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GraphiteDak
GenIII
 
7/23/2007
21:22:24
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 Subject: RE: Track times
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Did you get it from Arizona Tractor and Turbo?
There should be an oil pressure sensor in the 4.7 but I forget where it was. But do a tee from there. The drain can be the plastic oil filler piece if you put your turbo up front and high enough. Rammer dud his into the oil pan. Welded a piece of metal tube and washer to the pan. Then drilled it out.
So where do you plan on installing the intercooler now?
It's GOT TO BE in FRONT of the radiator and condenser. It's rejecting LESS HEAT than the radiator is discharging. So behind the radiator would ADD heat! :p
If you could move the radiator and condenser back with home made mounts you could install a small intercooler up front.
Otherwise do a water to air one like Duner.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2007
14:51:31
| RE: Track times
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I'll probably use an air to air intercooler and mount it up front like you said. I found one on e-bay for $10.00. I just bought a welder last night so now I can fab everything myself.
I got my turbo from e-bay for $211.00. Not too bad and its brand new. In fact, its sitting in my office with me right now. Just arrived today.
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rammer
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2007
15:56:31
| RE: Track times
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what brand and whats the sizing. does it have an internal or external wastgate? i would do alot of searching and see how to do the intercooler,or u could go with water/methanol injection.snow performance has a variable amount kit that goes with boost leval,its about 300 in summit. make sure to watch detonation,and also on my motor the stock head gaskets didnt like over 12psi boost so be careful,,
boost is addicting likeboobs,once you get the first feel of them you want more and more.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2007
17:38:58
| RE: Track times
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"boost is addicting likeboobs,once you get the first feel of them you want more and more."
WORD! Thats what I'm afraid of:)
But for now I will be running only 6 psi.
It's a 1.15 A/R on the turbine and a .60 A/R on the compressor.
I will have an external wastegate and a BOV on there as well.
Were you able to go to 12 psi with stock injectors?
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rammer
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2007
14:43:32
| RE: Track times
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no i was only able to get to about 4psi (that the motor saw after intercooler)with stock injectors.you will either need bigger injectors,a booster pump with pressure regulator,or additional injectors,with some sort of controler for it.the a/r rating on the turbine side seems a little big,i used an .82 and boost picked up quick and still flowed good at top end,now i have an .96 to spool a little higher,the a/r on the comp, side seems a little small but you never know,im no expert.just speeking from what i have had. something youy WILL have to do is either but an resister and couple other things in map sensor,or an check valve, someone has the diagrams,just need to search. really easy,if you dont do it,when you hit boost the computer freeks out,almost like hitting the rev limiter,but worse!
you will want to get either a high flow cat and exhaust,or delete cat. good luck
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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7/26/2007
16:07:55
| RE: Track times
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What kind of resistor or check valve do you
mean and how would I install it?
This will make me look really smart, but, whats a check valve?
I thought the MAP sensor would be able to compensate for boost by adding more fuel. I have alot to learn.
I agree about the A/R sizes on the turbo. If it won't work I will sell it and get a new one closer to yours.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
7/27/2007
03:01:13
| RE: Track times
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The MAP sensor was never meant to read greater pressure than atmospheric at around sea level!
For some reason when Rammer's went into boost and the MAP output was near the full 5VDC, his PCM freaked out and was like hitting the rev limiter! Watch one of my old videos on youtube (user = paysonbadboy)
The easy fix is to buy a 1k ohm resistor and a 4.7 Volt Zener Diode.
You cut the middle wire on the MAP sensor plug and solder on the resistor in series with it. Then you solder in the zener in between the resistor and ground, on the resistor side furthest from the MAP plug. The polarity of the zener is important and my brain is so tired right now I'll have to tell you which way the stripe goes later :p
But basically the resistor is a current limiter, and the zener will short anything over 4.7 volts to ground so the PCM NEVER gets a voltage more that 4.7 volts sent to it even though you went into boost.
Good luck with the project. :)
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2007
12:19:06
| RE: Track times
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Damn. Well, I'm glad you guys told me that before I hooked everything up and started freaking out about my truck doing crazy things.
Fortunately, I know nothing about electronics so we'll see how long it takes for me to blow my engine, or map sensor, to hell!:)
If I do this and my engine can't sense the rising boost levels, how does it know how much fuel to add?
Sorry guys, I will try to pick your brains for everything you know:)
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rammer
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2007
13:08:28
| RE: Track times
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when you put in the resistor or check valve in the map only sees a full loa and then the o2 adjusts as much as possible.the pcm only can adjust so much so you will need bigger injectors,booster pump,etc. also you will need an pressure regulator with an return line. i know you live in az maybe one day you can look at my truck and see how its done to get a better idea,
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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7/27/2007
18:25:20
| RE: Track times
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Yeah Rammer, I would really like to see what your set up looks like.
Ok, so the O2 sensor (not the map sensor) reads the lower A/F ratio when I get boost and it will try to compensate by adding more fuel. Now I get it.
Thanks guys. I would have been totally screwed if you hadn't mentioned that. Let me know which way that stripe gois and I'll put the resistor and diode one there. I can pick that stuff up at Radio Shack right?
