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IB
Dodge Dakota
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1/24/2007
23:10:15
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 Subject: engine build-up planning
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I have a few bucks and a 99 Dak - a dangerous combination :-)
I want to put some zip into this heavy girl; Club cab, 318, 4x4, auto. I like the idea of a stroker crank for a nice balance of power and not just a bunch of hp up high in the revs where I won't use it. My 318 is running well and has 115,000mi on her, so I am not in a big hurry.
So, my thoughts were to either build up what I have or grab a tired 360cid Magnum and build it while I continue to drive the truck.
I am targeting about 400hp as my dream when she's done. How little can I spend for a reliable engine build? What is important and what is just glam? I'd like to do the 408 with a 4" crank and some lighter pistons, but if there's isn't much advantage I could stay with stock pistons (for example). I want her to run on pump gas and still tow and haul, so high cr and PCM flashes with tons of spark advance wouldn't be my first move.
I'd appreciate some opinions from the guys that have gone this route and can tell me what is essential so I don't cut corners but I don't waste money on something I don't need. Also, what kind of power is to be expected out of a stroked 360 in various stages of modification?
Tips on how to build the best on a budget with what I have might include running my 318 heads and cam with the 360 block (for instance). (yes I search and read :-) )
So what does the collective think?
Thanks!
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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1/25/2007
12:37:35
|  RE: engine build-up planning
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have you talked to the guys @ krcperformance.com or hughesengines.com yet? they both seem to be very knowlegable about the magnum engines. also, in the past i've called manufacturers tech lines before for advice. Guys like Crane, Crower, Edelbrock, etc... could probably help a lot as they know what products they have that will get you where you want to be.
good luck in your quest for power!
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truck guy
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
17:02:12
| RE: engine build-up planning
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You didn't say how much cash you have to spend. We all have dreams for our trucks but paying thing like rent or home heating oil always get in the way. If your budget is on the high side buy a crate motor ready to drop in and run. You'll have a much easier time getting what you want for power. I've done the mix and match thing building motors and I always say to my self that this is the last time. Buy it done and ready to run---- belive me you'll be much happer with the end results.
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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
18:15:50
| RE: engine build-up planning
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I agree...horsepower costs money - how much you want depends on how much you're willing to spend (general rule).
You can build up a very potent 318 if you don't want to spend the extra money for the 360 block/flexplate/TQ converter/harmonic balancer.
The actual build up would require some thought on the application. Building up a high HP/TQ engine but that only makes it at higher RPM's isn't going to help out your mileage or 4WD in daily traffic. What type of fuel do you want to run, what type of powerband do you want, what's your budget, all of that comes into play for cam/intake/head/machining selection.
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IB
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
18:46:05
| RE: engine build-up planning
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thanks for the replies.
I would like to budget $4,000 or less. It must run pump gas. I'd want to have at least the stock low to midrange power. I'd be willing to sacrifice top end hp for a more 4x4 heavy truck engine.
My 318 is running just fine at 115,000mi, so I am not in a hurry to jump into something half-cocked. I'm glad to make careful slow choices about how to proceed :-)
Thanks!!!
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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
22:46:05
| RE: engine build-up planning
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Keep the compression at no more than 9.5:1, don't go too radical on the cam duration and overlap (the RT+10 cam from Mopar is very PCM friendly and does show some good HP/TQ improvements), mild head work (port clean up and a 3-angle valve job) and some 1.6:1 roller rockers for less internal friction loss. Make sure you put a new oil pump in there though - Melling is a good choice on that one. Parts plus machine work shouldn't run you more than $2500-$3000. This leaves some room for a good TQ converter to help out with the new found HP/TQ - contact APS Precision for that...they're one of the best out there for Dodge's.
The cam's powerband should be somewhere from off-idle to 4500rpm. Anything more radical (2500-6000rpm) for high HP engines isn't going to do you any good off-road. You can run 10:1 compression but you'll need to be running Super unleaded fuel and a cam to match the higher compression.
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IB
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
23:19:27
| RE: engine build-up planning
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Great info! I'm printing it now. Just curious about 2 things: #1 How much hp/tq should I expect - ballpark. #2 Will these mods work well with my current mods - Superchips tuner, self-modded TB, self modded beer barrel (shaved about 2" per runner, and smoothed out here and there and removed some lousy casting, etc.; back when I fixed the belly pan leak), and KN filter with homebrewed CAI?
