and need to be bleed again, to rid the lines of air.
|
Mark S
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/28/2002
08:29:28
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Spongey is a good word. I took it back the next day and he said he was going to bleed the line. He then road with me in the vehicle. Spongey, yes, but he said it would take a couple of weeks to break in. I then drove home. It is a four mile trip with two stops (one stop sign and my driveway). As I was slowing to turn into my drive way the "ABS", "P" and "I" signals went on. Called my truck guy, he said bring it in. He gave it back me the next night. Still spongey, no lights. He said give it a couple of weeks. Signals now only go on when sudden stopping is required, which, as you might imagine, I am avoiding as much as possible.
|
joel
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/28/2002
14:44:03
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
It will take a couple of weeks to break in depending on how the truck is used. If he used different brake compound then what you had on there, it will brake differently. How it differentiates (sp) will depend on the compound.
The spongyness will always be there until all air is bled out. Ask him to bleed the whole brake system including the master. Hopefully he didn't get air in the abs unit.
Joel
|
mj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/31/2002
13:07:38
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Do not do any heavy braking for the first 100 miles. Allow for proper break in before you start slamming it. Heavy braking can and will light up the ABS. By now you have probably annoyed your Tech. Let it go and take it easy.
|
Torque
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/31/2002
13:17:18
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
One some drums, it's neccessary to tap the brake pedal a few times when going in reverse. This adjusts the shoe tension. See if that helps.
http://www.coloradodesigns.com/truck
|
Boon
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/31/2002
20:16:36
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Mark, you have a problem. brakes need a few miles to settle in. But at no time should you be concerned that you won't stop. Wheel cylinders are pretty simple, a piston and some seals. They would have to be pretty "crudded up" to be bad enough to limit the movement of the piston, other than that they leak. Spongy brakes are a sympton of a bigger problem. Air? maybe, but that usually leads to a hard pedal. Most vehicles bleed from right rear, to left rear to right front ending up at left front (closest to master cylinder) However I haven't checked for our trucks. Were the drums turned or did the guy just hang shoes, and let it roll? Do this. back up several times, stopping pretty hard. This will insure adjustment of your shoes. Check for signs of fluid leakage where you master clyinder bolts to your power brake booster. Brake fluid will dissolve the paint. With the engine running have some one mash the brake pedal you should NOT hear air. Other than that, brake hoses get soft and will expand during braking causing a soft pedal. sorry so long hope this helps, Boon
|
Mark S
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/31/2002
23:52:35
|  RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
I have found all these responses to be supportive and the symptoms descibed accurate in relation to my situation. My mechanic and I actually have a very good relationship. I have referred him to many friends without regrets. My first post seemed harsh perhaps only because of my fear. It's been a couple weeks now and he's called me twice to see how I was driving (or stopping). He asked me to bring it back in based on my concerns. He too thought it would begin to break (brake?) in by now. These things still concern me:
1-All or nothing. I am used to rolling to a stop. Now am sometimes screaching to a stop. I remember how anoid I was when I first got ABS brakes because it was disconcerting. Now I miss the tap-tap-tapping of the ABS.
2-My legs and feet are hurting. At red lights I am practically standing on the pedal to keep the vehicle from rolling. I weigh 220. My 130 lb wife will not be driving this truck!
3-(It has not happened yet but . . .) Sometimes I feel like I am running out of floor. If I were any shorter I simply would not be able to stop.
4-If I apply the brakes for a short time, but I don't come to a complete stop, when I let up and then apply them again (example: some one pulls into my lane suddenly) they seem good as new. The next time I apply the brakes, after driving a bit further, I am driving the pedal into the floor board again.
|
mj
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/02/2002
01:03:07
|  RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Questian. Haven't you followed up on any of these helpful posts?! Man! You and your mechanic are lame! According to your symtoms, if you are not loosing fluid, then your Master cylinder is either internally bypassing fluid or loosing vacume to the diaphram of the Master cylinder. Maybe both. Take it to a REAL Auto Technician who knows brakes(not breaks).
|
dragrdan
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/05/2002
00:42:40
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Mark, on your last post you stated that the pedal feels good after the second hit is a classic sign of air in the system. It could also be that the rear brakes are not adjusted properly(they should have an ever so slight drag), but i would lean more toward the air in the system. have your tech clamp off the 3 rubber brake hoses, start the truck and hold the brake pedal(if it is sky hi and rock hard the master cylinder is ok). While still holding the pedal have an assistant remove the line clamps one at a time, the pedal should drop ever so slightly as they are released. A big drop will tell you which part of the system has the air(front or back)
|
Mark S
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
6/06/2002
12:57:48
|  RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Just took it in and gave him these posts (except the one that calls him lame - I got work with this guy). I 'll post when I get it back.