I got another question for ya. I bought an A/F gauge recently, and I wanted to know where I should put the O2 Sensor for it.
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rammer
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2007
12:15:51
| RE: Track times
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you should putit after turbo but before the cat. all the resister tuff you can get at radio shack but frys electronics is cheaper,and they have the 4.7 zenor diode thats needed.radio shack only has the 5.1 or 5.0 cant remember. i would suggest to solder them in so they wont come loose. graphite and i both live in el mirage so one weekend you can come see truck,it will be finally hittin the road today,only afterabout 10 months.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2007
16:23:08
| RE: Track times
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Right on Rammer! Let me know how it runs. What psi are you going to run?
Thanks for the Frys advice. I'll run down there as soon as I get some more stuff mounted for my turbo.
If I mount my turbo up front, what do you guys think I should do about my 2 pre-cats and 4 O2 sensors. Should I try to relocate them down stream or delete them some how?
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
7/28/2007
20:17:10
| RE: Track times
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Damn you have the two cats on your 4.7? Mine just had the one Cat and two O2 sensors. But I bet you can leave each of the two front O2 sensors on the exhaust pipe on each bank BEFORE they join into one going to the turbo. Then the other two rear O2 sensors are just for check cat efficiency. Just put both of them next to each other in the single pipe after the turbo somewhere under the truck and after the new single cat.
Basically you will just need to get a single high flow cat like a 3" to install after the turbo.
As for the fuel I don't think it will ever add enough and I believe that when under WOT the PCM just goes pretty much to max enrichment anyway, but don't quote me on that it may be different on newer vehicles. But it would be too lean if you don't add some fuel.
Rammer and I did it the hard way before especially after some speed shop sold him way too big of injectors. :p
I gotta go so I can go to my bowling league.
What part of town did you kive at again? Rammer and I both live near Dysart (131st Ave) and Thunderbird.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2007
22:38:36
| RE: Track times
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Maybe I will have to get the Vortech FMU like Duner. He said he runs a stock PCM with only 5 psi when not at the track. I wish I could get in touch with him and maybe get his piping setup reproduced. His kit on his webpage looks really good.
I live on 16th street & Northern. But I don't mind driving out there to see Rammer's truck. It would be worth it.
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
7/29/2007
20:43:37
| RE: Track times
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16th and Norhtern. That's not exactly down the street. However, that's not Tempe or Mesa either LOL!!!
Yeah you could be here in 45 minutes easy. Rammer drives that far every day for his jobs. Most of mine are West Valley.
A few PSI of boost would be nothing more to the stock setup as just driving down to San Diego from here where the air is more dense and the PCM adding a little more fuel. Driving from here to there, the vehicles seem like you are running some Nitrous on them but it's just the advantage of the denser air. Opposite of course happens when we drive to Flagstaff and starve for air!
I think Rammer needs to find a higher PSI Fuel Pump and tune it with the fuel pressure regulator. I haven't played with my microcontrollers in a while, otherwise I was thinking of just running some extra injectors.
But for him the fuel pressure regulator may be easier to tune for now. For some reason it's running lean even with the 24Lb injectors and not in the boost. It was rich when he fired it up with the O2 unplugged. I think he needs a new O2 sensor before trusting the PCM at all.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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7/30/2007
14:33:07
| RE: Track times
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Yeah that sounds a bit whacked out if its still running lean with no boost and 24lb injectors.
I used to live in Florida, and that sea level air pressure had my truck screaming before I moved here.
Do you guys think I should get bigger injectors? Or try to add fuel some other way, like an inline fuel pump and pressure regulator?
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GraphiteDak
GenIII
7/31/2007
18:52:17
| RE: Track times
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I wouldn't throw bigger injectors in there quite yet.
That's what happened with Rammer. A performance shop who does MOSTLY Mustang stuff talked him into large injectors and we had a b*tch of a time backing fuel out when not in boost!
The PCM was probably cutting back so much we coulda been lean at times if that was ever possible!
Now that we are putting it back together again with the 360 engine I saw a way we may have been able to lower the fuel even more when not in boost, but too late now :p
Seems like an auxilery pump to raise pressure and a FMU are the easiest for you to tune without getting into a lot of electronics.
Once I see we get Rammer's to run great I'll maybe take the plunge next summer and go turbo on my 4.7
Right now I've got a cheap ol' VW engine on a Buggy I'm playing with to EFI and turbo charge. I can go blow them engines up all day long and fix it cheap compared to a costly 4.7!
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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8/02/2007
11:08:20
| RE: Track times
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I have a fuel pressure regulator coming this week. Do you think I could get a high flow in-line fuel pump and properly manage the fuel that way?
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rammer
Dodge Dakota
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8/06/2007
14:42:31
| RE: Track times
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i think you can. i have a rising rate reg. and just ordered an 150psi max,255lph inline pump from fiveomotorsports in california for $149 and change. my stock pump is 50psi max and about 30gph so this one is alot more volume and psi.
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1hotkadota
Dodge Dakota
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8/06/2007
15:08:36
| RE: Track times
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kick ass. I've seen the 255lph pumps for $60 on e-bay. At least I can do something with the fuel now. I've still gotta figure out the oiling system and then I'll be ready to start putting things together.
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