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notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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5/16/2002
19:11:33
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 Subject: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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Does anybody out there have a 4.7 with the Kenne Bell and a 5-speed? Do you have before and after 1/4 mile times? Not that the tranny has much to do with it, just wanted for comparing stock vs. S/C'd times.
I've been anxiously awaiting the turbo kits to come out, but I'm getting antsy...
I prefer the turbo, but if KB proves to knock the socks off of the stock E.T.'s, I may just go ahead and get one.
I know the "Peak" HP ratings may not be as high as some of the centrifugals, but the thing is in full boost by 2,000rpm.
Any feedback on the performance of the KB would be appreciated, and if you have dyno sheets to show, that would be great.
Thanks
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cotharyus
Dodge Dakota
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5/18/2002
11:31:31
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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I was reading a post somewhere about a guy that has a jeep with the 4.7HO and either a paxton or bell, he claimed he was getting something like 350HP, and running 14 flat with a grand cherokee.
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B1llyw
GenIII
5/18/2002
11:54:22
|  RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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I'm curious about this too. The only issues I've heard of with the Kenne Bell on a 4.7 revolve around shifting points on the auto tranny. It might make a nice setup for a 5 speed. BTW, torque rules!
Bill White - 2002 QC 4x4, SLT , 4.7, 5 spd, 3.92's w/LSD, Airaid, MBRP Super Single, Hurst T-Handle, BFG A/T's, IAS Shocks, 180 T-Stat, Jet Chip - Stage II
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CW
GenIII
5/18/2002
16:54:34
|  RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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Good luck getting it to hookup.
2001 4.7HO RC 5sp 3.92 LSD
Click on thumbnail for mods.
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notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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5/19/2002
01:48:47
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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You're right CW, getting the thing to hook up will be a trick. I currently am running 275-60-15's Firestone SS20's along with Lakewood traction bars. I have the Back end dropped 2" for better weight transfer. I will probably mount the battery in the bed, "post" forced induction. Right now it cuts high 1.90's to low 2.0's (60 ft'er)
I've seen the guys with the 4X4's using KB's, and quad cabs, but no RC 4.7 5-speed 3:92's. I'll bet the sucker will be a 13 second player for sure. Right now it runs 14.8 @ 91mph.
Thanks
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YA
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2002
01:45:15
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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Damn notch! Looks like the next time we race at Mooresville we will both be supercharged.
Looks like you got the boost itch!
I sent you my email addy if I can help.
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YA
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2002
01:56:12
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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Damn notch! Looks like the next time we race at Mooresville we will both be supercharged.
Looks like you got the boost itch!
I sent you my email addy if I can help.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/20/2002
22:30:41
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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I have a 2002 RC 2WD 4.7L LS 3.92 5spd and I've been looking at a Kenne Bell a long with Bernd and Tom's Turbo. It's a positive displacement, so it would have tremendous low end, but how in the hell would I hook that up! At least by the time I get past the turbo lag I'll have traction. I like the idea of a supercharger better, but I'm just not sure if it would work very well because of the lack of traction. Of course I would do better with a turbo for the amount I can get out of it, but for regular use, warranty, durability, and maintenace, the supercharger wins. Just depends on what you're looking for I guess, I'll have to wait to see the results of Speedtweak's turbo before I make my decision. I do like torque though...
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YA
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
02:30:51
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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Proper turbo setups have almost no turbo lag.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
09:26:28
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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No turbo lag is impossible, so where is the almost located?
Off idle, 8psi of boost? Probably not, although max boost at 2000 RPM would make me happy!
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
11:41:42
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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Today it was raining and I was able to keep my wheels slipping from 1-4th..I had to let off the accelerator to finally stop, lol. Dunno if I need that much more torque!
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
13:53:44
| Just Buy It!
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I think one of you guys should go ahead and step up to the plate and buy the Kenne Bell set-up.
I realize I'm really good at spending other people's money - but that way we'll have something to compare to. Until somebody does, it'll all be speculation about what does what.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
15:24:03
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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I am a good candidate. I would be very willing to put a Ken Bell supercharger on my truck, but I do need help. If you all who are experienced in forced induction would help me, I will go for it. I need to know stuff like the best setup, as in #24 injectors, traction help, intercooler (air-liquid is preffered), pcm flashes, and stuff like that.
I also want to know if we could get it setup to run 8 pounds off pump gas? If Hughes Engines ever gets around to bringing out the stuff for our trucks I would test that too.