THANKS AGAIN!!!
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IB
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
23:22:33
| RE: engine build-up planning
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oh, and also I take it that tearing down and putting in a stroker crank isn't worh the $ compared to top end work? I sort of expected to be told to put in the 4" crank and bring my 318 to a 390. Is there replacement for displacement, hehe :-)
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hemichuck
Dodge Dakota
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2/07/2007
23:58:51
| RE: engine build-up planning
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You can build a 4 inch stroke 5.9 for very little money if you do it right.I have less than $1800 in mine including machine work.You can get a crank for around $400 and if you shop around you can get some pistons for under $300. Mopar Performance made a piston for the 5.9 that only came in std and .020 and I bought a set on e-bay for $140 in std and a set for $125 in .020.,I still have the std set.I ended up using Kieth Black pistons(paid $279) because I wanted a little taller compression height.5.9 magnum blocks are getting pretty common,I think I have 4 or 5 laying around.I ended up buying eagle rods(H beam)in my motor,they cost $175.
You dont need a 360 converter because you have to balance your bottom end so just use the 5.2 harmonic balancer and have the machine shop neutral balance your bottom end with mallory metal then you can just use your stock flexplate/flywheel off of the 5.2.
I agree with fasstdak about the cam,if you stay close to 500 lift you will be all right.The best part is that nobody will look at your truck and say hey thats a 408,I like to go to the track and dust a couple of mustangs and then stand in the staging lanes with my hood up and let them come look at the motor and give me that puzzeld look when I say No buddy its just a stock 5.2....Priceless!
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Fasstdak
Dodge Dakota
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2/08/2007
00:08:58
| RE: engine build-up planning
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Sorry...didn't mention the stroker crank in the post - it's worth it but does require a little more money for the machining work (clearance on the block - not a big deal though).
The converter was mentioned since you don't want to use an old converter with a new, higher powered motor. That's just a failure waiting to happen.
Get a new balancer as 100K+ miles on these balancers isn't pretty when they let go. The small amount of money spent is powerful insurance on your new investment.
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truck guy
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2007
10:21:05
| RE: engine build-up planning
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It sounds like you know your way around a motor. Like I said you'll save yourself ALOT of headachs if you buy a motor already done. Go online and look for HYPO motors ready to run. You'll find that 4000.00 will buy you just what you want. Now, if this is something you've never done before and just want to do it just "because" then take your time. If LOWEND power is what you want go with the 360 for your starting point. You'll find it will cost you less money to make the same power in a 360 than a 318. In this case BIGGER is BETTER. It will take less effort to produce the HP/TQ you want with the 360. The less mods you do the easier it will be to run the motor day to day.
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IB
Dodge Dakota
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2/10/2007
11:47:31
| RE: engine build-up planning
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you make a fine point. I have built smaller project engines before and it is sometimes more fun planning then working on it, haha. I'm also not in the same shape that I was, having been in a bad accident 2 years ago. The thing about doing a DIY build-up that appeals to me is that I'll have several weeks off in the summer, and it might be a nice project. I'll consider the recommendation before I jump into anything.
Thanks :-)
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truck guy
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2007
11:07:09
| RE: engine build-up planning
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If you have the money and the time, go for it. I would keep one thing in mind, all the power you add could get you into trouble. Remember the street is not a racetrack. The POLICE don't like it when you blow past them doin 120MPH. Have fun and good luck.
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IB
Dodge Dakota
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2/11/2007
15:38:17
| RE: engine build-up planning
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fast? hahahaha. Even at 600hp in this truck my motorcycles are faster :) I've learned restraint... usually :-)
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Thumper
Dodge Dakota
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2/12/2007
10:03:41
| RE: engine build-up planning
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I hear you on the motorcycle part I have a Honda 929. I had a bad wreck last year haven't been back on...yet. Now back to your post i have a 408 built, stroked, forged and arped...every last little bolt. I love the engine all 650hp now mine did run into a 2 year project through but if your dakota is in fine running shape now then it shouldnt matter. Like Truck Guy said it would be easier to buy one built but if you enjoy going carbed and builbing engines like me then have fun. My engine is a late 70's 360 and the motor mounts and tranny mounts where a little tricky. I had trouble with the headers too.
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