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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2007
12:05:01
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 Subject: RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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I'm actually working on an '05 Dakota 4.7L right now - yup...3 cats, two mufflers (one main and one small one in the rear) - federal vehicle. Ram's come with two or three depending on year. If you noticed the post, the test vehicles were Ram's.
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Kowalski
GenIII
2/09/2007
13:08:33
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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Sure, you bet I noticed that you eventually posted that - after I questioned why you initially recomended a cat back exhaust as a decent gain for a guy with a Dakota. Did you notice this is a Dakota site ? I'm big on the details - remember ? Looks like this could be one of those times when the details make a big difference. I also noticed you first noted there was no aftermarket CAI for this truck yet, while saying there was a gain with the Mopar cold air intake; but failed to divulge the detail that this was a modified part for a different aplication - Like the aftermarket, Mopar doesn't offer CAI specific for that aplication either. Another important detail.
I wonder why they're up to 3 cats on the fed package now ? Mine came with that with the cali package; two precats, then the one with the sensors. Most older Daks came with one muffler, I wonder when they added the second ? A change with the latest generation ? Sounds like the ones with more than one muffler may see a gain.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Spucknit
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2007
20:58:25
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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Wow, I never expected so much discussion after a short question. I'm very impressed with everyones input. In response to Kowalski's first question; I haven't limited my options to the three I mentioned, I just thought those were the only three that a guy like me could afford and install myself. I'm quite curious about cams now though. Fasstdak, are you sure cams would be the same price as a FIPK ect.? I thought cams would cost about a grand. And how would I update or flash my PCM software? Would the dealership do that? or would I have to send it in somewhere?
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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/09/2007
23:54:05
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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If you shop around, you can get the 4.7L HO cams for anywhere in between $300-350 and the PCM can be updated at the dealership with the "latest and greatest" revision. Or...stop by the one I work at and i'll do it for ya.
53021159AA - Left HO Camshaft (135 available)
53021160AA - Right HO Camshaft (634 available)
You can install the cams yourself if you are somewhat mechanically inclined and pay attention to detail. Most shops can do this for you - standard rate is about 3-4 hours for the install though.
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TexasTodd
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2007
00:57:25
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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So cool,
When I ordered my HO cams from a Jeep dealer in Rhode Is., they were $52 a cam. Shipped to my door, it was about $112 total, for Both cams, this ws late in 01, or early 02 though. Installed by myself and a guy who goes by the screenname 'Lurkin'.
Lurkin,
PS, your Gtech pro is still on my shelf, I WILL get it back to you.
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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2007
08:43:56
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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They've gone up in price since then. Definitely shop around though...
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phil
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2007
08:47:19
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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Hey fastdak, that's great ! In the past, we could only get extra ignition advance for the 4.7 from a custom flash or aftermarket product. You can do it at your dealership now ? Where are you ?
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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2007
09:25:29
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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You really don't want to advance the ignition timing for performance unless you put it in at off-idle and then remove it at top-end (no more than 34-36 degrees total). There are easier ways to advance the timing but at the cost of the entire rpm band.
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Kowalski
GenIII
2/10/2007
12:14:38
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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More pesky details, please ! Could you name the easier ways to increase the ignition advance in our 4.7's ? The only way I'm aware of is through a custom flash, like the Leach flash I've seen good results from, or an aftermarket product like superchips, which many of the other guys have been pleased with. I know there's a crank sensor mod that can work for the 5.2/5.9; but have heard that's not possible on the 4.7, wich has no typical distributor. Is or isn't this something you can do at your dealership ? My experience is improved performance without any bad effects in 5 years; with the 4.7's aluminum heads the only time I have to run premium with this program is for heavy towing. Please elaborate.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2007
19:26:20
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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I'm not giving away all the secrets. It IS possible but you have to know how the crank/cam trigger system works. I'm not going into details on that. ;)
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Kowalski
GenIII
2/11/2007
07:20:58
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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Fasstdak - I think you are giving out bogus advice here, making guys think they could get a performance upgrade through a dealer PCM flash; when in fact, some of those flashes can even hurt performance by retarding ignition advance.
Now you want to play the "I know something you don't know" game like some child.
I guess you came to this forum more to act like some kind of a hot shot dealer guy, than to share your knowledge. ;-)
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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2007
10:46:30
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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You're reading into this way too much. As for hurting performance...you're thinking of the old "death flash" for the 3.9/5.2/5.9L engines - that's already been superceded twice and doesn't cause those problems anymore - 4.7L didn't have any version of that flash. Plus, the old "death flash" worked very well on Supercharged or Nitroused vehicles (yes, I still keep a copy of that data file around).
If you really must know and it's bugging you that bad, there's much more that you can do with the DRB-III and StarScan than just flash PCM's and clear codes (year/model depending though).
That crank sensor mod that's posted all over the web "works", but the PCM will relearn the actual cam/crank sync values. You have to understand how the PCM works before thinking old-school.
The TPS mod isn't actually doing much except advancing timing and if you really want details: '03+ NGC PCM's will insert their own calculated values if the sensors are mess with and not within factory parameters.
The IAT mod works but you need to keep it witin a 20 degree variance from factory to be able to use it properly.
Now here's the kicker: '03+ NGC vehicle PCM's will insert their own values if you change them too much (IAT mod at track, TPS mod at more than .7v). You can "fool" the PCM once by drastically changing the values while the key is ON, but once you cycle the key - MIL and calculated values are inserted.
I came onto this board (again) to help out with questions and share some professional experiences.
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Kowalski
GenIII
2/12/2007
09:28:27
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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Yeah, that's why some of us with the older trucks went with custom flashes to actually change the values in the PCM. We've noticed that gives much better reults than the little bit of gain you could get by fooling the IAT. I think Superchips affects the way the data is handled similarly; many have reported gains with that as well (though not with the jet chip). Not sure if any of this is available for the '05 yet.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2007
10:14:39
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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Superchips (along with the other programmers - not "chips") paid DC to be able to modify certain table values within the PCM code - not modify the signals like chips do.
They are working on it - they're one of my vendors on the board I run.
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phil
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2007
18:51:06
|  RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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Stopped by dealership today. Now I know why I got no response from Fastdak.
There is no dealer performance flash for 4.7.
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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2007
19:54:51
| RE: 05' 4.7L mods
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Uhhhh...I never said there was. There is an UPDATE for the PCM (year/model depending) but I never stated that there was a "performance flash".
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