If I could get some of your help on this as a project, I will go for it.
How 'bout it Duner!
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
16:19:59
| It's been done, but it was an early version...
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There's a dude over on moparchat.com that has one of the first KB setups on his 4.7 5-spd truck. He's run a 14.3 on a single drag strip pass, but that's apparently his only visit to that one track and it's a big ass 4x4 construction truck that wasn't really all that light. He says he's had no problems and it's been like a year or more with it on his truck. If you think about it, the 4x4 4.7 trucks should be about 16-sec trucks (or worse) so a 2 second gain in the 1/4 mile is pretty damn big. That would put my truck closer to mid 13's.......
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
16:37:26
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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Here's a link:
http://www.moparchat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=5f271eb7e496ead14cb368cfcb72a449&threadid=42928
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notchlx
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
16:58:28
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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A two SECOND chop off of the E.T.'s would sign the check for sure. That would put me at 12.80's. 12.80's crap! That's faster than your run of the mill C-5 Vette.
I will be selling my Mustang in order to scrape the funds for the project, but I still need to do some research. Turbo's have been on my mind, since I first heard of "BIG DADDY" DUNER running 12's with his Club Cab. Now I know the Speed Tweaks kit won't exactly be tuned to the state Duner has his, but you can work with it. KB strongly recommends not changing the pulley out on the unit in search of more boost. However dumping some race gas in the tank, and upping the boost on the turbo sounds like fun. The only thing being, I would probably end up doing it all of the time. (race gas is expensive)
If nobody has the KB in place in the next 2-3 months, I may be the guinea pig.
I can deal with the traction issues. If I have to go 4-link with coil-overs, I'll do it. Moser Axles will probably need to be purchased at that time. Along with a Centerforce clutch. 275-60-15 BFG drag radials will aid the task as well.
Ya is running the Caltracs, and his built 318 still overwhelms the fatties he's got out back. So.... What else is out there?
I've got the Lakewoods and they do good if you launch under 2,000rpm, any higher and the 275's fry.
We need a donor vehicle... Maybe if I put in a call to Kenne Bell, and explain the situation with everybody wanting to know how it does, they'll hook me up with a donor charger....hehehe
We'll see.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
19:06:41
| Prolly not 2 seconds.....
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The Kenne Bell system is supposed to make 325 hp at the flywheel (according to their marketing info) which is a 90 hp gain. My guess is that's making about 6 lbs of boost. The boost alone should make about 100 hp but you have to drive the blower off the crankshaft and that uses some of the new found power. I would expect the ETs to drop roughly a full second and possibly a little more with slicks.
I will give anybody as much help as I can over the internet. I don't know how much help I would be with a system that I know nothing about.... but I'd try to help anyway. I would expect the KB kit to come with everything needed for the installation as well as with detailed instructions. They should also provide tech support.
As far as traction issues? Adding 90 hp isn't THAT big of a deal. It might be a little bit trickier to launch but that's half the fun!
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
19:25:18
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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Hrm, only 6...that kind of sucks. What if I strengthen my engine later and want to run more? There has to be room to work with later and up the boost when it's ready. I think I might have to talk to K. Bell about this a lil more. We need someone that's running one to help us..
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joel
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
20:18:48
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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6 with no intercooler.
I'd go for a setup with intercoolers. Superchargers/turbos without intercoolers are halve ass setups.
Joel
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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5/21/2002
21:04:08
| It's ONLY money!
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There's an awful lot of half-ass setups out there that kick the crap out of the competition!
Without a doubt an intercooler will improve the performance of a forced-air engine. How much it improves things will be dependent upon now much the super/turbocharger heats up the intake charge. In general, the higher the boost the more heat generated. Low boost applications won't see much of a change from the addition of an intercooler. If you're making 6 lbs of boost, which on a stock 4.7 equates to a 90 hp gain - adding an intercooler might get you an additional 9 or 10 hp if the intercooler is VERY efficient. The average intercooler system will cost you about $1000 to $1500 when it's all said and done.... that's about $100 to $150 per HP! Are you sure you want to spend up to $1500 for 9 or 10 HP?
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2002
01:17:40
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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I've taken notice to that too, you could almost buy stronger engine parts and just up the boost for how much a good intercooler setup would cost you. I think it depends a lot of the timing with cams and the computer, but that's just my idea. Now if only I could put it to the test...