Incidentally, on the way in some clown pulled in front of me and I had to lock 'em up. The trucks back end swung out to the right.
|
L. Hines
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/29/2003
12:07:03
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
I DRIVE A 93 DODGE DEKOTA. FIRST TIME TO SERVICE THE BRAKES. PEDAL BECAME VERY STIFF, COULD NOT PRESS DOWN, BUT THE TRUCK STOPPED. CHECKED THE FLUID, NOT MUCH FLUID LEAKED OUT. WHILING DRIVING ON THE INTERSTATE, THE BRAKES SEIZED UP AND THE TRUCK STOPPED WITHOUT BRAKING. I TOOK IT IN TO MY MACHANIC, HE CHAGED THE MASTER CYLINDER,BRAKE LINES. AFTER ONE MONTH DRIVING SHORT DISTANCES AROUND TOWN, TO AND FROM WORK ONLY, WE DECIDED TO TAKE A TRIP. AT SPEED OF 60 MPH, THE BRAKES SEIZED AGAIN. WE PULLED OVER, CHECKED THE FLUID(OK) THEN STARTED DRIVING AGAIN, ON THE SIDE STREET AT A SLOWER SPEED(40TO45). I MADE IT BACK HOME. THE TRUCK RAN LIKE THERE WAS NO PROBLEM. PLEASE REPLY
|
a possibility
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/29/2003
14:48:50
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Ask again without dredging up an old irrelevant post and without shouting (CAPS !) and I will tell you what it might be. By the way, the problem you piggybacked onto was air in the lines.
|
TECH
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/31/2003
11:50:09
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Mark, has this problem been fixed?
|
TECH
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/31/2003
12:19:05
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Ok, now that I see that a registration isn't required here, I'll put my .02 in. I'm a BMW auto tech myself, but brakes are brakes, and in the interest of your safety, I'll reply to this whether it's fixed or not. Others may learn something.
First of all, new or not, your brakes should stop the truck without you having to stand on them. The mechanic should have test drove the truck for a few miles to seat the "shoes" in, which is standard proceedure for me. 100 miles is hogwash.
From what you describe, your pedal is either mushy, or it travels too far before getting hard, or both. This is what I'd have the mech check:
1. Make certain that the rear shoes are adjusted properly. There should be a slight drag on the rear drum, both of them. The wheel cylinders won't push out very far, so when the piston does move, it should be able to bite right away. If it is adjusted too loose, which is likely, the piston will move out too far and likely not have any pressure on the drum. This will also make your PEDAL go down too far, BUT it should still be hard once the rear shoes bite into the drum.
If the drum itself has a big lip from wear, it should be turned, or replaced. Reason being is that to get the drum to fit over the new shoes, the shoes have to be adjusted to fit over the first lip, which is smaller in diameter to the worn section. So once you get the drum on, there is a bigger gap from the drum to the shoes. (I'm not sure if you can adust those brakes with the drum on, but likely not).
2. Since the wheel cylinders were replaced, it's obvious that the system was opened, and needed to be bled (all 4 wheels to be sure). If your pedal is mushy (that is, it builds a little pressure, and slows you down some, but is spongey and goes further down, and pumping the pedal will bring it higher) then it's likely that they weren't bled properly. If the system is free of air, and the pedal still is mushy, or sinks when you keep constant pressure on it, then the master cylinder isn't holding pressure. Sometimes when you flush fluid through the master, any little bit of sludge or buildup in the reservoir or master itself can cause the seals in the master to leak.
...So if the pedal is hard, but goes too far down, it's likely the rear adjustment, and don't count on the self adjusters to actually work...(braking in reverse.....)
......If the pedal is just mushy and sinks further and further down, and pumping helps bring it up, there is either air in the system, or the master is going out, or you have a leak.
Hope this helps.
|
Tech ?
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/31/2003
14:47:31
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey tech - the problem you responded to was a year old - the guy has either figured it out or crashed by now...
|
TECH
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/31/2003
15:46:30
| RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Doh! And here I am thinking that my 02 Dakota is brand new......lol.
|
Mark S
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
5/31/2003
23:16:23
|  RE: dispute with brake repair tech
IP: Logged
Message:
Hey, I did not crash ;)
I did not resolve this with a final post. Sorry.
So in conclusion . .
My mechanic drove the truck and then told me he would do whatever it took to make me satisfied. He kept it another day. I got it back and the brakes were mushy, but he guarenteed me that no matter what I read on posting boards, these brrakes would be less mushy as time went on. He was right. The only problem now is the the ABS light comes on more often than its stays off. But the ABS brakes worked all winter, so I've learned to ignore it.
|
| | P 1 |
|
Post a reply to this message:
Username Registration: Optional
All visitors are allowed to post messages
|