Hey Duner, when you run about 8 lbs on the setup you wanted to market, at what RPM does the max boost hit?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2002
01:55:19
| You don't want boost ALL the time...
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The turbo is quite capable of making all 8 lbs (or more depending upon setting of wastegate) at 1500 rpms if you just lean into the throttle at that low rpm. It just isn't instantaneous boost unless you are right around 2700 rpms and of course higher. It will make full boost all the way thru the entire rpm range of the engine. You only get boost if you give it enough throttle. I can rev the engine to about 4000 rpms in any gear and still not make boost if I do it gently enough. Of course there's a fine line there....
What's happening is that the turbo is actually spooled up and making boost - but the blowoff valve is dumping it all overboard because you have the throttle closed enough to still maintain vacuum in the engine. If you open the throttle enough to load the engine and lose that vacuum signal to the blowoff valve - then it becomes INSTANT BOOST. The turbo is already spooled up.... you just control it with throttle position. This is very important to me when I'm towing a trailer. I don't want the engine getting into boost if I can help it. When the engine makes boost - it also requires the fuel to compensate for it. That equates to poor fuel mileage. With the combined weight of the truck and trailer getting close to 8,000 lbs it could also lead to a failure of a driveline component. I would really be pissed with myself if I blew a U-joint in BFE because I was hot-rodding the truck with a load on it. Trust me, you don't actually want boost all the time.... you just want it WHEN YOU WANT IT! hehehe
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B1llyw
GenIII
5/22/2002
08:25:33
| Kenne Bell Sale Prices
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Truckperformance.com has the Kenne Bell 4.7 kit for $3750 with free shipping through May 31st if anyone wants to take the plunge.
Bill White - 2002 QC 4x4, SLT , 4.7, 5 spd, 3.92's w/LSD, Airaid, MBRP Super Single, Hurst T-Handle, BFG A/T's, IAS Shocks, 180 T-Stat, Jet Chip - Stage II
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2002
12:11:53
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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Not a bad deal, not at all. Hrm, time to check how much I got..lol.
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joel
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2002
13:39:14
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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I came across pretty rough by saying non-intercoold setups are halve ass, sorry 'bout that.
I hear your point Duner by saying non-intercooled setups are producing power and adding an intercooler could gain 10-15 with the same amount of boost (if any).
My point is if you add an intercooler to a centrifigual or turbo setup, not only does it cool the air (and use a bit of power), but it allows you to run more boost. The latter is the major point and thats why vendors have the intercooled kits, they make more power.
The intercooling will net more then 10-15 hp because you can run more boost (w/correct timing/fuel). So its less then 100-150 per hp/tq gained with a proper intercooled FI kit.
Joel
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2002
13:57:29
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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Is it just on much higher boost applications that people mostly run intercoolers? It kinda seems at somthing as low as below 8 the gains are minimal, but I'm guessing much higher up it would help tremendously.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2002
14:13:43
| More Boost = Commitment
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joel - Everything you just said is absolutely correct. The intercooler will help allow you to run more boost as long as they have the correct timing and fuel controls, as well as good fuel.
I think the best way to keep it in perspective is that with low boost numbers it's not a critical item and isn't going to effect the hp numbers by much at all. If you want to run with higher boost numbers then it does become necessary. The intercooler allows you to make more hp by making it safer for you to run more boost. I mentioned before that running more boost to make more hp required more of a commitment. This would be part of that commitment.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2002
14:54:02
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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How does it make it safer -- more stable?
More boost mean a lor more heat, so do you choose an intercooler based on how much heat you want to dissipate or base it off of airflow?
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2002
15:10:11
| Airflow.......
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When you make higher amounts of boost, the air gets compressed which raises it's temperature. The higher the compression or boost - the higher the air temp. This higher temperature intake charge is more prone to detonation. Detonation is BAD! If you can keep the intake air charge nice and low then you are giving yourself a margin of safety.
Intercoolers are all about compromise. Ideally you base the intercooler sizing on engine airflow and boost levels. Realistically you just have to go with an intercooler that will fit in the space available for your application. The whole goal is to get the intake charge back down to ambient air temps.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2002
15:13:04
| RE: Kenne Bell on a 4.7 5-spd?
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And yet maintain the same boost pressure.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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5/22/2002
16:49:23
| Duhh, I forgot the rest of the sentence.
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Yeah, what Alex said!
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